"Puppy Paws" and other faults that make you crazy!

[KBC]

I was thinking about this the other day in my lesson, first lesson on new horse, fairly green horse, I had my test ride, and a couple of toodles around the place before this.

We do lots of walk work, to get both of us comfortable, but want to end on sone trot work…

So, when she asks us to trot, grown up me says, just ask, leg on, sit up, off we go.

Child me, still lurking in there says “shorten your reins and trot” because I heard that every lesson as a kid.

Post Accident me, worries that the most Mellow horse in the world might do something stupid, and agrees with child, “best take a hold”

We get told to walk.

“Now don’t change anything, sit still, ask for the transition, and go”

Grown up says. “Leave everything ALONE”

Looks down in horror, because child and PA me are shortening the damn reins…it’s as frustrating as hell, to me, to my instructor, and most of all to my horse…but it appears to originate somewhere under conscious thought, so need to work even harder to over ride that old programming.

[Salty]

@angelssix

You won’t get any argument out of me there, I wish I could find someone that was able and willing to do that for me!

I have tried & tried, to no avail, to find someone to do longe work with me. When my friends & I did this for one another, we routinely got 8s or better on position/use of aids. Where I live now, no one seems interested.

[no.stirrups]

Open fingers, puppy paws, piano hands, etc. are very hard to correct because in most cases I’ve observed the coach/trainer/instructor only advises the student to fix their hands. The problem actually originates much farther up. Most riders who exhibit these don’t have elastic elbows either, so closed hands really ARE hard hands! So elbows have to be fixed before hands can be fixed, or at the same time. But you can’t have elastic elbows if your arms aren’t hanging correctly from the shoulder, and your arm won’t be hanging correctly from your shoulder if your posture is slouched. If you have slouched posture it may be that your incorrect hip angle is partly to blame. All of that may come back to the saddle not being a good fit.
So go easy on those people with poor hands. They may be really trying but working against a system that is stacked against them and they don’t even know it. It takes a really good instructor, or sometimes a saddle fitter, to get to the root of the problem for a lasting solution.

[SuzieQNutter]

@angelssix

You won’t get any argument out of me there, I wish I could find someone that was able and willing to do that for me!

It is not that easy.

I started hubby on the lunge rein over 10 years ago. I lunged him daily on Sim.

As hubby was a beginner. Sim was too green and a TB and we were in a 50 acre paddock and my ulterior motive, that when I rode Sim and knew he was not enough horse for me so I wanted hubby to bond.

So the other day I ask hubby to lunge me on Stars. DISASTER. He had no control. He made Stars buck.

I complained to my instructor!
He said it does not work that way. That is learning by osmosis. He needs me to teach him and Stars is not the horse for him to learn with, although Stars never puts a hoof wrong with me on the lunge.

The first time on Sim, I did a lot of yelling! That is because he frightened the h##l out of me. It is different from lunging a horse. You want a quiet horse. Sim know his voice commands, he kept using that darn lunge whip and Sim was already not quiet from him nagging him in walk with it. I got him to drop the whip and use voice alone.

The second time was a lot more successful and I actually had a canter in the lunge and didn’tdo any yelling. Maybe a third time today. Hubby has the day off.

[angelssix]

@no.stirrups

Open fingers, puppy paws, piano hands, etc. are very hard to correct because in most cases I’ve observed the coach/trainer/instructor only advises the student to fix their hands. The problem actually originates much farther up. Most riders who exhibit these don’t have elastic elbows either, so closed hands really ARE hard hands! So elbows have to be fixed before hands can be fixed, or at the same time. But you can’t have elastic elbows if your arms aren’t hanging correctly from the shoulder, and your arm won’t be hanging correctly from your shoulder if your posture is slouched. If you have slouched posture it may be that your incorrect hip angle is partly to blame. All of that may come back to the saddle not being a good fit.
So go easy on those people with poor hands. They may be really trying but working against a system that is stacked against them and they don’t even know it. It takes a really good instructor, or sometimes a saddle fitter, to get to the root of the problem for a lasting solution.

Interesting perspective. I am going to talk to my instructor about that. She is also a judge and I respect her insight. I will ask her if she has a biomechanics person she can refer me to. I know for a fact that I have been told quite a bit to soften my elbows and I seem to hold the reins correctly, but I do let the reins slip too much, which makes me constantly take up the reins.
I developed THAT little habit from lesson horses that rooted horribly. Even on a long rein, I rode one that was just so hard to ride I finally told the instructor I was never getting on a horse like that again. He had developed a habit of rooting, and when that didn’t work, he would wait until you took up the reins and yank so hard he would literally pull me out of the saddle! I looked like one of those little kids on ponies that stop to eat grass, it was just nasty. I am not a tiny thing, either. He was yanking me around like I was nothing. He was a miserable cur. The underside of his neck was so overdeveloped he looked deformed. Why would anyone think that putting someone that was trying to learn on a horse like that is a good idea?

[Scribbler]

@angelssix

Interesting perspective. I am going to talk to my instructor about that. She is also a judge and I respect her insight. I will ask her if she has a biomechanics person she can refer me to. I know for a fact that I have been told quite a bit to soften my elbows and I seem to hold the reins correctly, but I do let the reins slip too much, which makes me constantly take up the reins.
I developed THAT little habit from lesson horses that rooted horribly. Even on a long rein, I rode one that was just so hard to ride I finally told the instructor I was never getting on a horse like that again. He had developed a habit of rooting, and when that didn’t work, he would wait until you took up the reins and yank so hard he would literally pull me out of the saddle! I looked like one of those little kids on ponies that stop to eat grass, it was just nasty. I am not a tiny thing, either. He was yanking me around like I was nothing. He was a miserable cur. The underside of his neck was so overdeveloped he looked deformed. Why would anyone think that putting someone that was trying to learn on a horse like that is a good idea?

You can’t ride a horse like that until you can lift through the ribcage and carry your hands. My mare doesn’t root but she dives for grass like a Thelwell pony! I put my returning rider sister on her and told her to sit in, engage her core, carry her hands, and just pay attention to when a dive was coming. She couldn’t let her hands rest on the withers or tilt forward.

Turns out sister has done enough Pilates over the years that she could actually manage this.

On another note, the reason elbows are so important is that otherwise you cannot give the reins. If your default posture is stick arms then you can’t give the reins other than by opening your hands or slipping the reins.

[sheltoneb]

@Scribbler

You can’t ride a horse like that until you can lift through the ribcage and carry your hands. My mare doesn’t root but she dives for grass like a Thelwell pony! I put my returning rider sister on her and told her to sit in, engage her core, carry her hands, and just pay attention to when a dive was coming. She couldn’t let her hands rest on the withers or tilt forward.

Turns out sister has done enough Pilates over the years that she could actually manage this.

On another note, the reason elbows are so important is that otherwise you cannot give the reins. If your default posture is stick arms then you can’t give the reins other than by opening your hands or slipping the reins.

This is not always possible. I had a 16 hand, 1500 lbs qaurter horse with a long, musclular neck. At the time, I was 5’ 3" and 120 lbs. The barn owner insisted if I did this when he dived down to eat, he wouldn’t be able to get his head down. Instead I pulled a muscle in my back. She then got on him to try. Afterwards she admitted it was a bad idea on him.

What worked better was to slip one rein and only hold one. This pulled his head to one side removing the leverage advantage he had.

[Scribbler]

@sheltoneb

This is not always possible. I had a 16 hand, 1500 lbs qaurter horse with a long, musclular neck. At the time, I was 5’ 3" and 120 lbs. The barn owner insisted if I did this when he dived down to eat, he wouldn’t be able to get his head down. Instead I pulled a muscle in my back. She then got on him to try. Afterwards she admitted it was a bad idea on him.

What worked better was to slip one rein and only hold one. This pulled his head to one side removing the leverage advantage he had.

Oh that is very clever! I will try that on marsey next time we ride through a field!

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

[angelssix]

@Scribbler

Oh that is very clever! I will try that on marsey next time we ride through a field!

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

Indeed! Another tool in the box! Thanks @sheltoneb .

[SuzieQNutter]

Another thing you can do on a bad one is add grass reins. A piece of baling twine from the ‘d’ ring to the bit long enough so they just can’t reach the grass.

As Scribbler said it is your stomach muscles, not your back muscles that stop a horse diving.

Your thumb is the one that stops the reins getting longer.