"Puppy Paws" and other faults that make you crazy!

The really interesting thing about riding position is that quite often the visible “flaw” is not the cause but rather the result of something else.

I have a good friend who is a capable, brave, physically fit, experienced rider, with a fair training tool box, a sticky seat, and a calming effect on hot horses. She’s actually all around a good rider. But she has perennial trouble with her leg going backwards when she uses it, and not keeping her heel down, and sometimes tipping forward. It messes with the picture she presents and sometimes makes her look like a much less competent rider than she really is.

Her problem is very mild scoliosis leading to some hip imbalance and some surprising limits on how she can move her leg in the saddle. She was only diagnosed with the scoliosis in her late 30s though it’s clearly been a lifetime thing that she’s always compensated for. Watching her try to work through this with chiro, seat lessons, and saddle fit has driven home to me how we don’t always know what’s going on with our own bodies let alone other people’s bodies, that gets in the way of good form in the saddle. She has made improvements in the past 5 years and those improvements have made her horse go better for sure. But simply shouting heels down! at her does nothing to fix it.

Anyhow I think quite often persistent visible errors in rider form are actually caused by problems in the torso core, which the rider might not even know about.

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Years ago in a clinic lesson the instructor kept telling me not to jiggle my right hand (he thought I was trying to play the bit a little in my horse’s mouth) and I kept saying “I’m NOT jiggling my hand”. This was not something I typically had trouble with. I finally modified my reply to say that I was not consciously jiggling my hand and he replied it was my hand and I should be able to control it. And when I looked at it, it WAS in fact jiggling and I couldn’t keep it still to save myself. Very aggravating. I don’t remember now how it came about, but some weeks later, I realized that the instability was in my right shoulder (which had been sore and for a time weaker than my left shoulder for an unknown reason quite some time before all of this occurred). If I squared my shoulders up, my right hand miraculously stayed still. I generally have good posture when I ride and a little forward roll of my right shoulder had gone unnoticed. That lesson stayed with me such that I now think of trying to operate my arms and hands from my shoulders and my legs and seat from my hips i.e. if I need to take my hands forward some, I push them out from my shoulder through the length of my arm rather than just thinking to take my hand forward and have the rest of my arm follow. Definite difference in upper body stability when pushing from the shoulder.

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Thanks for noticing / reminding us all that thinness does not equal fitness. And by the same token, heaviness doesn’t equal a lack of fitness

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THIS.

THIS. I am starting to get into biomechanics, it’s sooo intriguing. I do think there is a lot to be learned here.

Do you ever video any of your rides? I wonder if that helps or hinders? I always cringe when I see video of myself, I am truly my own worst enemy.

One thing I have noticed for me personally, it the wider the horse, the worse my riding is. Has anyone else noticed this? Discuss!

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My mare has a big barrel and wide back. I actually feel very secure on her. But she does put me in a chair seat in every saddle in a way more flat sided horses do not. It is also difficult to get a visually long dressage leg on a big barreled horse because your leg doesn’t hang down as straight. And your heels are nowhere near the horse so if you want to use spurs it really messes with your leg position.

That said I prefer a big bodied horse.

As far as videoing yourself, all I can say is get over it. All good athletes need to develop a somewhat objective approach to their own performance. Ideally you should be able to sit down with your coach and review your video frame by frame like you were watching a stranger. This is hard for most of us, especially since women are taught to be globally ashamed of how their body looks and of their very existence in the world. Even pretty teen girls taking endless selfies are battling thus. I remember when I did a bit of radio how hard it was initially to listen to recordings of my own voice, but of course I had to, editing interviews or reviewing shows.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹When I finally rode a dressage test and had the judges score card and the video to look at over and over at home, it was extremely interesting and gave me tips things that were quick fixes as well as insight into some more fundamental issues with that horse (every horse has something).

So I would say, get more video and learn to watch it objectively. Figure out how to mentally block the things that are irrelevant to your performance like hating your helmet or thinking all breeches are unflattering to most adults :slight_smile: and look at position and try to remember how things feel. Also look for the moments, which may be brief, when it all comes together nicely and try to nurture a muscle memory of what that felt like too.
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Angelssix. A problem with my mum riding Vinnie. Vinnie was going out and nearly over the logs in the arena. I told Mum to take her inside leg off.

I don’t have my inside leg on.

Over the next few minutes this exchange was repeated several times.

In the end I had to say I know you don’t have your inside leg on, but I actually want you to physically take your inside leg off her and take it away from her side.

Vinnie went straight.

It turned out Vinnie was too wide for Mum and in later years Mum need a hip operation for a new hip. This was probably the first sign of it, but 30 years later they were still saying there was nothing wrong with her hips so she took it off her private medibank.

She then had to wait a year to go back on it for the operation to cover it and by then she was in agony.

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I am giggling because my new guy keeps heading in weird directions all over the place right now and I can’t wait to mess with my instructor and tell her “he’s too wide, I can’t get my legs off and that’s why he is all over the place!” She will know I am messing with her, but in a way, she will also know I am serious, because I rode my boarding facility owner’s Arab and had absolutely no issue getting her to do anything. When I first started our lesson I used my leg on her and she dang near shot out from under me, LMAO! I have gotten so used to the wide bodies, I guess.:smiley:

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Calling this habit/riding fault “Puppy Paws” drives me crazy, tbh. Never heard that before and I’ll never repeat it :lol: no idea why it bugs me but it does.

One of the main faults in a rider that drives me a wee bit crazy is a nagging leg and/or hand. I’ve been helping a friend and her horse was getting quite pissy. I told her to ditch the spurs, stop nagging with her leg and using so much hand and see what happens. The horse goes better now. I am of the belief that you don’t need to spur/move your leg every other step to keep forward motion. Surprisingly this seems to be the norm though based off other horses I’ve ridden recently. It’s like peddling a bike up a hill to nowhere. I’ve never had any of my own horses be so dull. I know it makes some people feel “safe” to have a push ride, but it’s not for me!

I really emphasize riding with one’s brain and not braun. Yes you need strength, absolutely, but I’ve seen people try to physically force horses through issues or into a “shape” of sorts. I was riding a stiff horse recently and was told to muscle her into a type of “frame” but I chose to do some exercises and soon she offered softness and loosened her back on her own. No force. She became sensitive to my aids and a delight to ride. I also feel as though people just don’t listen to the horse sometimes. Not that you let them have their way, but tune in a bit to work together.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

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Yeah, I don’t worry about other people’s position flaws generally. The only ones that “make me crazy” are those that are obviously irritating the horse.

Okay, guilty admission: I tend to giggle at the folks who nod their heads like a bobblehead doll! (Then I remind myself that I probably couldn’t ride that huge-gaited beast!)

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In the early 60’s, in my early teens, I took riding lessons from Miss Baron at Kendal Green Riding Stable in Weston,Ma. She rode right next to me. I had the reins (double - Pelham bridle) and was on a lead line. Whenever my hands went horizontal, she’d tap them with her crop. " No washer woman scrubbing hands!" she’d admonish me. I incurred a number of other problems from her instruction, but scrubbing woman hands wasn’t one of them.

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Thank you. What are puppy paws?

I think the same as pram pushing. Turning your hands so the thumbs are not on top.

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The only thing hand-wise that really bugs me now (also because I used to do it) is this weird wrists bent in, like two fingers holding the reins, arms all over the place that I see some western trainers do to try to be “light”. It basically looks like they are picking up two used tissues.

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Rail birds take the joy out of riding for a lot of people, without doing a single thing to improve anyone’s riding.

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I do this, but I started by riding stock horse and there is a tendency to “float” the reins and maintain very little contact in that style of riding. After showing from age 9-24, then taking years off only to make my return to USEF hunters and then later dressage, I can tell you it’s a hard, hard habit to break.

I truly wish I could stop doing this. What helps me is to ride a horse that absolutely required connection that will keep my hands honest.

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I have been told that there is a school of thought that people think they are being “kind” to their horses by keeping the hand open while riding. I first saw it with instructors that would nag me about holding the reins properly and then when I would watch them ride I would go “WTF?” so maybe it is just something that people start doing inadvertently and don’t even realize they are doing it?

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I try to keep in mind that we’re all trying our best and that no one in dressage wants to hurt their horse. That said, the only thing that truly makes me cringe is stuff that is obviously unfair or downright abusive to the animal. Even people who have been riding for a very long time can still do some nasty stuff. We all lose our patience sometimes and horses are very forgiving creatures. But when people are in lessons kicking and pulling at the same time, on and on and on, oooof. I cringe at that stuff.

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Beginners pull when they kick. Telling the horse to go stop. This only goes away with instruction and should be on a lesson horse, not a real horse.

This is why beginners should be started on the lunge with the reins attached to a lunging cavesson and not to the bit.

You won’t get any argument out of me there, I wish I could find someone that was able and willing to do that for me!