Puppy with Elbow Dysplasia:(

Hi all! After my puppy began limping at four months (originally diagnosed as pano) I finally got a diagnosis Friday. Fragmented Coronoid Process :frowning: the limp isn’t terrible, but he has no life at this point because if I push his activity level at all he is sore in the evenings. So we leash walk out to the bathroom and he’s a house dog. The orthopedic surgeon is recommending surgery ASAP to remove the loose fragments in his elbow because he says they cause a lot of joint degeneration the longer they stay. I am thinking it is worth trying the surgery. The surgeon says it helps 80-85% of dogs with this condition, but that there will be lifelong arthritis with or without surgery and surgery will just delay and lessen the degree. His lameness has getting better since the initial onset, but it’s never gone away. And as a horse person, I noticed even before he started limping that he always points that paw.

Has as anyone here been through this? He’s only 8 months and I’m worried about putting him through this, but he’s sore some part of everyday, so I feel like I need to at least try.

Btw, he is a lab and he is also from 5 generations of clear elbows, so that’s also annoying. Ugh.

First of all, I hope you’ve informed your breeder. This serious dysplasia at such a young age may make them want to reevaluate their breeding program. The tough thing about OFA is that unless you evaluate every puppy in every litter, not just the ones that you use for breeding - you may miss things. For example, it could be possible to have an OFA good bitch from a litter of 8 where 6 were actually dysplastic. But it’s fairly impractical for breeders to evaluate ALL offspring for all possible genetic conditions. But telling breeders about affected dogs is important.

I wouldn’t be afraid to “put him through” surgery. He has (hopefully) 12+ years more to live and the surgery should improve the quality of his life. I had a dog with two knee surgeries on the same knee - the 2nd one when he was 10 years old. It wasn’t fun but it was definitely worth doing - the quality of his life improved dramatically enough to make the “recovery” seem like a distant memory.

I don’t have any experience but it sounds like you’re in good hands if you’ve already gone the specialist route. If they are respected, I would trust their recommendation.

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I had a dog with OCD in both elbows. She was older, 16ish months I think. She had loose floating chunks of cartilage in the joint, which were removed endoscopically. The surgeon was all doom and gloom, saying she would eventually need elbow replacements (there were some in the works at the time that didn’t really pan out). She was very sore for 6 weeks after surgery, and then, like majic, the next day, she was sound. The only problems after that were at times when the weather was very bad for 3 or more days in a row and she couldn’t get out for a walk. She would need an anti-inflammatory for a couple of days

If it is possible for your dog’s issue, I would go with endoscopic surgery. I second telling the breeder. Did he come with any type of warranty? I have a friend that breeds labs who would refund the purchase price if it were a puppy she produced.

Yes, I’ve informed the breeder. She is shocked and has offered to take him back, but I don’t feel comfortable doing that for a number of reasons. She’s a very well respected breeder and I don’t hold her accountable at all. Sometimes poop just happens. I threw myself a pity party as to why did this happen, OFA’s, fed the right food, didn’t over exercise, etc. he told me that Since the gene for elbows isn’t identified yet, OFA of the parents is best we can do. He also informed me there are a whole bunch of other theories, like gestational disturbances, nutritional, etc.

My surgeon actually told me that he prefers to do the surgery open as he finds he can do a better job and gets a better result than when he does it with the arthroscope. He said he will most likely need lifelong supplements and adequan, which is fine and I’m willing to do whatever necessary to give him the best possible shot.

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Yes, sometimes poop happens, even when breeders do their best. I am glad they offered to take back the puppy but like you, I wouldn’t be able to do it. I had a dog bred for show that great way over the breed standard. The breeder offered to take him back but he was my baby. No hard feelings; he was a great pet and lived to be 16.5!

Fingers crossed for the surgery. No advice other than definitely follow post-op instructions to a tee. Not sure how it would compare to cruciate surgery, for example, but my surgeon told us that the post-op care would impact the long term success.

That makes sense if he thinks he can do a better job doing the surgery that way. Best of luck to you.I hope he does as good as my girl did.

It is great that he offered to take him back. There are breeders that let you keep the puppy and give a refund, or another puppy when you are ready. That makes a lot more sense to me as people do get attached to their pets.

One of my labs had both of his stifles done when he was about 16 months. Surgeon recommended TPLO, so that’s what we did. Had X pens in every room and we were very diligent about his return to “work.” He lived another 12 years with no problems. We did tell the breeder and last year we bought another pup from her.
Your dog is so young that the surgery should go well. Good luck.

My IW Tori had bilateral elbow dysplasia and had surgery at I think about 7 months to remove th huge joint “rats” as we called them, because they were bigger than joint mice. She did well after the surgery, and did well with the rehab- we did lots of that including swimming. She ended up fairly sound, although always had restricted range of motion in front, so she could not do the double suspension gallop which is typical for the breed, but she could gallop pretty fast. She could not jump very well, but well enough to do stairs pretty easily and could jump onto a high bed ( human bed!).

She was on joint supplements and meloxicam every day of her life, but tolerated that well. She did have one bout of septic arthritis in an elbow which was very painful (extremely high fever), but she recovered from that. Laser treatments seemed to help her quite a bit.

I just lost her recently to osteosarcoma in the distal radius at age seven.

I bred her (I mean produced her, she herself was never bred). Her dam had xrayed clear of elbow dysplasia, but her sire has one elbow that to the surprise of the xraying vet because he thought it looked fine, did not pass OFA. This male has sired numerous litters (nine litters, 59 offspring) and Tori was the only one who ever had clinical symptoms. Now though, I am very aware of this issue in our breed- (about 12% are affected with elbow dysplasia although hip dysplasia is extremely rare), and I have not allowed her brother to be used, although people wanted to even though they knew it was an issue. This is a breed with a very small gene pool and many other serious health issues- cardiac problems, bloat, pneumonia, cancer (especially osteosarcoma, lymphoma, and hemangiosarcoma).

Tori’s dam and her litter sister have both won our National Specialty- the only mother-daughter to have ever have done so- so it hasn’t been easy to keep people from using Tori’s brother- I co-own him- but when I explain all I have been through with Tori it does have an impact. The brother was Winner’s Dog at the National one year and Award of Merit last year so it is not an easy thing.

It did limit what we could do- we got a CD but could not go on to Open as I wouldn’t have wanted her to jump even the Preferred height jump. We did quite a bit of training for Tracking but even this became uncomfortable for her, with the head-down posture for a very tall dog- a shorter dog could have probably done it and been fine.

Anyway I think the surgery is your only choice for pain control. I think the rehab and continuing care is very important.

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Thank you. Its good to know there have been some good outcomes because Dr. Google has scared the crap out of me!! The first sign of a problem was at about 3 months, he was sound, but when he’d sit he’d bend at the wrists. He still does it. Ive heard it’s a typical ED sign. It’s tough because right now he is looking pretty good. I actually had an appointment with my regular vet yesterday who wants to go over the surgeon’s and radiologist’s findings with some colleagues before I do surgery. He said he doesn’t have any experience with dogs having ED surgery and he wants to get more information. I just hope I make the right choice for him.

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A friend with her 4th? golden had crap hips and then developed showed symptoms of ED (the strain of compensating for the hips was enough to exaggerate the ED). They ended up doing the elbow first then hips but as long as you commit to the PT, it’s a good outcome (She went through VOSM, everyone in that group of dog folks has gone through them for ortho work, advantage of living in MD.) The rest of the litter was fantastic, it was the first time those two dogs were paired but the breeder decided not to repeat the pair and may decide to not breed back the mom again to be safe.

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Our old dog that we lost last March had juvenile arthritis in his L elbow and showed lameness early on. He then ended up fracturing that elbow chasing a coyote and it healed. He lived on Meloxicam and joint supplements as well (adequan did nothing for him) for years. Ultimately it was stenosis of the spine that got him at 13. At 95 lbs that was pretty good for the old man. He was one tough dog though never an athlete in any way shape or form.

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I wouldn’t repeat that breeding either. I think a dog’s hips would have to be really bad to make elbow dysplasia bad enough to require surgery. Lots of dogs with clinically “failing” hips by xray show no symptoms. A puppy with bad hips and elbows would definitely make me wonder if the rest of the litter was fantastic or just asymptomatic - Unless they were xrayed to know for sure, the whole litter might have been mildly dysplastic but not symptomatic.

This is one reason that dysplasia is still common. It’s hard to screen it out completely just with xrays, but at least they are a start. There are a lot of people in my breed that run field trials and say “a dysplastic dog couldn’t run hour stakes like that” which is simply not true. A fit dog with mild dysplasia and bad conformation can do lots of things. And without xrays they may be breeding OFA Fair x OFA Fair and getting litters of half dysplastic puppies - but don’t even know it.

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They all went to performance homes so we’ll see, They’re all in the awkward adolescent stage. I know a couple were had xrays done to check but not all. My current sheltie worked sheep on a broken leg for years (broke and “healed” while a stray, no visible limp so we didn’t catch it until she had an abdominal xray because of vomiting) - I definitely agree dogs push through way more than we think.

(also realized I said breed back, instead of straight breed at all, whoops)

Thanks everyone. We have a tentative date for Monday. I’m a wreck, but surgeon feels this is his best shot to have a “normal” life. He’s been on exercise restriction for 4 months and I feel that he’s missed some socialization because of it.

Because he’s been 95% sound, i keep going back in forth in my head questioning the diagnosis, but then I remind myself the surgeon didn’t say “these x rays are vague, let’s do a CT.” So there must be enough radio graphic evidence that makes him feel confident enough to do surgery. I do t think the fragment is visible on x Ray, but the “blunting” of the Coronoid is.

Please send me all your juju.

Ill keep you posted. Eeeeeeep.

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Hugs from a fellow owner of an ortho challenged puppy. I’m familiar with the disappointment, second guessing, and anxiety about their future - it’s not fun. Good luck Monday! I’ll be thinking of y’all.

Thank you. I spoke to my regular veterinarian last night. He was very kind and assured me that I won’t be going through this alone in managing him long term. He agreed with the surgeon’s diagnosis after seeing the most recent x rays. He said my dog is unique to their practice as most dogs don’t get this diagnosis until they’ve had off and on lameness for months or a couple years. He said the good thing about our case is I’ve been persistent and didn’t give up on a diagnosis. Given all these factors he feels surgery is worth a shot as it still leaves other therapies on the table such a stem cell. I just hate the idea of him being in lifelong pain.

I appreciate all all the support and I’ll let you all know how Monday goes.

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Update! After freaking out all day the surgeon called me around 3:15 to let me know surgery went very well. He said there were no surprises and he was able to remove the fragments (2) and smooth the rest of the Coronoid to hopefully prevent it breaking off again. He said the expensive puppy was waking up well from anesthesia and that I can call tomorrow to set up a time to come pick him up and go through the discharge instructions.

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Glad everything went well! Jingles for a speedy and uneventful recovery!

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Thank you! He’s been doing really well, considering. The hard part is keeping home tame.

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Hope your puppy is doing well with his recovery! I have been down this road with my current blue heeler 3 times! I researched my breeder so meticulously and tried to make sure that I was going to hopefully get a genetically sound puppy. My past heelers had all had some sort of genetic issue at some point in their life be it bad elbows, deafness, or progressive retinal atrophy. Since this was the first heeler I was purchasing from a breeder vs. an ad at the feed store or from a friend I figured I was going to avoid these issues. NOT!

My current puppy started limping at around 4 months old as well and was diagnosed with pano too! Luckily I am an LVT and used to work for a really good orthopedic surgeon so I took her rads to him and he diagnosed an FCP in her left elbow. She went straight to surgery and he took out the big fragment and I thought my surgery fun was over. About 3 weeks into recovery my husband was watching her and let her on the bed. She decided it would be fun to launch off the bed to chase the cat and injured the left elbow resulting in him having to go back in with the scope and remove another small chip of bone! At this point I knew we were done with surgery. NO! About 6 weeks after her second surgery on her left elbow she started limping on her right one which had looked just fine on her initial radiographs and CT scan. She went in for her 3rd surgery to fix the right elbow FCP when she was around 8 months old! Poor dog had been under anesthesia 4 times (3 elbows surgeries, 1 spay) at under 1 year of age! It took her almost 12 weeks to fully recover and not limp. She gets a daily joint supplement and I keep a supply of Galliprant around just in case. I get really nervous letting her play rough with other dogs because I am worried she will hurt something!

I informed her breeder about these issues like others have posted above and she offered to take her back and give me a puppy from another litter. I could not do that. I am attached to my little girl.