Push Ride vs. Pull Ride - Nature or Nurture?

[tidy_rabbit]

I think, all things being equal and the horse is given a good/consistent training program, that a horse who is strong around a course is always going strong around a course.

I have one who is a STRONG puller and another one who is light as a feather and NEVER pulls, both grew up with me from the age of 6 months. Both have been like this from day one under saddle.

I think it is a bit naive to think that you can change the core nature of a horse. I think you can utilize a lot of great training techniques, dressage etc, but no amount of dressage is going to take my super strong horse and turn him light as a feather around a jumper course.

And on the flip side, I don’t think you could ever make my light horse a puller, it’s just not him. You might make him a stopper, but you would never make him a puller, he just doesn’t roll that way.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=vicarious;7503353]
Ah! Yes! By why pay a trainer or buy a book, when so many on the COTH patiently, or not, answer these same questions over and over.

Have you checked on Horse Care for rainrot remedies? :lol:[/QUOTE]

Dont be silly, been in this for years and learned long ago treating for ulcers and using a Himalayan trained Majikal Ultrabalance certified barefoot hoof technical specialist clears rain rot right up.

[OneGrayPony]

OMG, one of the Kool aid drinkers at my barn responded to my (admittedly offhand) remark that I had to have the vet out because my gelding started swapping behind going left…by asking me if he wore shoes.

He is currently barefoot.

I just stared at her.

(I should add, as a certified BUA, I know her implication was that his shoes were causing the issue, instead of his arthritic hock/stifle)

[Montanas_Girl]

I know I’m pulling this thread out of nowhere, but I just thought it might be interesting to point out that my “push” mare, years later, is heading off to a working western trainer for finshing. My “pull” gelding, on the other hand, ultimately earned multiple USEF and KHJA year-end awards before I retired him for metabolic (Cushing’s Disease) reasons. In my experience, it appears that “push vs. pull” is very much genetic/inborn in nature. I’m so happy that we have so many options for experimental data, even if the stud is a bit scomplicated.

[KitKat987]

I vote for nature, just based on the experience with my current two horses. Both are the same age, 10. I bought both as babies, and started and have been their rider this entire time. I’ve had a couple different trainers along the way, but my trainers have never done more than sat on them from time to time. Both horses have been on the same feed plan, lived in the same environment, had the same handling and experiences, and basically lived the same life as each other.

And I don’t think they could possibly be any different than each other. One is a definite pull ride, always has been. The other I’m constantly pushing to jumps. I prefer the pull ride for sure. The ‘push’ ride is a feisty little sh!t disturber who can’t keep his nose in his own business to save his life, shows his enthusiasm by bucking, and is perhaps the most opinionated horse on the planet. In the ring I’m always ‘pushing’ him, however out on the roads/trails, he’s super forward, not as in i’ve got to get home, but as in whoohoo lets go see the world kind of way. The pull ride on the other hand, is a big soft cuddle bug, the most chilled out relaxed horse who could happily just let you hug and pet him all day long and he would lap up the attention. He eats at a snails pace and is never in a rush to get anywhere. But put him into a ring with jumps and he gets excited and super full of energy and drags me to the jumps. Out on the trails/roads however he is back to his super chilled self and loves to just stop and take in the scenery.

[Lady_Eboshi]

I think a lot of it is breed-dependent, that some horses have a more “forward” tendency than others. Historically this is thought to be in proportion to the amount of “hot” (Arabian or TB) blood they carry, and I’ve found it to be true.

You can get into strange situations with exotic out-crosses; I once had a Cleveland Bay/TB cross who was like riding a TB in a WB body–forward, reactive, hot, AND stubborn like his drafty side. He also had “landing gear” issues over fences because he “stood under,” and I wound up selling him for a dressage horse.

Another example is what happened to the Morgan breed (always “good usin’ hosses” in the past) some of whom became hotter than pistols after large infusions of ASB blood. I’ve also known 3 Appaloosa crosses who were, bar none, the worst “knotheads” I’ve ever seen, while growing up we had at least 5 pure Appaloosa schoolies who were dreamboats!

Nurture (correct breaking and training to the aids, and appropriate feeding) are obviously huge factors, too–BUT, be very, VERY hesitant to buy that horse on CraigsList or DreamHorse who’s a “too good looking to be true” for the price mixed-breed. Some blood just doesn’t “nick” at all, and those problems you can’t fix because the horse is literally fighting himself.

[Rel6]

I think it is much more nurture than nature.

I think maybe 75% of the time, a hot forward riding horse is that way because of nurture and not nature.

I have seen so many horses come to my trainer’s program as “go” types. They have varied from well trained but very forward eventers and jumpers to mishandled OTTBs off the track who are running and nervous under saddle.

Out of probably the 175 horses I have seen go through her facility, I can think of maybe 10 that stayed as forward, go, hotter rides after being given tons of turnout and low key jobs. I think most horses, if they lived outside 24/7 and were given a low key job, would go from hot rides to push rides.

I am NOT saying that anything hot/forward his been mistreated/not given enough turnout/etc. When I was managing a show jumping barn, a lot of those horses were hotter and forward. They went to a show or a jump school and were on their toes, ready and eager to perform. But at home, hacking around the ring or a field, they were pretty much all what I would describe as “push” rides. All the well trained “hot” horses I have ridden have ridden that way because they have been trainer to be forward, they have eager personalities, and they genuinely enjoy their jobs. Not a bad thing at all!

I’ve ridden event horses who I needed big spurs on to get them active and engaged on the flat at home and then were certainly forward cross country. I’ve ridden fox hunters who do walk/trot lessons at home and then hunt first flight in a gag bit.

I guess my barn’s unique situation made me think a lot of it is nurture and environment instead of nature. I just saw so many horses come in jacked up, scary hot under saddle (as well as hot, well trained performance horses who needed a step down job), who after getting turned out 24/7 and doing easy lessons a few times a week, settled in to a new routine and became some very quiet, lazy horses.

I am NOT saying that 24/7 turn out and a low key job is the best fit for every horse, just that I have seen it drastically alter how a horse rides under saddle. In fact, one of the horses I think of that is still hot and forward is a mare that was donated after a long career as an UL eventer. Every ride on her is like she is back cross country - she is forward, bold yet responsive. She probably would be much happier still being an eventer, but she wouldn’t have stayed sound.

So personally, I think nurture/environment/rider expectations have the biggest component to it and that the number of horses that are truly “hot” is actually a lot smaller than one would think. There are horse that have it in their nature, because I’ve seen horses raised on the farm the exact same way and home out hot and forward, but there have been so few that I think nurture is such a big part of it.

But perhaps nature breeds a personality and athleticism that lends itself to upper level training, where a horse is going to be encourage to be more forward (thinking specifically of show jumping and eventing here.)