Don´t do it… I have 5 horses, 4 of them are barefoot… And even if they perform at higher levels they will not get shoes if they don’t need it. Its more expensive and its healthier for the horse without them. And the rider makes the horse move not the shoes…
Oh and my 5th horse is a 21 year old polo horse which I got last year and which had shoes all his live… So I did not want to change that. But she tends to loose shoes so I am calling the farrier all the time about that… I tell you barefoot is a lot less hassle…
[QUOTE=tinyrider;7970099]
So… then I talked to my trimmer about it. She said that it’s not as simple as slapping shoes on him and seeing if I notice a difference, and taking them off if I don’t. She said that the trim to put shoes on him is going to be different than the trim she does to keep him barefoot. And once the shoes are on, she would recommend waiting at least 5-6 weeks before pulling them so that he gets some new growth and she can trim them back to the balanced and barefoot condition they are in now. And even then, she cautioned it could take 2-3 trim cycles (at 5 weeks each) before she has him completely back to where he was before shoes.
So what to do. This little experiment could end up costing 4 months of messing with his feet. [/QUOTE]
I call BS. Besides ordinary pleasure/trail horses, I’ve also had keep-at-home Morgan and ASB show horses with show shoes go from shoes to barefoot for the winter and back to shoes with no issues. Unless your farrier truly sucks, shoes should not mess up your horse’s feet if they weren’t already messed up to begin with. It’s not a big deal. The only issue with having shoes on is it costs a bit more.
[QUOTE=tewhann;7970335]
Shoes are used for 3 reasons: protection, correction, and traction.
First of all, congratulations on finding a good BF trimmer who is open to shoes if needed. Far too many believe BF is the only way.
I haven’t read your other thread(s?), but I would be inclined to keep the pony BF at first unless there is going to be a significant change in the footing s/he will be primarily working in.
Otherwise, just be very observant about changes in the pony’s feet or way of going. They tend to tell you what they need if you listen.
Also, don’t be afraid to try shoes if you think it will help. It might take a few cycles to get back to BF, but it isn’t that big a deal.[/QUOTE]
I was pretty dug in to the barefoot thing, but when my young horse was in training for “Extreme Trail” and the trainer wanted shoes on him, I told her go ahead. The boots were not working for HER, and when she described the terrain I had no problem with it–PLUS, I think it’s no bad thing for EVERY youngster to at least have the experience of being shod.
Another culture clash–the TRAINER was “dug in” with the Dr. Cook’s Bitless Bridle, and I caved to that, but when I got him home the first time he went above that sucker and had his way with me (neck inverted like an alpaca! :eek:) we introduced him to a soft “cowboy” snaffle pretty fast. Didn’t notice that either the brief shod period OR his ensuing bitted life caused this boy any undue “trauma.”
Do it if there’s a GOOD REASON to; if not, leave well enough alone. :winkgrin:
If the horse is moving well and you don’t want to shoe him, don’t shoe him and tell the trainer #1 to piss off (or “no, thank you” :D).
However…
If you are truly curious and have the money to spend on one set of shoes, go ahead and do it. But if you do, shoe all four feet and not just the fronts. One set of shoes will not make or break your horse’s soundness for the next four months, especially considering he has such nice and healthy hooves.
So, yeah, I agree with shakeytails that the lengthy transition back to barefoot is BS.
I had a great horse that did everything barefoot. Once in awhile I had him shod for protection before going on extended trail rides in the Ozark Mountains. He wore the shoes one cycle and that was it. Never missed a step.
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;7970659]
If the horse is moving well and you don’t want to shoe him, don’t shoe him and tell the trainer #1 to piss off (or “no, thank you” :D).
However…
If you are truly curious and have the money to spend on one set of shoes, go ahead and do it. But if you do, shoe all four feet and not just the fronts. One set of shoes will not make or break your horse’s soundness for the next four months, especially considering he has such nice and healthy hooves.
So, yeah, I agree with shakeytails that the lengthy transition back to barefoot is BS.
I had a great horse that did everything barefoot. Once in awhile I had him shod for protection before going on extended trail rides in the Ozark Mountains. He wore the shoes one cycle and that was it. Never missed a step.[/QUOTE]
Yep! Mine was an “Ozark Mountain Daredevil” too! He thinks the trails in CT are totally slumming, and I can’t say I disagree with him. At least he gets to walk the legs off Hanoverians, which is entertaining for us both. 
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7970675]
Yep! Mine was an “Ozark Mountain Daredevil” too! He thinks the trails in CT are totally slumming, and I can’t say I disagree with him. At least he gets to walk the legs off Hanoverians, which is entertaining for us both. [/QUOTE]
Haha! Did you ever ride at Eminence?
Funny, I had the opposite experience. After moving to Colorado my “never needed shoes” horse found himself floundering on the UBER hard ground here. Holy shitflaps! All of a sudden at age 15 he required shoes to get around on the trails. Ozarks were for wussies. But I do so miss that horse, and miss the advantages of living where the earth is not concrete nine months of the year (though can’t say I miss the ticks, humidity and other nastiness).
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;7970690]
Haha! Did you ever ride at Eminence?
Funny, I had the opposite experience. After moving to Colorado my “never needed shoes” horse found himself floundering on the UBER hard ground here. Holy shitflaps! All of a sudden at age 15 he required shoes to get around on the trails. Ozarks were for wussies. But I do so miss that horse, and miss the advantages of living where the earth is not concrete nine months of the year (though can’t say I miss the ticks, humidity and other nastiness).[/QUOTE]
Nope, not from Eminence. TWH rescue horse trained by Deltona Gray in Berryville, she does 'em up for mounted search and rescue teams. Little mite was only 13.2 at 4 years old, but he grew once he got here. She puts some bomb-proofing on them, I can tell you. I was able to baby-sit some wild-and-wooly antics from the customers without him turning a hair from Day One. I’ve literally ridden him through FIRE (or at least, neighbor’s big smudge-pot) and he’ll always go forward. Cross between a Labrador Retriever and the Charge of the Light Brigade, he’s 8 now and the Field Cop out there in the herd–NOTHING goes without his complete investigation!
My horse fits right into Trainer #1’s belief that horses go better in shoes. He’s perfectly fine without them, moves well, can push off his hind end, but there’s an extra level of ‘oomph’ in his step when he’s shod. He steps even more under himself, has extra push over fences and feels bolder as well.
In my experience, having shoes on your horse really isn’t any more diffucult or time-consuming as long as you’re starting with a good-quality hoof. As long as your horse’s feet are in good shape and your farrier does good work, odds of pulling shoes are fairly slim (specialty/correction shoes excepted).
I’ll agree that it would/should be perfectly acceptable to try a few more lessons with Trainer #1 to make sure you’re happy with her instruction before committing to trying shoes on your pony. If you do decide to try shoes, I’d commit to leaving the shoes on for an entire cycle. At that point, if you decide you don’t see or feel much difference and want to go back to barefoot, your pony should have enough regrowth to give your farrier room to trip back where you want for barefoot.
I threw shoes on my TB for about 6 months once. He definitely moved better/felt better/stepped under more. He’s always been fine without shoes, but he blossomed with them. I pulled them when I started traveling for work more. I’m reconsidering putting them back on now. He does move better with them, but he doesn’t move badly without them and he’s not in that much work. I’d take a few more lessons with the trainer and then, if I liked her, put them on for 6 weeks. In the grand scheme of life with horses, one cycle of front shoes is neither much time nor money.
My pony has great feet, is sound barefoot, and just goes better with front shoes.
If you think the rock dust stings your pony’s feet, you could use a sole hardener like Keratex and see if that makes a difference.
Consider that one cycle of shoeing will leave your pony with 6-8 deep “cracks” (nail holes) in each foot. It’s not the end of the world, no, but they do take some consideration to grow out nicely and the hoof will not be at 100% full strength while the wall is compromised. The trimmer is not being dramatic or spewing BS, they’re just being realistic and preparing the OP for 2-3 cycles of less than full strength feet after shoeing.
As I said on the other thread, I would not take farriery advice from a trainer. ESPECIALLY a trainer with hard line views about how ALL horses must be managed the same. If your farrier and vet are happy with the condition of your pony’s feet and movement, great. If you’re concerned, call a second opinion from someone who’s actually qualified to take care of feet: another farrier.
[QUOTE=Alex and Bodie’s Mom;7970348]
Your farrier’s right: it’s a different trim for shoeing than for going barefoot, and it does take some time (depending on how fast your pony’s hooves grow) for the nail holes to fully grow out. [/QUOTE]
Sure, but 2-3 trim cycles before the horse is “back to where it was before?”
If a horse has good feet, nail holes really won’t do any harm. If not, then maybe the horse needs shoes?
I’m not saying I would slap shoes on the pony before your first haul in, but I honestly see no major harm in trying shoes on a horse/pony with good feet. If you see no difference, I really don’t think it will take months to get back to where you were before.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
IIRC there was a big discussion about Trainer 1 and shoes. The same logic that was used in that discussion applies here.
If the horse can do the work barefoot then do it. If it can’t then shoe it. It ain’t “rocket science,” folks.
G.
[QUOTE=Mallard;7970312]
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it…[/QUOTE]
This.
My mare has always been shod, at least as long as I’ve known her. She is older. She is, except for when she tore her DFT, nice and sound.
I’ve had people mention that I should pull at least the back shoes, but you know what? This works for her, it’s worked for her for many many years, and I don’t want to mess with it. It might work out just fine, or it may not. I’m happy to wait to do it til she retires, even though the money saved on shoes would be nice.
Since this trainer is such an expert, ask her exactly how do shoes support the foot? Because it’s actually the other way around. Shoes take away from the ability to have shock absorption because without the shoe the foot can expand and contract. With a shoe it vibrates the foot because the metal will not allow expansion and contraction.
I am sorry, I think I would veer away from this trainer. She sounds like a narrow-minded bigot.
The one thing shoes do for some horses is lift the sole off the ground if they are too flat footed. This makes an animal go from lame to sound. If a horse has flat shelly soles, it’s going to take years to toughen up those soles, so most people would not want to wait and put shoes on. It’s a personal choice.
But why would you mess with a perfectly sound pony, just because all horses need shoes??? That boggles my mind! And yes you will have to transition back if you decide shoes are not for you. The barefoot horse has very little taken off the sole and the bars and the frog. Also the walls are trimmed shorter as well. You need that wall to put the shoes on. And you need to pare down the sole and the bars. Plus horse gets used to sole being lifted off the ground, it may or may not be sore when you put that sole that has now lost callous back down on the ground. Its like a kid who wears shoes all winter. Now they are running barefoot in the summer. At first they are going to wince and ouch. But by the end of the summer their feet are leather.
I wrote to you on your other thread. My horse has never worn shoes and he jumps and goes on trail rides and walks across gravel with zero issues. He can be short strided down the lines, but not because of his feet. Its because I tend to slow him down and let him shift left down lines and I take my leg off this naturally quiet horse. When I ride correctly it’s amazing how big his stride gets, but it’s not because of his feet. Its because I am letting go of his face and putting my leg on. Thank goodness my trainer is educated enough to realize its my riding that is making me add down the lines, not his feet!
[QUOTE=S1969;7970837]
Sure, but 2-3 trim cycles before the horse is “back to where it was before?”
If a horse has good feet, nail holes really won’t do any harm. If not, then maybe the horse needs shoes?
I’m not saying I would slap shoes on the pony before your first haul in, but I honestly see no major harm in trying shoes on a horse/pony with good feet. If you see no difference, I really don’t think it will take months to get back to where you were before.[/QUOTE]
My point was that horse’s hooves grow at different rates depending on a.) the horse in question, b.) its nutrition, and c.) the environment. It MIGHT take 1 trim to get rid of the nail holes, or it might take several months. The farrier probably knows the pony better than we do. If my farrier tells me one of my horses needs x, I trust him because he’s been with my horses, and seen their hooves in every condition possible, for the past 10+ years.
My horse was barefoot all-round until he was 9 years old. I put Old Mac boots on fronts for trail riding only. However, our extended California drought has made the ground rock hard - including his paddock. While he had no soundness issues, we did note some slight bruising in front within the last six months, so now he has front shoes. I’ve noticed NO difference in his movement. (He’s always been a good mover and he remains a good mover).
Anecdotal, but my pony (14.2 GRP with some Welsh, now almost 8yo) has had a long history of doing well barefoot. However, when I started to show her more seriously, I noticed she was a bit tender/less confident in the footing in some venues. Because I can’t control the footing, especially in driveways/unloading zones/etc., I put shoes on all 4.
She now feels quite a bit more confident in the lengthened and medium gaits, and has quite a bit better crossing in the lateral work. I think she was getting small stone bruises that limited her reach. Shoes give her enough clearance on gravel/stone paths that she’s not uncomfortable anymore. It didn’t fix any training issues and certainly isn’t the silver bullet that turned her from backyard schooling to international quality, but did seem to make a difference in her attitude/confidence in various arenas.
I was always told to do all 4 or nothing.
I greatly appreciate all the responses on this thread, you guys are giving me some great things to think about.
To be clear, I do not trust trainer 1. At all. I was going to dismiss her outright and not even think about her again, but from my last thread, many encouraged me to 1) Question her to see if her beliefs held any merit (which I did) and 2) try a cycle of shoes, that it would be no big deal, I could verify for myself if my pony benefitted in any way from them, and just pull them off if I felt they were doing no good (which I’m learning from this thread may not be the case.)
I do trust my trimmer. I do believe she was just doing her part in educating me on what could be the worst case scenario. My pony is not an outrageously fast grower, so that may be part of her reasoning. When I bought him, she was not happy with his existing trim, and it did indeed take her two trims to get him to a point where she was satisfied. But, she is also incredibly picky…
Again, thanks. I always find the information I get from COTH to be invaluable. 
