Putting shoes on the barefoot horse

[netg]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;7970172]
I am in no way one of the people who believes all horses should be barefoot, but if the trainer thinks that all horses in work need to be in shoes, that is equally ridiculous. If trainer can give you reasons related to soundness, foot quality, and performance of your particular pony, then fine. Those are worth considering and discussing with your farrier, and maybe a shoes experiment is in order.

Based on trainer #1’s explanation, I would keep shopping for a new trainer.[/QUOTE]

I have all four of my horses barefoot. Three have never had shoes or needed them, and the 4th is my OTTB who had terrible feet and needed a drastic change to help him. In his case, he had trouble holding a show, his underrun heels were getting constantly worse, and he had totally flat, extremely soft soles and was never really fully sound, I don’t think. I was worried about a major soft tissue injury, and my farrier was only removing toe but it kept getting worse, especially due to how slowly his hooves grow. The transition has been painful because he has been sore, often, and I would love to be able to just throw shoes on him but temporary soundness issues vs permanent soundness issues are a no brainer.

What I have learned from this, though, is I strongly support very frequent very minor trims. I’m a dressage rider and have developed the Princess and the Pea type of sensitivity to hooves, and the more frequent and more minor the trims, the more consistent my horses’ performance. My horses now get trims every two weeks- and this costs me quite a bit more than 4 shoes every 6-8 weeks would. It’s worth it, though.

I also believe in hoof protection when needed for a horse. For my OTTB, I ride in boots on all 4. I will use glue-ons if I ever show again, or just take the boots off prior to entering the ring. He’s ok without boots sometimes, and runs around his pen leaping and bucking and pounding on his hooves with no protection, too. My philosophy is that it’s my duty to only ask my horse to perform if I am certain he/she is comfortable, and allow the horse to judge for itself otherwise.

I am not opposed to shoes. However, I am opposed to them “just for the heck of it.” My 2 riding horses who have never had shoes would probably have no problem with them, as they have fabulous feet. You just never know, though… (Horse #4 is a crippled rescue mare who drags a toe due to severed muscles/tendons/ligaments in her forearm and would be likely to rip off shoes.) If you’re concerned about possibly sore hooves, I would look to boots first. As one of the posters noted above, even that doesn’t work with some horses, but you can re-sell the used boots if you think they’re always unneeded, and you can have them on hand in case of emergency need, too.

[vandenbrink]

[QUOTE=demidq;7970270]
My farrier trims a hoof similarly whether or not the horse is shod, [/QUOTE]

and sadly this is why so many horses NEED shoes. You cannot trim the same when they are barefoot vs shod. The trim must be different. You’re completely changing the hoof functioning putting a shoe on, so it makes sense the trim changes. If the trim is wrong, they will go sore and then will be prescribed shoes. If they did a better job trimming, more could stay barefoot. Farrier work is all over the map. Some so great, others not so much. Shoeing and trimming jobs should NOT look so different if they are following the same principles.

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=Nootka;7971147]
I was always told to do all 4 or nothing.[/QUOTE]

Many dressage horses are shod in front only. My horse has had no issues, having gone from barefoot to front shoes only. I hope eventually to transition back to barefoot - if this drought ever ends!!!

[supershorty628]

[QUOTE=tinyrider;7971198]

To be clear, I do not trust trainer 1. At all.[/QUOTE]

If that’s truly how you feel, then why waste your time (and trainer 1’s time)? That’s never going to be a healthy relationship and everyone involved will just end up frustrated.

[tinyrider]

[QUOTE=supershorty628;7972303]
If that’s truly how you feel, then why waste your time (and trainer 1’s time)? That’s never going to be a healthy relationship and everyone involved will just end up frustrated.[/QUOTE]

If I’d known upfront that trainer 1 was so anti-barefoot, I probably wouldn’t have done the trial lesson in the first place. HOWEVER…I’ve actually found this to be a very educational experience. I don’t feel it was a waste of my time at all. I have learned a lot from the experience, it got me reading, researching, and asking questions, which is always a good thing. I know everyone has their own opinion and outlook on life, but I have never been one to feel that learning something new is a waste of time, especially when it comes to caring for my horse. It certainly wasn’t a waste for the trainer either… I did, after all, pay her for the lesson plus trailer-in fee, and she welcomed the questions. We both understood it was a trial lesson, so there were no hard feelings and no expectations beyond that.

[Foxtrot_s]

With some horses, Nootka is right. Most horses can get by with fronts only, my old mare did all her life. But when you want the horse to put his weight further back, the shoes can help offer support on the hinds and give confidence. Or they may put more weight on the fronts because they are protected. It depends. My current horse (the daughter) has all around for the work she is doing.

[Foxtrot_s]

After all this - is there an option #4, OP?

[tinyrider]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7972427]
After all this - is there an option #4, OP?[/QUOTE]

I’m actually going to give trainer 3 a few more trial lessons before I decide yes or no on her. Yes, she freely admits she doesn’t like ponies, she prefers a horse with more size. But after speaking with her more (and asking loads more questions!), I feel confident that it will not interfere with the training. Also, I got to speak with one of her current students that boards at her facility. This student owns a big, extremely loudly colored paint horse of undetermined breeding. Apparently the trainer was HORRIFIED when this gal bought this horse… it seems colored horses are not her cup of tea either. But they laugh about it now, and she is very happy training with her… so we’ll see. It does make me wonder what would have happened if I’d shown up with a paint pony on lesson day! :lol:

[Foxtrot_s]

Good - up to you to change her mind then?!

[Nootka]

[QUOTE=Sandy M;7972290]
Many dressage horses are shod in front only. My horse has had no issues, having gone from barefoot to front shoes only. I hope eventually to transition back to barefoot - if this drought ever ends!!![/QUOTE]

It was a major dressage instuctor that told me this. I had my young HAN gelding in fronts. He was at the point in his training where he was ready for more so I decided to go to a clinic. The instructor said he was an awesome mover and 4 shoes would benifit him because just fronts throw them a tad off balance.

[PoohLP]

[QUOTE=TSWJB;7971014]
The barefoot horse has very little taken off the sole and the bars and the frog. Also the walls are trimmed shorter as well. You need that wall to put the shoes on. And you need to pare down the sole and the bars. [/QUOTE]

What??? My farrier doesn’t take any sole or frog off my shod horse. I’m relatively certain he isn’t messing with the bars either. My horse’s front heart bar shod feet and hind barefoot feet look substantially similar. The front heels are lower, hence the bar shoe, but that is about it. We’re actually adding hind shoes this weekend bc me, my trainer and my farrier all think it is time and that the ectra support will help him, and I’m pretty darn sure my farrier isn’t going to undo all the good work he has done curating my horse’s hind feet just so he can put a shoe on.

Regardless, it is true that if a horse has been shod all their life, they will take awhile to transition to being barefoot and some may never successfully make the transition because they have been shod because they need shoes.

I agree with your farrier that if you are going to try shoes, you should commit for a full cycle. After all, if you are going to spend the money to try it, then really give it a chance to work. Five weeks in a set of shoes isn’t going to destroy his foot or wear off his calluses or whatever. If you put them on for a year maybe there would be a reacclimation period, a month, not so much. And if you take them off after 5 weeks, his foot isn’t going to fall apart or split at the nail holes.

All that said, if you are happy with how your horse goes barefoot, and even the trainer who suggests shoes says he is going well without shoes, and the fancy warmblood trainer said she didn’t even notice that he didn’t have shoes, and you’re not training for endurance, or high level dressage or to jump 3’6 where either extra protection is needed or even marginally better movement can mean the difference between winning and losing, and your farrier is advising against it, then no. I wouldn’t put on shoes. Your horse is good. He’s happy in his work. And he’s performing at the level you need him to perform at at this time. If or when that is no longer then case, that is when I would try shoes.

[Dressagelvr]

I agree that it is all 4 or none. Been in the dressage scene a long time in a lot of places & this is what I’ve seen. I would also have a “wait and see” approach w/this pony.

[rb5007]

Don’t do it. I have had two horses in the past who had great feet and were prefectly fine barefoot and I was persuaded to put front shoes on them. No major issues but no real difference either - and they both eventually went back to barefoot. I have two now who are 8 and 6 and have never worn shoes - one a hunter and one a dressage horse. If you need shoes to address a specific problem, that’s one thing (I have another TB mare who definitely needs front shoes), but I will NEVER again put shoes on just because a trainer tells me to.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=tinyrider;7971198]
I greatly appreciate all the responses on this thread, you guys are giving me some great things to think about.

To be clear, I do not trust trainer 1. At all. I was going to dismiss her outright and not even think about her again, but from my last thread, many encouraged me to 1) Question her to see if her beliefs held any merit (which I did) and 2) try a cycle of shoes, that it would be no big deal, I could verify for myself if my pony benefitted in any way from them, and just pull them off if I felt they were doing no good (which I’m learning from this thread may not be the case.)

I do trust my trimmer. I do believe she was just doing her part in educating me on what could be the worst case scenario. My pony is not an outrageously fast grower, so that may be part of her reasoning. When I bought him, she was not happy with his existing trim, and it did indeed take her two trims to get him to a point where she was satisfied. But, she is also incredibly picky…

Again, thanks. I always find the information I get from COTH to be invaluable. :)[/QUOTE]
Sounds like she would not be a good fit for you. Why would you take lessons from a person you don’t trust?

FWIW Sophie is shod in the summer and barefoot in the winter(shoe sucking mud issues). I don’t have any problem transitioning her between shod/barefoot but she is far more confident with shoes.

Four months to transition her back to barefoot seems extreme to me.

[tinyrider]

[QUOTE=carolprudm;7973209]
Sounds like she would not be a good fit for you. Why would you take lessons from a person you don’t trust?[/QUOTE]

I answered this (please scroll up the page).

I find it interesting that many are saying all 4 or nothing. So it sounds like if I did eventually decide to put shoes on him (purely hypothetically speaking at this point), it may be worth doing 2 cycles of shoes, first with just fronts, then with all four?

[Beverley]

I’m off the all 4 or nothing camp, I suppose we are all swayed by our own experiences. Mine was the first mare I ever started from scratch, she became a bit tender barefoot and we initially just shod her on the front. The soft, sandy arena was sufficiently irritating that she protected those bare hind feet by propping on the forehand at every opportunity. Fixed it by shoeing the hind feet, and not really a majorly earth shaking deal, but that just made me perennially more sensitive to really looking how horses are handling their hind end. At my barn presently, there are a number that are barefoot behind, and most are fine with that given the nature of the work they are doing, but some, I’d put rear shoes on. Mine own two usually go barefoot in winter and shod all around in summer. Their movement indicates they’re more confident with the shoes on, but in winter work is light enough and footing soft, so they are happy enough to live with it.

But- to restate what I and others have said in this thread, really, just keep going barefoot and shoe if the need is identified. If needed, my own preference, just me, would be all four for a ‘first shoeing’ to prevent the aforementioned experience with my mare, back in the '60s.

[IPEsq]

I know a dressage horse who is only shod behind, so… :lol:

[bluebird44]

My horse was barefoot and sound when I got him, but as I upped his work level significantly and had him in training, my farrier was the one to make the call that he needed front shoes. He moved a little bit better barefoot, so if I was showing him I probably would have switched to aluminum.

[2enduraceriders]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;7973576]
I know a dressage horse who is only shod behind, so… :lol:[/QUOTE]
I can understand this…lol

All that aside, if you are wearing hoof off faster then it is growing then you need shoes.
If your horses is using his rear like everyone seems to strive for you need hinds. If your horse is still so heavy on the fore that the rear is just drug along behind then why bother with hinds?

My horses are barefoot until the hoof is wearing enough to need shoes, then they get all 4. If they are not being rode as heavy then they are barefoot again. No problem going back and forth.

The last thing I will ever do is ride a horse that is gimpy. Why people coddle their horses in so many ways in fear it will be hurt then ride a horse in pain I will never understand.

In 30 years of endurance rides I have not seen a barefoot horse complete that was not foot sore. This includes my daughters horse with rock hard hooves that did his first 50 barefoot. A mistake we will never do again.

[Foxtrot_s]

I was saying the same thing as Beverley.

But lots of horses can go just as nature intended…it’s a matter of trial and see.
Footing that the horse is on makes a difference.

Not to degenerate this into a barefoot/shod argument, but on the trails where I ride the trail edges are all being broken down as the barefoot horses hobble over to the softer edges - just not right. That’s what boots are for.