Putting up an indoor vs an outdoor

[luckycricket123]

I have my own farm and I keep going back and forth about putting in an indoor. I’m in the mid-atlantic so winters are cold and summers are hot.

When the footing is too wet or frozen, I ride in a small dry lot that’s really not enough space for lateral work or jumping, but if you are creative, you can get a fair amount done in there. The biggest drawback is that I also use it for turnout, so I have to muck out before I can ride.

Anyways, since its been a very mild winter here, I’ve been able to ride most of the winter, but I’ve been stuck in this tiny little dry lot. In the late spring, summer, and fall, I have beautiful flat fields with great footing where I can set up a jump course or a standard-sized dressage ring.

I’ve been holding out for my indoor! I want one, but it’s so expensive and so many other things need to be built or fixed around the farm… Since it’s been so mild this winter, I wonder if I’d be better off investing in an outdoor ring with excellent drainage and footing and at least having somewhere bigger to ride in the wet months.

What would you do?

[endlessclimb]

If you won’t have the money for an indoor in a year or less, I’d put in the outdoor. You can always cover it later if you get the $$.

[erinmeri]

I don’t have my own farm, but I agree with an outdoor if you can’t swing for an indoor now.

Where I board, we have an outdoor with the new “all weather” footing, and it can rain buckets and drain very quickly (within 30-60 minutes). I am sure they have a good base and drainage, but the footing holds up great with a lot of precipitation. I think it’s the same footing they have at Princeton? One caveat is that when the ground is frozen, the arena isn’t useable (hence the “all weather” in quotes).

I know a lot of people make do with a small indoor (which may be more affordable) - including Beezie Madden, whose indoor is only 60’x145’ as per comments on this video. But if you don’t also have an outdoor, I can see how that would be very limiting if you didn’t have another decent place to ride and get things done during the bulk of the year.

[fourfillies]

I’m in southern PA with a well draining outdoor and I’ve hacked outside all winter. We have a small indoor and jump inside once a week. It’s been atypically warm and wet. More typically I’d miss a week or two hacking outside. The difference with this warm winter is we could have jump outside (the jumps got moved inside in Dec per usual winter protocol). Unless you jump a ton I’d definitely go with the outdoor rather than spend 3 months in a tin can. I’m not sure a large enough covered will save you much money over true indoor?

[LCDR]

I’d do neither outdoor nor indoor. I would go for a covered arena. That will give you a place to ride when it is rainy. It will make summer riding cooler and more pleasurable. And you can bundle up and ride in the winter on dry ground And if you add low side walls you will have a bit of a wind break.

[Willesdon]

A covered arena can be a good compromise as it keeps off the rain but has breeze cooling in the summer. If one aligns the structure to avoid the coldest winds or biggest rain and has a solid wall at that weather end it can be very user friendly.

[trubandloki]

My answer depends on where you are in this area.

In my part of the world (NY, which some people consider mid-Atlantic) even all weather footing is not enough to make a place ridable during the winter months if you want to do more than walk. Snow and ice make it pretty impossible.

Just covered would not solve that problem either.

If you are further south and that is not an issue I agree with the others, if your indoor is going to wait a bit, then spend the money on the outdoor and then you can build your indoor over it and the expense of the footing will be already done.

[walktrot]

I’ve spent some time in an indoor/outdoor at a small farm that doesn’t have room for both. Topography is a challenge in Maine, not enough flat ground without ledge.

It has large panels that run from the eaves to about 1/3 to halfway down the exterior walls. I can’t find a photo. For the summer the panels are removed, so you have a nice roof overhead. The remaining wall (sits on the ground) is high enough that the horse isn’t distracted by something outside. The open area runs all the way around the building so you have weather protection from an indoor in the summer with the advantages of an outdoor with plenty of shade. When cold weather arrives the panels are installed and it is a regular indoor for the winter. I don’t have any idea about the cost, but it was well-built and worth it if you want to keep riding, giving lessons and clinics when the weather stinks.

I did a dressage schooling show and it was nice. We took kids to several shows where I sat inside and read dressage tests for the kids. It was very comfortable, shady, plenty of light, protects you from bad weather. We also did some Centered Riding clinics. BO was a top-notch CR instructor who spent time with Sally Swift. She always had something on the calendar year-round.

[rulex]

I once rode in an arena that had initially been built as an outdoor and then later on the indoor was built over it. I’m guessing it was initially built with a proper base etc. Is that something you could consider?

That way you get your riding area right away and can see if an outdoor will work for you, and if you upgrade to an indoor you don’t necessarily lose what you invested into the outdoor.

[happilyretired]

Another vote for a covered arena. I’m in Central Florida so we don’t have to worry about snow and ice but the sun can be brutal and we get a lot of rain in the summer. The covered arena has lots of advantages — shade in the summer, positioned well it can take advantage of breezes in hot weather, protection from rain (unless its a driving deluge) while riding, and protection for footing from frequent drenching rains. And, you can add lights to add riding time in the late afternoon/evenings during the shorter days of autumn and winter. Depending on local codes you still need engineering and in Florida we have to be able to withstand the winds of tropical storms/hurricanes — but it could be something to investigate.

[clanter]

if building an indoor arena it would be advisable to check to see if the site would be subject to NPDES permit requirements ( National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System) generally, sites with one or more acres of land disturbance are governed by the requirements.

An arena’s construction site could easily exceed the one acre threshold

I know of a person who built an arena who after construction began found they needed to follow the EPA’s NPDES requirements for storm water run off, the addition drainage work was an added unexpected but required expense

Rather than assume its my land and I can do as I wish, it would be advisable to check then recheck local and state requirements

[S1969]

@luckycricket123

I’ve been holding out for my indoor! I want one, but it’s so expensive and so many other things need to be built or fixed around the farm… Since it’s been so mild this winter, I wonder if I’d be better off investing in an outdoor ring with excellent drainage and footing and at least having somewhere bigger to ride in the wet months.

What would you do?

Can you actually afford an indoor? I mean - have you actually had it quoted and know that it’s a cost you could cover, whether this year or in 3 years?

There is no way I could have ever justified building an indoor arena on my farm. Period. It would be such an expense that would be 90% unlikely to be recoverable in a sale.

So that made my answer easy. An outdoor arena is a big expense also. But much less than an indoor.

[trubandloki]

@clanter

Rather than assume its my land and I can do as I wish, it would be advisable to check then recheck local and state requirements

I would think almost anywhere would require at minimum a building permit for a structure that large.

[clanter]

The question becomes just which jurisdiction the construction falls under so just check to make sure

[Bonnie2]

If you have nice outdoor spaces to ride in good weather, I would definitely do the indoor! It is much easier to control the moisture level of the footing in an indoor. No ice/snow or washed out footing when it floods. And you will be happy to be out of the sun/rain/wind. No contest! If it’s nice out who wants to ride in a ring anyway?

[MsM]

The cost may make the decision for you. They are expensive and don’t generally return the investment in resale (YMMV) If you have enough money that it is not a difficulty, then I would think having a well-ventilated indoor would be lovely for riding in the cold and heat. But realistically, most small farms do without.

[EssexFells]

If you are putting up a covered structure, orient it so the long axis is east west, giving you a southern-facing roof*, and include solar panels on the structure. There are massive federal and state incentives right now for solar, and a big arena roof is the ideal place to put panels. Here’s a database of incentives by each state. Depending on your electricity usage on the farm, you could likely fit enough panels up there to cover 100 % of your usage (once you factor in the net metering).

*solar panels really have to face due south to get the most output.

[EssexFells]

PS: And here’s why you want solar on your property now (and then add battery storage when system costs come down a bit more, which they will). Aside from being green and all that, nearly every regional grid operator in the US is facing looming, serious shortages of electrical generation capacity by 2030. I’m in the industry and honestly not sure we’re going to be able to fix it in time.

[clanter]

@EssexFells

the US is facing looming, serious shortages of electrical generation capacity by 2030. I’m in the industry and honestly not sure we’re going to be able to fix it in time.

agree, as the nuke power plant being expanded in Georgia is the only one under construction at this time, the units 3 & 4 have been under construction for eighteen Years since 2009 with estimated cost now to be over $28.5 billion, ( I sold some early stage equipment to the contractor) these units are expected (supposed to be) to put on line later this year, or who knows when. These two units are expected to provide the electrical power needs of 500,000 customers

[SusanO]

I keep trying to win the lottery to pay for a covered arena. It rains a lot in the winter and the sun is a killer here in the summer. So far I have been unsuccessful. And if I won the lottery, I would also do solar panels even though Alabama is a state where the power company charges you extra if you have solar.

Without winning the lottery the cost is prohibitive for just a cover for my small arena.