I used to do eventing and we had minimum eligibility requirements (ex: get a certain score 4 times to be allowed to compete at the next level up) and my question is whether dressage has requirements like this? I can’t find information on this anywhere in the USDF rulebook… If my horse is ready for third level does that mean we can enter a recognized event at third level or do I need to get a certain number of scores at the lower levels first?
Thanks so much!
No, we have no qualification requirements. There has been some controversy about this over the past few years, but this is where it is now.
The risk of overfacing ourselves is simply embarrassment rather than death or injury!
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Dear OP,
I also used to event. That sport instituted qualifying scores mainly because of the cross country phase. There is a huge difference between beginner novice, novice, training and prelim. Water, banks, speed, skinnies, etc. are increasingly introduced, and these elements present a physical danger to both horse and rider who aren’t prepared. Unlike dressage and show jumping, cross-country can’t be schooled “at home”. The horse has to be “OK” with going out on an unfamiliar course with unfamiliar jumps that don’t easily come down - for the safety of all.
No, these requirements don’t exist in dressage. Thankfully. If your horse is actually ready for third level, you can show third level. Under the “formerly proposed” potential rules, you’d have to start your third level horse at Training level and go to 2 or more recognized dressage shows and gain scores at Training, First, and Second level before you’d be able to show at Third. What a waste of your money and time. If your horse is truly Third level, you should be able to show at Third level. If you horse is not, you’ll get terrible scores that will hopefully make you think twice about your riding and training.
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Curious - what do people think is a terrible score, or, what do you think is an acceptable score where a rider would feel
they deserve to be in the level. What score would you say readies you to go up to the next level, presuming the moves are being schooled at home?
The rule book answers that question…
There is no mark awarded called “terrible”…so we can’t go up making things up.
The rulebook provides at least 3 variants of “bad”… eg., “Fairly Bad”…“Bad”…and “Very Bad”.
According to the FEI rulebook, the scale of marks is defined as follows:
10 Excellent
9 Very Good
8 Good
7 Fairly Good
6 Satisfactory
5 Sufficient
4 Insufficient
3 Fairly Bad
2 Bad
1 Very Bad
0 Not executed
So if we were to go with the generally accepted Merriam-Webster dictionary definitions of these terms,
- [B]Insufficient (4)[/B]: Lacking adequate capacity, or competence
- [B]Sufficient (5): [/B]Enough to meet the needs of a situation; qualified, competent
- [B]Satisfactory (6):[/B] Good enough for a particular purpose
And a score above 50% would be considered “competent” and scores of 60% would be considered “Good Enough”
The unofficial rule of thumb I have heard most recently is consistent scores in the mid 60s or higher are an indication that the horse and rider pair has mastered a given level and may be ready to move up.
Also, conventional wisdom says that you show one level below what you are schooling at home.
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You do need a qualifying score to do a freestyle, I think it’s 60% at the highest test of the level.
Mid 60’s as line in sand gets harder with each level. Gosh you only need scores at 63 to qualify for regionals at TRAINING level; they drop from there to 60 by Third level. Seems to me that if you can qualify for regionals at a particular level, you are probably ready to move up. Lots of people skip levels with their horses - depends on rider skill and horse fitness, etc.
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2tempe, that makes sense - regional championship qualifying scores would seem to be a better benchmark across all levels. And I looked up the rule for freestyle qualifying, and badger is correct - 60% on the highest test of the freestyle level or any higher level test.
USDF gives rider awards of Bronze medal based on achievement of at least 60% from two different judges at first, second and third level. I am one of those people who think that 60% is a little bit low for this honor. However, the allure of a Bronze medal is a big motivator for many amateurs in this sport. And to be honest, I was happy to achieve it too. But I don’t think it qualified me to do anything other than post on this dressage board!
For my personal showing goals, I would like to achieve a 65% before moving up a level.
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For amateurs, 60 means you are qualified, 65 means you move up.
For pros, 65 means you are qualified, 70 means you move up.
I don’t understand the pros who go to show after show after show stuck in the 50’s. Who are they kidding.
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The quality of the gaits modifies every score on the test. So each individual has to evaluate his or her own horse against its natural ability in terms of what appeals to judges, and to take into account the rider’s skills and learning curve, in deciding to move up.
There’s no universal line in the sand because different gaits receive consistently higher scores or consistent demerits, as the case may be. After you compete at a few shows, and see how the puzzle is pieced together, it will make more sense. And of course if you have others who’ll share their score sheets with you and you can really see how which horses get what, and why, it will really help.
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What is the source of this data, or is it just your personal opinion?
My opinion is that one moves to a higher level when they feel they have the ability to do the work of the next level. That doesn’t mean they won’t bomb out on a couple movements.
According to your requirements, a Pro would need a 70% at I1 to move up to GP. That’s ridiculous. I personally know people that have gotten relatively mediocre scores at lower levels and higher scores as they progressed up the levels. It depends on what the horse’s forte is.
Also, there can be horses that get a 75% and not ready to move up. Some examples would be a Training Level horse that is a sweeping mover and accurate, but can’t collect for the higher level. Or a Second Level horse, that can’t get the changes. Or a talented 3rd level horse than can’t get the pirouettes or tempos. In all these examples, the horses could be getting 65+% and not be ready to move up.
I also agree with Daisy about the Bronze medal and I feel that way about the Silver too. If you covet the medals and they make you feel good about yourself and your riding, go for it. It doesn’t imo always indicate how well you ride or train.
I don’t know any pro’s that go to shows and stay stuck in the 50’s. These must be pros in fly over country.
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Mostly my thinking - I hear you Silverbridge and agree. Using the idea that dressage is training then we should all be
encouraged to give it a go and enjoy the journey, despite our horse’s physical drawbacks. We cannot all ride the 10 mover that is built to sit and collect.
I was thinking that 60% would not be anything to be ashamed of in local shows - not the National champs, or anything like that.
I also see no shame in giving it a go: a 60 or 65 would please me greatly and I would not think I was outclassed. As an eventer-type, some of us have a more go for it mentality.
I look at the scores, and see the repeated comments on a certain weakness. If I deem that fixable within short order,
I’d work on the weak spots, but not go down a level…and we can all have flubbs somewhere in the test. Small fixes can earn another half point here and there - important details. It seems harder and harder to move up and the St Georges seems downright intimidating.
At L judge training with Bill Solyntjes, we were told that scores begin with the gaits and mistakes come down from there. If your horse gets an 8 for gaits, then a few errors might still get you a 70
persnally, I think requirements for regionals are good indications of performance.
I agree. There is a big difference between a 9 mover who gets a 65 and a 6 mover who gets a 65 on the same test. The 9 mover probably had tons of mistakes and lack of submission; the 6 mover probably put in a beautiful submissive test. The 6 mover is probably ready to move up; the 9 mover probably needs more miles in the show ring.
This is why you should never compare yourself and horse to any other competitor but try and stay in your bubble.
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Oh, I have definitely known some pros who ride in the 50s allllllllll the way up the levels. Bunch of 50’s at 4th, finally eke out two low 60’s, bunch of 50’s at PSG, finally eke out two low 60’s, etc, bunch of 50’s at GP with a few attempts in the 40’s.
Still advertise as an ‘FEI’ trainer and USDF silver medalist. Please.
Obviously the 65/70 standard isn’t the law, and it’s clearly a very high standard at the upper levels, but this is for pros. Shouldn’t they be doing really well?
I’ve personally known people stuck in the 50’s their whole career (and not in flyover country, sadly) but I also know people with a 70 at every level. For several more people, they have 70’s all the way through I1, and then are 68/69 in the I2/GP.
So, it’s clearly a high standard, but also an achievable one.
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As my vet says…
QUESTION: “What do you call the vet student who graduated at the bottom of the class?”
ANSWER: "Doctor"
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Wisdom from Cowgirl needs a repeat…
I agree. There is a big difference between a 9 mover who gets a 65 and a 6 mover who gets a 65 on the same test. The 9 mover probably had tons of mistakes and lack of submission; the 6 mover probably put in a beautiful submissive test. The 6 mover is probably ready to move up; the 9 mover probably needs more miles in the show ring.
This is why you should never compare yourself and horse to any other competitor but try and stay in your bubble.
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…ok, but if I am going to spend the amount of money that dressage costs, I’m going to be directing that money as much as possible toward the top of the class instead of the bottom.
