Comment from another thread got me thinking…
Florida is a ‘melting pot’ in the winter and horses from all states are showing against one another.
What areas/states seem turn out the highest quality of hunters?
What are the most competitive areas/shows for hunters? Not including HITS Ocala or WEF.
Well, just going on general knowledge of the world, I’m going to guess that you find the highest concentration of quality competition horses in regions that meet these criteria:
Higher incomes and proximity to urban areas, to create the client base
High concentration of riding in that discipline and lots of competition opportunity.
In the US I’d say for English disciplines that would be the North East/ midAtlantic coast and California. In Canada, Ontario and perhaps Quebec.
Obviously there are going to be some outliers based elsewhere. And actually breeding is another thing. Where I live, almost all the warmbloods were born in cowboy country where no one much rides dressage, but the land is cheaper and the climate healthier for horses.
Like for Western riding, I bet a lot of competitors are based in Texas because it has money plus a western riding tradition.
Virginia, Maryland, PA, New York, New Jersey, because high income, high population density, and tradition.
I’m Canadian so haven’t really shown in the US except Florida and once in Vermont. Ontario definitely has the nicest hunters here.
If the states with higher income etc, what are the biggest shows with the best quality?
I don’t know much about the west coast but on the east id say the shows with the best quality hunters are:
Upperville - Virginia , lake placid - New York, capital challenge - MD, Middleburg - VA, Kentucky Horse Park’s AA shows
I’m sure there are others 
then of course you have the qualifying shows where the top ranked hunters compete - Devon, Washington, Harrisburg, and the National Horse show
I wouldn’t necessarily say Ontario definitely has the nicest hunters, it’s just that there’s more of them due to a much higher population! For instance, when Western Canadian hunter riders do manage to make it to the Royal Winter Fair they do seem to place consistently in the ribbons…lower quality hunters would not be placing! Sadly, in Alberta, hunters are not as popular but we do still have some very high quality ones that command a high dollar price! We just have to travel further to compete at a more competitive level than you do in Ontario…count your blessings!
We do, on the West side of North America still have a couple of high quality hunter shows…Thunderbird and Coachella…although the East side seems to think we don’t exist!
Some other “top” shows in the Northeast include
Devon – PA
Old Salem Spring – NY
Fairfield Charity – CT
Hampton Classic – NY
The Royal is just one horse show. The top 10-12 horses in Ontario get to go, out of the 30-40 that compete regularly in each division. Many of the horses that qualify for the Royal do so by jumping every weekend from April to October and amass points by quantity of performance (not always quality).
I’m a bit biased as I’ve been in this zone my whole life, but I have to agree the quality of hunters in Z3 is outstanding. Even the 2’6 pre children’s/adult horses are VERY fancy. I also notice the quantity of nice hunters here very regularly. Adults and children’s divisions are rarely combined at rated shows (I actually don’t think I’ve ever seen this happen myself) and at most shows the juniors and A/Os fill. There’s just a ton of well bred, well schooled, and well shown horses here.
Yes I know it’s just one show…yes I know you have more horses to pick from that poor old us out West, but please stop with the insinuating that hunters out West aren’t as good. Yes they are, we are simply much lower in numbers. It’s not just this show that hunters from the West place at, they do (if they happen to have the dollars) also go to some of the other big shows and place well as well! And, when horses from the East come West they don’t win everything…it goes both ways! Yes you ARE luckier that you have so many more shows to choose from simply due to population, but don’t think our shows aren’t as competitive!
There are nice horses also in the San Francisco Bay Area … and suburbs and also in Sourthern CA… again because of the Urban areas and income. Most of the horses are imported though from other areas, Europe, or brought west from the East. There are a few breeders that are doing well in the West. Tish Quirk has really nice horses from her stallions, that are on the circuit.
Top shows include Sonoma Horse Park and Rancho Murrieta in the NorCal and Showpark and The Oaks/Blenheim in SoCal. Of course Thermal is going on now, similar to the shows in Florida… they are HITS shows.
I think that is true. We have some nice horses in the Midwest/Chicago area, but it is much less competitive than Virginia was. You can do OK on a horse of much less quality. There are still some great horses at the top, though.
on the other hand, for Eq the NE is king. In Virginia the Medal/Maclay had a hard time filling at all.
Sorry but I disagree. I grew up in Ontario, spent several years in Alberta, then moved back to Ontario. The west coast has nowhere near the number of nice hunters as Ontario and Quebec. Don’t get me wrong, there are a few. I highly respect Rodney and the Balisky’s, and they always have some nice hunters around.
But unless you’ve spent some time sitting and watching the rings on both coasts you really can’t compare.
Just look at the class counts. Palgrave can have 3 rings of drool worthy hunters going from 7am to 7pm for days. While some of the Alberta A shows don’t even have a 3’6"hunter division. Even the B shows in Ontario have the horses to run that.
Then take a look at how the Canadian hunters who traveled south are doing.
Showing in Alberta was a great experience for me. I won back my entries several times. Showed and did well at the Royal West and Tbird. And even won a Canadian Hunter Derby at 3’6". As much as I love my horse it’s very, very unlikely that we’d ever pin in one of the east coast derbies though. And we’d have to do some serious campaigning to show at RAWF.
I thought that’s what she said repeatedly, that the west had equally nice hunters, but way less of them.
Kentucky Horse Park, Tyron, Chicago
Thank you…that’s exactly what I’m saying! I’d bet if we had the population densities Ontario had, it would be equal!
Way, way less of them… and equally nice varies year to year. It doesn’t mean that capable horses aren’t there, but you’d have to go pull them from the jumper rings or import one.
The dreams are different between the provinces. I grew up in Ontario dreaming of showing in the hunters at the Royal. My Alberta friends dreamed of showing jumpers at Spruce Meadows.
Kind of like the hockey in Canada vs the football in the US.
Yeah importing hunters is pretty common everywhere these days. The jumpers too :lol:
Way, way, WAY less of them. In Ontario, we have even have an incredibly competitive 3’ A/O division that doesn’t get to go to the Royal because no other province has enough to run the class, so it isn’t offered. We regularly have 30 entries in that division! Same for the 3’3" Jr/Am division.
I will argue that while there are a handful of very nice hunters in Western Canada that can hold their own when they come east, the vast majority of hunters showing in rated divisions in Ontario are of equal quality of those who get to the Royal.
And yes, it is largely a factor of geography and market. I’m not saying “better than” as some form of insult. It’s a fact of market forces and culture. The GTA is populous and relatively wealthy (average price for a detached home in Toronto is $1.35 million), giving us a larger amateur rider market base. Our shows are geared toward that ammy market, with the recognition that most of us want to ride our horses, and more are comfortable in the hunter ring for one reason or another. That catering to the market from our show organizers further grows the base. That means almost every pro in Ontario has a string of hunters they either ride, train or both. That’s where the money is.
So at any given Palgrave (Caledon Pan Am Equestrian Park) A show, you will find three hunter rings running from 7am to 7pm in order to accommodate the roughly 210 amateur-ridden horses that have to get through the ring. Add to that another 210 or so junior-ridden horses and 100 ponies every week… And I’m not counting up the pro rides during the week. Some of those are also ridden by juniors or ammys on weekends, and some are not. And there is some kind of specialty class most weeks, whether that’s a Derby, Handy or Classic for one division or another.
Jumper numbers here are significantly lower than hunter divisions, with the 0.9s, 1.0s well-populated and 1.10s being in constant flux as riders move up and down. Get to 1.20m and above and the numbers drop off quite a bit.
I have not studied entry demographics in Alberta or BC, but I’m willing to guess it is inverse to Ontario, with higher numbers in the jumpers. Because your venues are focused on the jumpers. Spruce doesn’t even have hunters, right? So it makes little sense for a professional to cultivate a client base of ammy hunter riders/owners.
Not to give credence to a stereotype or anything, but I love how even the disagreements between Canadians on the BB are so polite and civilized. :lol:
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