Question About Breeding This Mare

[ponies4ever]

Hi - This is my first post, but I think I would benefit from the collective wisdom of COTH breeders.

My adult daughter has a W/TB mare that we want to breed to a TB in 2014. The foal would be for our own use and barring unforseen circumstances, we would expect to give it a lifelong home. I need some feedback about the appropriateness of breeding this mare.

Pros: Mare has excellent conformation and is extremely athletic. She is successful in Novice level eventing despite being slightly under 13.2 and ridden by my 5’5" daughter. She has good grounds manners with people and is fun, fun, fun to ride. The ideal foal would be an exact duplicate of this mare, just a hand bigger.

My concern: she is an Alpha mare in the extreme and is just a bear around other horses when turned out with them (when under saddle she shows her displeasure when other horses approach too closely by pinning her ears and swishing her tail, but has never “acted out”). She almost terrorizes any submissive horse that is with her, and will engage in knock down -drag out fights if turned out with another dominant horse. As a result, she lives happily alone in her own small pasture with other horses nearby. I am wondering how a mare like this would adjust to motherhood. Could she turn on her foal and treat it the way she treats all other horses? I would not want to be hand raising a rejected foal. Have any other breeders had experience with a mare like this?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[crosscreeksh]

We had the most gorgeous black/4 white legs/blaze, 10+mover, super well bred mare with a disposition like your mare’s. She DID live with 6 other mares in a 20 acre pasture, but when first introduced her to the herd she challenged and defeated (no blood or injuries) our life long, alfa/“queen” mare…who was a good hand taller and 300 pounds heavier. There were never any more battles, but herd dynamics went seriously south!! The witchy mare was not a “leader”, just a bully. Fast forward to foaling time…I lived in total fear of what she would do with her first foal and was present when she foaled. Labor was a horror. With each contraction the mare went nutz!! (I’ve never seen this in a mare EVER). Mare flipped out and repeatedly cast herself in a 14x20 stall and when the colt was half out, she rolled up against a side wall with her butt against the end wall!! I got hold of the foal’s front legs with a towel and with the next contraction pulled him free. I waited with held breath for mare’s first reaction…if it had been hostile I was prepared to exit the stall WITH baby in tow!! Mare’s reaction was a gentle nicker and immediate acceptance…but I did stay close for the next few hours!! Childhood was basically uneventful, but even her own colt would react fearfully when in close quarters with his own mother. She never “did” anything hostile to her foal or other 5 mares/foals, but they we all very aware of her presence and would vacate any close quarters. Long story short…when the colt was “uneventfully” weaned at 6 months, I set a deadline of 30 days for the mare to be off the farm (and out of the zip code)!!! I sold her to a woman half way across the country with full disclosure for about 10% of what I paid for her!! IMO…the best bred, most gorgeous mare in the world with a *itchy" disposition is NOT worth risking the safety of our other mares and foals. Life is just too short and there are too many pleasant mares around to accept the risk!! Just my experience!!

[sixpoundfarm]

I would have concern for the safety of her possible foal, or her turnout companions and/or their foals. I would not want to segregate a mare and foal if I had other options.

[TKR]

She might be fine with her own foal - because it is “hers”. I dunno. Never had this issue. If you can be absolutely SURE you would be on top of her foaling and be 100% committed to being there, it is worth a try. Otherwise, maybe not. I have to wonder if some sort of homeopathic meds might make a difference for her. Good luck!
PennyG

[exvet]

I have a section C welsh cob mare who is much like the OP describes except I finally found an alpha mare (another cob and a D so a full hand taller) that could out do her. This little mare of 13 hands would beat the crap out of a rather large oldenburg mare we had and really anyone else who dared get near her or her food until I put her in with the larger welsh cob mare. I ended up keeping those two together and keeping all other mares together in a separate group.

Because her former owner warned me I would have to be careful turning her out with other horses I still had some concerns with what she would be like with a foal but fortunately she was probably one of the best dam’s I’ve ever seen even as a maiden. Both mares (the section C and the larger cob mare) foaled within 2 weeks of each other and despite both being very strongly opinionated alpha mares tolerated each others’ foal too.

I have her bred back and will hopefully have the same harmonious outcome this spring but time will tell; because really you just never know. This mare is very people oriented and not a pain under saddle. Though she’s a challenge in management because of her short man syndrome/alpha mare attitude, I think she brings enough other good aspects to the table to continue to breed her. Of the two foals, her filly is the dominant one but not overtly nasty way and so far is a piece of cake to work with too.

[Laurierace]

Rule number one of breeding is don’t do it if you wouldn’t be head over heels over getting a carbon copy of the mare. Only you can decide if that is the case or not. The vast majority of mares regardless of how nasty they are to others are fine towards their own foals. They can be overprotective though so you should have a plan b in case she needs to be turned out alone with her foal through weaning.

[JWB]

My normally sweet mare turned into an evil witch while she was pregnant. This lasted on while she had her foal with her and although there were a few attempts to put her in with the other brood mare and other horses, we always cut it short because we were afraid she’d injure herself or the other foal.

She was a maiden and spent the first few hours alternately hovering over her baby and having a fit when he’d try to nurse, but once she came to terms with that (a few exhausted hours with someone at her head and someone holding up a back leg) she was a great, albeit overprotective mother.

Most mares, however nasty, will accept their own babies. Just have a plan in place for solo turnout for the pair.

[fire_911medic]

Had an older mare that I wanted a baby out of very badly. She had been there and done that, and had earned her right to be bred. However, she was a barely 15 hand hell on wheels (her nickname from other people who worked there was the "barn bi+^&). It was aptly earned for she had her favorite people and if you weren’t on her list, sorry about your luck. If you were, she was a gem and would give you the heart out of her body.

Decided to breed her after ensuring I picked someone with a good temperment. Wasn’t going to potentially add fuel to the fire. During pregnancy she was a dream. Was the most quiet and kind mare I had ever been around. She literally foaled next to me - she didn’t want to be alone. Took to being a mother like a pro and couldn’t ask for a better outcome. I was prepared to have a witch from the fires below which fortunately wasn’t the case. We only did that experiment once and if she hadn’t been the mare she was, I probably would have passed on trying.

She was a bully in the field full of mares considerably larger than herself and when she showed up the waters parted. I turned her out with geldings because she much preferred their company. She was that female that had all guy friends because she was a total tomboy. I decided not to risk it with the other mares and babies and she went out by herself until weaned. In my experience, it isn’t worth the risk to all parties involved and better just to do individual turnout with others in the next paddock over or whatever rather than have a potentially dangerous mix. Don’t want a baby to accidentally end up on the receiving end of a mare’s hind end.

[Molly_Malone]

If she’s awful with the foal, what will you do - how will you handle it? Do you have the resources to have effectively an orphan foal?

Secondly, do you have the ability to keep her and the foal with no shared fencelines? Mares can nail their foals in the process of defending them.

[everafterfarm]

My best mare is quite dominant. I would not ever try to turn her out with another dominant mare, she is too valuable and I don’t want to take any chances. She is however, fine with submissive horses. She is also the BEST mother I have ever had to date! She is also fine with her submissive mare buddy, and if buddy has a foal too, she is good to it as well. I have also used her as a weaning partner for another foal.

The sub mare was a bitch to her filly! I had to tie her up at feeding time while she ate her grain, or she would attack her filly. Was good to her in all other respects though.

I think you just need to know your mare, and go from there. Of course you never know how they will react to a foal until they have one, but it’s not too common for a mare to be awful to her own baby(it does happen though). In my experience, the 2 dominant mares I bred were both fine mothers, they just had to be managed around the other horses. Her being dominant in the field would not have any bearing on me personally when deciding to breed a mare. In case you are wondering, the 3 foals I’ve had by dom mares, one is showing with his young ammy owner and is a doll, another is just being started and is showing to be a “pleaser” and learns quickly, the other is just a weanling so we will see.