Question about Eventing "Double-Dipping" Trends: US vs Europe

[Kirikou]

I’ve been curious about something and would love to hear others’ thoughts or experiences.

In my region of the US (Midwest), a lot of local pros who “double-dip” (by that I mean they actively compete or train in eventing and another discipline) seem to do so in dressage. It seems fairly common around here for eventing pros to also show in recognized dressage competitions and/or run a parallel dressage business alongside their eventing program.

However, when I look at riders and pros back home in continental Europe, those who double-dip seem much more likely to do it in show jumping alongside their eventing careers.

Since the scoring weight of dressage in eventing is the same in both regions, there has to be more influencing this pattern than just the importance of dressage to eventing scores, surely?

I’m curious whether this difference affects the way people tend to ride, particularly when it comes to rhythm and balance across phases. Does leaning toward show jumping vs dressage as a second discipline shape a rider’s baseline way of going, system of training, or even course management in subtle ways?

Would love to hear from anyone who’s noticed this trend as well or has insight into why it might exist?

[trubandloki]

@Kirikou

I’ve been curious about something and would love to hear others’ thoughts or experiences.

In my region of the US (Midwest), a lot of local pros who “double-dip” (by that I mean they actively compete or train in eventing and another discipline) seem to do so in dressage. It seems fairly common around here for eventing pros to also show in recognized dressage competitions and/or run a parallel dressage business alongside their eventing program.

However, when I look at riders and pros back home in continental Europe, those who double-dip seem much more likely to do it in show jumping alongside their eventing careers.

Since the scoring weight of dressage in eventing is the same in both regions, there has to be more influencing this pattern than just the importance of dressage to eventing scores, surely?

I’m curious whether this difference affects the way people tend to ride, particularly when it comes to rhythm and balance across phases. Does leaning toward show jumping vs dressage as a second discipline shape a rider’s baseline way of going, system of training, or even course management in subtle ways?

Would love to hear from anyone who’s noticed this trend as well or has insight into why it might exist?

The term double-dipping has a negative connotation in my head, but I am sure you do not mean it to be a negative.

In my opinion, I would guess one of the main reasons is that dressage shows are run similar to events, with ride times and all that.
Doing Jumpers would require them to go to rated hunter/jumper shows. There are not lots of just jumper shows (at least not that I know of).

[Kirikou]

@trubandloki

The term double-dipping has a negative connotation in my head, but I am sure you do not mean it to be a negative.

Ah, sorry about that - definitely not meant in a negative way!

[FromTheGalaxy]

I would assume it has a lot to do with time and cost associated with doing jumpers vs dressage in the US. As @trubandloki pointed out above, dressage shows have ride times while H/J shows in the US, even rated shows, are a crap shoot of when you are going to ride. There’s no popping in, jumping a couple rounds, and then heading home same day. Additionally, the cost to show at rated H/J shows in the US is extremely high. I know plenty of eventing professionals who will go to schooling jumper shows to practice their show jumping rounds, but I can’t imagine many that can afford to do both rated eventing and rated jumpers.

[Amberley]

@Kirikou

Since the scoring weight of dressage in eventing is the same in both regions, there has to be more influencing this pattern than just the importance of dressage to eventing scores, surely?

Not to be mean but they aren’t good enough to be competitive in the show jumping circuit which is enormously competitive (and expensive). SJ riders competing on the recognized circuit in the US are pretty good by any standard. The average amateur or junior who takes it seriously is going to be far more skilled and experienced in jumping 1.2m to 1.45m tracks and just generally riding and managing horses at that level than most event pros. And in SJ heavy areas there are lots of GP level local pros to choose from for a coach. So they wouldn’t get any clients and most US pros depend financially on teaching and training rather than developing young horses like many in Europe do, which gives them more freedom to compete themselves. Logistically it’s also a major pita to show jumpers and event in the USA due to distance and the HJ shows being a travelling circus that runs on $100 bills. It’s much easier in Europe.

otoh there are tons and tons of people who want to show lower level dressage at a chill, low cost barn, do some trail riding and maybe a hunter pace or two. They want the structure and social life of lessons but aren’t fussed about moving up the levels. Event trainers fill that niche a lot of places.

[AskMyAccountant.17]

I think it may be more regional. In my area I only know of our professional eventers/eventing barns “double-dipping” into show-jumping, taking their barns to (WEC, Tryon, Wellington, a few other A-rated shows) I couldn’t tell you more than five professionals in the southeast who go to rated-dressage shows (publicly) alongside horse trials. I see eventing barns cross-posting their attendance at h/j shows all the time. Maybe if you live in Aiken or those areas you would attend due to location. ( I guess we do see a few eventers posting their attendance at SV’s dressage shows, but those professionals also live in Aiken)

[Amberley]

I think it’s also what level they are competing at. The 4 and 5* riders are a lot more likely to be going to recognized SJ shows. You are in UL land in Aiken or Ocala, and you are also in the land of easy haul in to HJ shows. There are maybe a couple more pockets like that in the entire country.

Where I am most event barns stay at T or below and have a lot of low level dressage clients. There is no way any of them would be competitive at rated HJ competitions. 20 years ago this was not the case so much, we had quite a few UL people based here and lots of C, B and A rated shows you could haul in to and do the jumpers but now there is exactly one UL rider and she’s always competing elsewhere and almost no affordable local competition over 1.1m. It doesn’t make any financial sense for them to pursue it seriously as a competitor or coach.

[beowulf]

@Kirikou

Would love to hear from anyone who’s noticed this trend as well or has insight into why it might exist?

They’re using SJ and dressage shows to sharpen their competitive edge for eventing.

Several barns local to me that are eventing focused also go down south (Aiken, Ocala) and compete regularly in the recognized jumpers and/or dressage while down there. Cross-discipline training has been around a lot time and some trainers have bigger client strings that way.

[Kirikou]

@beowulf

They’re using SJ and dressage shows to sharpen their competitive edge for eventing.

Thanks for the replies! Just to clarify, my original question wasn’t really about why eventers use jumper and dressage shows to stay sharp for eventing itself. That’s a given, and I completely agree that both are valuable tools for preparing horses and riders. What I was asking is why, in some parts of the US (like here in the upper Midwest), it seemed to me that a lot of local/mid-level pros actively compete in dressage as a second discipline, while in continental Europe it’s far more common to see eventers (at all levels) also competing in show jumping (but not so much in dressage).

I really appreciate the points you all brought up about how dressage shows are often run more like events with scheduled ride times (it still baffles me that h/j shows here don’t have scheduled times for rides…), and how there’s a perhaps bigger market for adult amateurs and lower-level students who enjoy “dressage” but aren’t necessarily jumping the big jumps. That makes a lot of sense!
Also interesting to hear about the regional difference!

Follow up question: for those of us in areas where eventers seem to double-dip more into dressage than jumpers (as opposed to the 4*/5* riders you all mentioned out East/South), do we think that shapes the way those riders go cross-country at all? Does it lean a bit more toward a dressage-influenced ride in terms of central balance, etc versus a more forward, show-jump-based system across the country and over terrain?

[Amberley]

@beowulf

They’re using SJ and dressage shows to sharpen their competitive edge for eventing.

What Kirikou is talking about are people who are not doing it for practice but are actually competitive in SJ on it’s own with (most likely) two strings of horses. Or have a business developing and selling young horses, many of who go the SJ route, because they are able to develop either. That is very common in Europe and I can think of exactly 3 people who do it in the USA, and one of them is very half hearted about that side of things.

Kirikou- there are a lot of very good riders in the USA who never get a shot at the eventing big time due to geography. If you are unwilling or unable to move to a few areas it is really, really hard to ride at the top and support yourself no matter how good you are. Impossible really. Doing the SJ thing in the US is also a major lifestyle commitment to traveling al the time and attending week long competitions twice a month. Dressage is far more chill in the USA and a good way to make some money and have a side business for the eventing with a skill you already have while living where you want to live and not uprooting your family (or getting divorced!).

ETA to answer your question- yes! Where I am event riders do not jump nearly enough imho and are not practiced enough at it or very comfortable jumping a long course of many fences. xc seems to usually go OK but the show jumping phase here is typically absolute carnage at the lower levels.

[beowulf]

@Amberley

What Kirikou is talking about are people who are not doing it for practice but are actually competitive in SJ on it’s own with (most likely) two strings of horses.

They are one in the same here (Area 1). You can have clients in both disciplines and be competitive in both disciplines. It’s not new where I live. As for why they choose one or the other, I imagine in Europe SJ classes are easier to come by and not hamstrung by the geographical nightmare that is the US.

[Kirikou]

@Amberley

Kirikou- there are a lot of very good riders in the USA who never get a shot at the eventing big time due to geography. If you are unwilling or unable to move to a few areas it is really, really hard to ride at the top and support yourself no matter how good you are. Impossible really. Doing the SJ thing in the US is also a major lifestyle commitment to traveling al the time and attending week long competitions twice a month. Dressage is far more chill in the USA and a good way to make some money and have a side business for the eventing with a skill you already have while living where you want to live and not uprooting your family (or getting divorced!).

Yes, thank you, the geography thing is such a good point! I always “forget” how big it is until I need to get somewhere and realize I could have driven through multiple countries back home by the time I get to my destination!

And you’re so right about the upper-level circuits & their full-on lifestyles. Curious how those shows - particularly the H/J ones have evolved to something that is so out of reach for many here, when there are still “options” available back home. (side note: I have a feeling that barrel racing/gaming/rodeo circuits around here are where horse-crazy kids without family backing end up as something more affordable/accessible. Whereas they tend to end up in the jumper world in continental Europe).

[Texarkana]

I can think of a number of riders who compete in eventing and show jumping here in the US. And I can think of some Europeans/euro-based off the top of my head who compete in eventing and dressage.

I really don’t think it’s anything more than a combination of access and preference.

[Amberley]

Like everything in the US in 2025 horse showing is optimally designed to suck the money from your bank account and feed it to a business interest. We really need to go back to europe where I can afford to actually live.

[sheltona01]

Living in the Midwest, I’d say it really depends on the geography, what the clients want to do, and the local culture. I know in Minnesota, many event trainers cover a bit of all three because there are both rated and unrated shows available across those disciplines in the Twin Cities area. But here in Omaha, there’s a bit of a cultural divide among the disciplines, and there aren’t as many shows available. So as always with horses, the answer is it depends.

[Amberley]

@beowulf

They are one in the same here (Area 1). You can have clients in both disciplines and be competitive in both disciplines

Who is competitive in the professional divisions in both disciplines in Area I?