Question About Hunter Derby

[phippsie62]

My mare is a looker–which may count for something, dunno–but more important, she’s blessed with a naturally rhythmic canter and can make it down the lines in the required number of strides no problem.
In addition, she’s a graceful, round jumper with great knees and can take all the fences in stride. This is her preferred way of going.

We have been training in the jumpers, where I light her up and we get a power-canter to the base. Sometimes we jump out of stride; other times my mare pats the ground in front of the jump first.

We’ve been successful in the jumpers, but my former instructor says she’ s international derby material.

I’d love to do the derby, but I don’t want to ride to “find the distance,” picking and fussing to get that perfect “hunter gap.” Tried it, absolutely hated riding that way.

So, considering her other virtues, would my mare be competitive in the derby, say at regional shows? (Not doing the big time and no ambition to.)

Plus, it would be so fun to wear a shadbelly!

So, your thoughts?

[mmeqcenter]

@phippsie62

We have been training in the jumpers, where I light her up and we get a power-canter to the base. Sometimes we jump out of stride; other times my mare pats the ground in front of the jump first.

What height are you showing?
By “pats the ground” do you mean she’s chipping in?

You shouldn’t be regularly chipping into fences in jumpers, especially if you want to move up in height, and regular chips would almost certainly make a quality horse non-competitive in hunters. There’s no “picking and fussing” in hunters/hunter derbies, there’s a quality, forward canter and seeing a distance several strides away and quietly adjusting the canter if needed.

[eclipse]

@phippsie62

I’d love to do the derby, but I don’t want to ride to “find the distance,” picking and fussing to get that perfect “hunter gap.” Tried it, absolutely hated riding that way.

We don’t ride like that to get a perfect distance in the hunters! We find our distances just like in the jumper ring….with a good canter, counting the rhythm and making the correct choices (if needed) from 3 strides away, not by picking and chipping! Also remember, Hunter fences have much more fill than jumper fences….and that’s one reason we don’t jump “right from the base! A proper takeoff spot is 6 ft away ……that’s why you walk courses with the extra stride for takeoff and landing room! I do not ride my hunter courses any different to my jumper courses…except in the jumpers I will just do more inside turns, and it’s the good inside turns that win jumper classes not running he’ll bent for leather!

[BLBGP]

There shouldn’t be picking and fussing in a hunter class.

[Sing_Mia_Song]

You should absolutely be jumping out of stride in hunter derbies, if we are both talking about a forward, open canter where the distance naturally develops as you go.

[GraceLikeRain]

If a horse is international derby quality then I don’t see why it wouldn’t be regional quality. If your current trainer was the one who left you thinking hunters was about picking and micromanaging at the base, they may not be the best fit. I am very far from a hunter rider but the good ones see their distance way out, slightly adjust, and then work really hard to do nothing in the last few strides except stay out of the way. Perhaps your trainer can help you link up with a really good hunter trainer in the area to help you develop that feel.

[Night_Flight]

OP, if you are interested in linking to a video of your horse jumping around, you might get more accurate feedback about your questions, since right now all anyone can do is make guesses based on your own opinions of your horse.

[phippsie62]

No, that’s not what I mean. No chipping.

[phippsie62]

Yes, that’s what I’m talking about. I’m lucky, in that my mare has a natural way to the fences, and the distance naturally develops as we go.

[AmmyHunter]

@phippsie62

We have been training in the jumpers, where I light her up and we get a power-canter to the base. Sometimes we jump out of stride; other times my mare pats the ground in front of the jump first.

We’ve been successful in the jumpers, but my former instructor says she’ s international derby material.

I’d love to do the derby, but I don’t want to ride to “find the distance,” picking and fussing to get that perfect “hunter gap.” Tried it, absolutely hated riding that way.

As people have said, how you describe riding in the jumpers (lighting her up and the occasional patting of the ground before the jump) isn’t how you would need to ride the derby round, and neither is “picking and fussing” – that’s not how (good) hunter riders find the pretty distance. Plenty of horses cross over between jumpers and derbies, but I think you need to get a better idea of how a national derby round is ridden before you can really say whether you and your mare would be competitive. There is plenty of video online for comparison. The Aiken Charity Horse Show has video online of a number of rounds, and you can hear how they were scored as you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awBhvilc3NQ That would give you a good frame of reference to compare to, although that show has gotten more competitive than a lot of other regional shows, it draws a lot of top hunter pros these days. So, I’m not sure whose rounds are in this video, but not every show will have the depth of competition in the derby that this one may have, FYI. Tryon used to make their winning rounds viewable but unfortunately I think they charge for even the winning trip now. The best bet would be to watch a derby class live at the type of show you want to compete at.

[mmeqcenter]

So what exactly does “pats the ground” mean?

[BAC]

That’s what I want to know.

[supershorty628]

I’m guessing that OP is using patting the ground to refer to riding up to that deeper distance, the jumper spot as it were.

But yeah, to echo everyone else, the hunter spot should be coming right out of stride. That’s the point. It should be smooth and seamless, not achieved through picking.

[CPL713]

Listen. Will someone please show this to my trainer and inform her she needs to get off my back when I micromanage my horse on our hunter courses?! It sounds like that’s what I’m supposed to be doing, but I’ve been getting in trouble for it!

All kidding aside, I would question my trainer if they are the one who led me to believe hunter riders are picking and fussing with their horses to “find a distance”. If your horse naturally jumps well out of a stride and can maintain that rhythm around a course, sounds like they might make a lovely derby horse and you should go have fun with it. Of course hunter riders are having to make adjustments and do some piloting, but constantly picking is what ruins a good round.

[CPL713]

And the ability to force yourself to do next to nothing other than support and be ready to react only if needed in the last few strides is SO HARD. Heaven help me.

[phippsie62]

Yes, supershorty 628 is saying it better than I did. In jumpers I’m taught to “ride to the base,” that deeper distance. “Patting the ground” is an expression my trainer uses to describe the horse gathering power in the hindquarters and “getting set”–the two front feet get organized (pat pat) and the horse puts in a lovely bascule over the fence. Very useful maneuver in front of a big, wide oxer!.

This as opposed to chipping, in which the horse puts in an awkward half stride in front of the fence.

In a hunter derby, the ideal ride --as I understand it–requires a steady, rhythmic canter that’s unbroken at the fences. The whole ride should flow like water.

Further question, though: Does the horse have to go with her nose poked out, and do I have to throw away the reins before the fence in the name of “softening”? Just kidding, but I know there’s a desirable hunter “frame” and at my last show I watched a great many “rein floppers” who got rewarded by the judges even though it looked like touch-and-go whether some of those horses would actually clear the fence.

I guess I can hope that the judge at our first derby will care about “brilliance” because we will be deficient in frame and rein management…

And reply to CPL713: You said it!!

[RND]

@phippsie62

Further question, though: Does the horse have to go with her nose poked out, and do I have to throw away the reins before the fence in the name of “softening”? Just kidding, but I know there’s a desirable hunter “frame” and at my last show I watched a great many “rein floppers” who got rewarded by the judges even though it looked like touch-and-go whether some of those horses would actually clear the fence.

I guess I can hope that the judge at our first derby will care about “brilliance” because we will be deficient in frame and rein management…

I get so sick of this type of passive aggressive post - “Gee, I’d love to do a hunter derby and I’m told that my horse moves and jumps like a top derby winner, but I just don’t know if I can ride crappy enough to fit in with the other hunter riders”.

Either post a video so we can see your awesomeness or just go do it and see what happens. No one is going to care what you do with your reins.

[mmeqcenter]

Forreal. Everything about OP’s last reply really rubs me the wrong way.

[eclipse]

We do NOT throw our reins away before the fence! If I did that my horse would let me know in a hurry….just like in the jumper ring! If you have such an amazing moving horse, show us a video so we can see exactly what you’re doing ….again, a hunter round isn’t ridden much differently to a beautiful jumper round, we need to move up or shorten our distances or sometimes ride a honking long one and look like we “meant to do that”….we don’t just “sit there”, we just have to make it look seamless and invisible!

Good Hunters also power off the ground using their hind end and have a gorgeous bascule, they also need to be in a frame and using their back ends…EXACTLY the same way a jumper is ridden! ….now try to ride and sit that and make your aids all look Invisible….THAT is how a hunter course should be ridden! If it looks like we are “floating the reins and doing nothing “….perfect, Ive ridden a great round and it took a heck of a lot of work!

[GraceLikeRain]

@phippsie62

at my last show I watched a great many “rein floppers” who got rewarded by the judges even though it looked like touch-and-go whether some of those horses would actually clear the fence.

I can think of no greater testament to a horses balance, rhythm, and the riders eye to be able to float the reins in front of a 3’6 fence and have nothing change. To me it is analogous to watching a really good dressage test. Looking effortless and that the rider “is just sitting there” is the ultimate compliment.