Question about Leg Yield

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8652376]
I have that book, lorilu. Its very good.
Are you talking about the hp or hi in your first paragraph?
HI front legs never cross.
HP is a combo of HI and SI. Its not just HI, you have to add in more aids then just HI to get HP.[/QUOTE]

No, you don’t need more aids at all. It’s the way you see the HP that makes it more difficult, and that we are used to practice HI along the wall which helps too.
Pretend there is a wall on your diagonal.

There really is no SI in a HP. You may use it as a way to straighten or lift the inside shoulder momentarily while doing HP but it sure is not a combinaison.
SI sets you up for the direction of the HP (front legs can go straight on the diagonal.) You then bring the haunches in on that diagonal and voilà!

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=alibi_18;8652774]
No, you don’t need more aids at all. It’s the way you see the HP that makes it more difficult, and that we are used to practice HI along the wall which helps too.
Pretend there is a wall on your diagonal.

There really is no SI in a HP. You may use it as a way to straighten or lift the inside shoulder momentarily while doing HP but it sure is not a combinaison.
SI sets you up for the direction of the HP (front legs can go straight on the diagonal.) You then bring the haunches in on that diagonal and voilà! :)[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the aids for HP is a sideways leg, sure. Maybe aid was the wrong word, but I’m using my whole body to control/place the L,R shoulders, and L/R haunches, and the bend. This is where SI comes in for me- it really does depend on your situation and your horses’ strenghts and weaknesses.

If there wasn’t already a SI inherent in the HP, why is it so easy then to start from SI to HP, or come direct into a SI from the HP?

But no, the actual movement isn’t hard provided you setup correctly. Same or shoulder in- its all in the planning.

Does this all goes in line with the FEI definition? eh, no, that doesn’t talk about SI. I agree… Same result though.

We are saying the same thing at the core of this.

[alibi_18]

We’re not saying the same thing.

The reaso why we can use SI prior to HP is, like I wrote before, it sets up the front legs/shoulders in the right direction. You can draw a straight line that will be the “wall” from which you’ll do a HI.

Ex: Your horse is tracking right, in a shoulder-in along the wall (K - H) .
Stop it at E keeping the shoulder-in position.
Your horse’s hind legs are straight toward H
Your horse’s head/shoulders/front legs are all pointing straight at M.

IMAGINE that the wall move and now goes from E to M.
Your horse’s head/shoulders/front legs are still all pointing straight at M but this as became your line of travel.
Hind legs/Haunches are now traveling inside of that line. Making it an HI on a diagonal line.

The more bend for you SI the shorter the diagonal it will be. Steeper HP.
So a HP is NOT a SI but SI sets the HP correctly.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=alibi_18;8652963]
We’re not saying the same thing.

The reaso why we can use SI prior to HP is, like I wrote before, it sets up the front legs/shoulders in the right direction. You can draw a straight line that will be the “wall” from which you’ll do a HI.

Ex: Your horse is tracking right, in a shoulder-in along the wall (K - H) .
Stop it at E keeping the shoulder-in position.
Your horse’s hind legs are straight toward H
Your horse’s head/shoulders/front legs are all pointing straight at M.

IMAGINE that the wall move and now goes from E to M.
Your horse’s head/shoulders/front legs are still all pointing straight at M but this as became your line of travel.
Hind legs/Haunches are now traveling inside of that line. Making it an HI on a diagonal line.

The more bend for you SI the shorter the diagonal it will be. Steeper HP.
So a HP is NOT a SI but SI sets the HP correctly.[/QUOTE]

Right, I never said it was exactly a shoulder in, it’s the similar idea of positioning the shoulder and bend.

the shoulder still leads - Right front is ahead of the left hind. But yes, you are right about the feet pointing differently in each moment. I was thinking at this more from a rider aspect, how it feels, less from the the horses’ POV. Thanks for reminding me to consider that aspect. I take it from either SI or HI, depending on what my horse needs.

http://losalamosdressage.com/IMAGES/drawings/HalfPass.jpg

[atlatl]

[QUOTE=alibi_18;8652774]
…

There really is no SI in a HP. You may use it as a way to straighten or lift the inside shoulder momentarily while doing HP but it sure is not a combination.
SI sets you up for the direction of the HP (front legs can go straight on the diagonal.) You then bring the haunches in on that diagonal and voilà! :)[/QUOTE]

I find that with a horse that tends to get the haunches leading in HP, it is helpful to turn the shoulders first and then bring the haunches along.

I’m currently riding a horse that isn’t quite as easy to bend and if you point his chest in the direction you want to go, he tends to try to go straight that way. So for him, I almost think HI and then take the body sideways.

YMMV

[lorilu]

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8652376]
I have that book, lorilu. Its very good.
Are you talking about the hp or hi in your first paragraph?
HI front legs never cross.
HP is a combo of HI and SI. Its not just HI, you have to add in more aids then just HI to get HP.[/QUOTE]

Yep, got my "H"s mixed up. Of course I mean HP/

[SendenHorse]

Ok! Thanks for clarifying!

[suzy]

If you watch videos of any of the top riders, you will notice that they put their horses in a shoulder-in position before starting the half pass. This not only establishes the correct bend but also ensures that the horse is not leading with his hindquarters which is a common error that will cost the rider a lot of points.

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=suzy;8655025]
If you watch videos of any of the top riders, you will notice that they put their horses in a shoulder-in position before starting the half pass. This not only establishes the correct bend but also ensures that the horse is not leading with his hindquarters which is a common error that will cost the rider a lot of points.[/QUOTE]

Right, I thought everyone starts from SI? It may look like HI in a diagonal (no disagreement there)…

but I agree that if you ride just the HI ideas, you loose the proper positioning.

[suzy]

Yes. Position the horse in SI, then ride HI on a diagonal line.

[lorilu]

Position the horse in SI to get him on the diagonal line (and engage his inside hind leg), then go a step or two on the diagonal line, and move the haunches over. Unless you and your horse are really talented, dont expect a good HI right from the rail…

[SendenHorse]

[QUOTE=lorilu;8655770]
Position the horse in SI to get him on the diagonal line (and engage his inside hind leg), then go a step or two on the diagonal line, and move the haunches over. Unless you and your horse are really talented, dont expect a good HI right from the rail…[/QUOTE]

Right, as I said, SI and HI are related to HP.

[lorilu]

yes, just added the comment about those few steps of straight on the diagonal. I don’t think most of us can go from SI directly to HP… (yet)