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Question about Renegade fit

Endurance and Trail Riding
#1

Hello,

I am using hood boots for the first time. I got Renegade Vipers. After trying one pair that was snug immediately after a trim, I went up one size to the 150x150s. Those slide on nicely and stayed on fine for our first ride of a few miles with mostly walking and a little trotting, through water and a little mud. I think they’re great. But, I have two possibly related questions about fit. I emailed the company yesterday and haven’t heard back yet. I expect I will, since they seem pretty responsive, but I thought I’d check here too.

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  1. I set the pastern straps to have full overlap of the two sides of the Velcro, but they are really loose. Is there any way to adjust things so that I can make the. a little snugger?

  2. There is a bit of a flip flop sound when he walks. When I hold his foot, I can pull a decent sized gap at the back of the boot, so I’m guessing it’s a flip flop movement as well. Is that normal? Anything I should adjust?

Thanks!

#2

That annoying flip-flop sound is typical for the Renegades. Drives me crazy. At least hearing it you know the boot is still on the foot!

Regarding the velcro that holds the heel captivator in place - you can get a shorter set from Renegade. (It will cost you $)

#3

Yes, you can get smaller size pastern straps. They are supposed to be fairly loose, but depending on your horse’s build you may need a smaller size. I had to do this for my Arab who wore a size 2 boot, but needed a size 0 strap. I don’t remember it being particularly expensive to get the additional strap.

#4

Thanks! I can get used to the sound as long as I know it’s normal. They made such a difference to my guy. Our trails are pretty gravelly, and he seemed so much more comfortable.

#5

They are a really nice boot, super tough, and wear MUCH longer than the Gloves. The downside (I’ve found in my personal use) is the amount of debris that collects in the toe area. Compared to the Gloves that are so tight as to prevent any debris from making their way inside the boot, the Renegades seem to attract tons of “filler” due to the open backs - mud, gravel, grass - you name it, my Renegades have brought it back home!

#6

Here’s the link to order. They’re $5.25 each. http://www.renegadehoofboot.com/pasternstrap.aspx

#7

Well, I’m about to give the Renegades a C- for use. Was planning a 13-mile conditioning ride this morning on very rolling gravel roads, but only got 4.5 miles before one of the back Renegades blew out. The cable broke. This is now the third boot that this is happened to on me while I was riding. Fortunately the route is two loops and we were only 2 miles from home. I simply attached the broken Renegade to my horse’s breast collar and rode home. Once home I took off the remaining Renegade and checked the cable. Sure enough, it was frayed, too. Probably had a mile or two still left in it before it too would have broken.

Neither of these boots had any stress placed on them via the velcro being too tight, or the fit of the boot or heel captivator being wrong. Everything was textbook perfect regarding use. Except for perhaps the roughness of the terrain being rolling gravel roads. It could have caused perhaps too much internal back and forth stress which finally fatigued the cables. These boots probably have over 250 - 300 miles on them. That seems to be about the maximum that I can get from them before I have cable fatigue.

My son already told me that he would replace the cables for me, for which he was given a $300 bottle of Seagram’s VO (XO?) whiskey (bottled and sealed in 1975). That was just a lucky gift - he happened to pop in for a quick visit while we were cleaning out the old liquor cabinet and finding quite a few bottles that were 30-40 years old and never opened. He was more than happy to take them, and more than happy to tell me he’d fix any boot I wanted him to fix. So I ordered all of the parts to replace the cables on two sets of Renegades, and will henceforth only use them on the pleasure riding pony. My endurance horse is now going to wear Gloves on all four, rather than Gloves on the front and Renegades on the back.

I will give Lander Industries - the maker of Renegades - a big A+ for their online ordering. No sooner had I gotten offline from ordering the new cables when I received an email that they had put my package in the mail. Excellent!

#8

You want the pastern strap a bit lose, but like others suggested, I think smaller ones might work for your dainty horse (I had a friend who got larger ones for her horse with “cankles”)

I think I’m just used to the flip-slop noise. Mine don’t collect any extra debris, until the hoof gets a bit longer than desired. Then they stay on but I end up with dirt/mud in there, though it doesn’t’ seem to effect fit.

Sorry about the broken cables Gothedistance. I think different horses/terrain wear the boots differently. I was about to post about how I’ve only had 2-3 cable breaks in probably 3000 miles of use, but I also check the cables really carefully, and at the first sign on wear/broken wires, I’ll replace them. I don’t find it too tedious, but then again I like to tinker! I also just carry a spare in a boot bag, too hard to fix on the side of the trail!

I just did 14 miles on rough terrain, with no issues. I did just replace my velcro because I had more than 200 miles on it and after my last off-trail excursion they were so filled with foxtails I tossed all the velco.

On the other hand, I can’t keep them on hind feet at competition speed at all. Casual rides, fine. Add in speed, no way. It’s always something with boots, just find what works for you.

#9

Yeah, irish_horse - you’re already replacing the cables, thus circumventing them breaking on their own. I could do the same - just earmark a time when I think they are getting fatigued, and replace them - but…I refuse to spend that time diddling around with the boots. When I spend $100 on one boot, I expect it to last longer than what it is lasting. I’m already replacing the velco and the rubber bands. Asking me to replace the cables, too? Nah. That’s where I draw the line.

And I do check the boot cables, every use, albeit (I will admit) superficially. Saw nothing the matter before I put them on this morning, but I’m thinking I didn’t look in the right spot - the site where they ultimately frayed.

Gonna stick with the Gloves. Might not get the wear off them I’d like, but there are less parts to go wrong with them, and my mare does well in them. I am trying really, really, REALLY hard not to have to go back to putting shoes on. :no: My back just doesn’t want to tolerate doing all that farrier work anymore.

#10

I have a set of Renegade Vipers for my Arab. He brushes himself when he walks with his right fore so he wears out pastern straps on the left one and cables on the right. Even with replacing parts it’s still cheaper than having him shod. Not only that but in shoes he would grab his shoe’s heels no matter how much the farrier tried to hide them or quicken breakover. He went down a couple times after stepping on his shoe (stupidly athletic creature never bent a shoe and just folded himself up to prevent pulling it apparently). No problems with stepping on himself with his boots. I haven’t noticed a flopping sound, but as mentiomed above he does just barely brush the boots together in the walk (not so in the trot or canter for whatever reason).

I will note that his left foot is freakishly wide and it gets to be a pain to put on at the end of a rotation if I have been slack in using the rasp between, but otherwise I like them and their order fulfillment is great.

They offer multiple sizes for both the pastern strap and cables and they are pretty cheap to replace.

#11

Yup, the “shoe grabbing” would be an issue with my new Morab as her stride is long, and she’s young enough not to have learned how to get her fronts out of the way of the hinds. I know the owner of her brother had a heck of a time trying to keep front shoes on him, and on my own girl I’ve heard those back boots (when I use Gloves in the rear) hitting the front Gloves time and time again when she’s really moving out. That doesn’t seem to happen with the Renegades, and I suspect they are altering her back foot gait to raise it a touch higher and rounder so that it leaves time for the fronts to move out of the way before the backs complete their arc and hit the ground. This is the one redeeming point of the Renegades- helping create a rounder arc stride- and is what keeps my EPM-compromised riding pony from chronic stumbling. He moves clear as a bell behind while being ridden … as long as he has those Renegades on. I have to shoe him in front - no way around it, and he’s in aluminums. But…he’s easy to do and now that he’s my only one that I can’t get away from not shoeing, I’m fine with that.

The cost of shoeing (for me) is just a few dollars for the aluminum St.Croix eventers, Durashock pads, and the nails. About $6 per foot if I use a new Durashock pad, $3 if I reuse a pad (which has about a 6-8 reset life expectancy.) So it is WAY cheaper in the long run for me to just put shoes on…but my body is already approaching 64, and not inclined to be willing to extend more years into the 40 that I’ve been shoeing. And the rare times I’ve let other farriers put shoes on any of my ponies/horses, I’ve ultimately not been happy with the job (one time I actually removed the shoes 2 days later as they made a horrific hash of what had been a small problem that this one farrier was so convinced he could fix (he didn’t - I ended up fixing the problem myself with different shoes), or paid so much ($150 for just putting on front NB shoes that I’d purchased myself ???) that I’d decided it was stupid to continue that route. I’m much happier doing the shoeing myself.

But I can’t see myself shoeing my next Decade Team horse for 10 years. I’ll be 74 by the time we achieve that title! Nope, a return to shoeing’s not gonna happen! Nor will I glue anything on. That is more time consuming than slapping a pair of shoes on, and worse getting them off.

So, I’m vested now in trying to make the pull on Gloves boots be the preferred alternative. My mare travels wide, even at the walk, so no issues with brushing, thankfully.

CECT - (just rambling here as I’m sure you know the following already) the trotting and cantering gait tends to (on the average) create a wider distance between the moving legs, and the horse is less inclined to strike another leg. This allows them to have a wider base of support in order to more effectively use the hooves as weapons (separate or together) against a predator while in flight. The walk, on the other hand, being a calm gait, is very narrow with the arc of the stride swinging inward. I suspect it was an evolutionary trait designed to allow the ancestors of the horse to comfortably thread a thin path through woods, etc, - a trait that they continue to retain today. The clearance of ankle to opposing ankle, and even hoof wall to hoof wall, at a walk is just a bare fraction of an inch most times, but add an unnatural impediment like a shoe or boot and you see the need for the vast, and highly profitable, market in brushing boots, as well as bell boots. And your little Arab brushing his boots together. Again, just rambling info. I’m bored, and it’s raining. Lol!

#12

Gothedistance- If I were confident and competent enough to do my own trimming and shoeing the cost-benefit would be a different formula for sure!

The goober never bent a shoe in his shoe grabbing, he just felt the resistance and folded himself down around the pressure. The final straw was when he completely folded himself in half and managed to step on his ear with his back foot as he recovered while a student was on board. Nope, don’t need that!

He does occasionally hit the boots while trotting if his rider isn’t helping him move well. He also doesn’t do it so much while I’m riding him so it’s a combination of his natural tendency to wing that right fore in slightly and not being asked to step up and carry himself.

#13

As an aside, I just got a pair of Vipers, and have to say that I find them harder to get on than are the originals, and I don’t think they’re significantly less bulky. I will go back to the originals for the other two feet. I’ve never had any issues with stuff collecting in them, but I’m in New England where there isn’t constant sand, though we do have some patches on any given trail.

#14

And that’s part of my problem - knowing I can buy my shoes locally, AND inexpensive at farrier price, plus fit and nail on a shoe very fast, and it lasts for 6-8 weeks depending upon how much gravel road use I subject the shoes to in the interim. Just the other day I pulled the old pair of front shoes off the fat riding pony, trimmed him up, and fitted new aluminum shoes on him. I timed myself. Took me 40 minutes for both front feet, start to finish. I could have reset the old pair of aluminums back on, but it is always better to replace old with new. He won’t need to be redone until 7 to 8 weeks later. (He does wear boots in the back to compensate for his EPM damage.)

So I grit my teeth when dealing with expensive boots, trying to get them as reliable as a pair of nailed on shoes. As long as I don’t get mad or frustrated enough to pull out the hammer and nails, I’m determined to find the right formula for boots that work as good as shoes.

I’ll be doing the OD LD this coming weekend. Will be interesting to see how the Gloves perform with my new mare - brand new Gloves with power straps, and using the athletic wrap for the hoof. Not going to try for a land speed record- just a relaxed ride like a casual trail ride to complete to see how she does as this will be her first competition, riding and camping.

My son has the Renegade pair with the broken cables - the replacement cables and supplies came last week, and he’s planning on fixing them today.:slight_smile:

#15

Here’s one with discount. http://www.thedistancedepot.com/Renegade_Hoof_Boot_Pastern_Strap_p/rhb-paststrap.htm
http://www.SANJOSETOWTRUCK.COM

#16

Good luck at OD!

The cables can be a little finicky to change in my experience, but I love the fact that I CAN change them and pretty much every part of the boot can be replaced without buying a whole new pair.

#17

The Gloves were, in two words, a “catastrophic failure”.

The OD Trail is deadly rocky and nasty viscous on boots, and it chewed up and spit out all four of my boots with a tenacity that stunned me…starting at 1.4 miles from basecamp. In retrospect, I should have simply turned around and called it quits right then and there. At mile 8 out of 14 I finally just took off the back boots because they had fatigued so badly they just kept twisting and coming off. I ended up throwing them away once I got home because both gaiters were torn - the stitching was being ripped out. I had to replace one front boot with the new spare I carried, and that, along with the LF (that was the ONLY boot to stay on properly for the first leg), helped me get to the vet check. I’d already declared my intention to RO, but my mare had gotten stung by a rock on her unprotected LH, and so we were spun as lame instead. Happily she looked fantastic otherwise and her metabolics were fabulous.

It was interesting to talk to other LD riders there about their boot experiences. One and all said they tried it and the results were so absymal they went right back to nailed shoes. I saw two LD using Renegades- one managed to keep hers on, the other was in the same boat as me - having to stop and fix/replace every 100 feet. She said she lost one on a tree. “$100 gone. Poof! Just like that!” she said. One rider did say boots worked great in NY, but NOT in VA. Another rider - a visitor from San Diego- told me she’d tried boots, and ended up spending more time swearing at them than not. She also went back to a shod hoof.

So this coming week I’ll be heading down to the farrier supply place to pick up some St. Croix eventers for my mare. And then the drug storr for a case of Advil for my back.:no: My remaining supply can be used for training, or for the driving ponies. My son fixed the broken cable on my Renegades, so those will be used for Mr. Fat Pony.

#18

Gothedistance- Sorry to hear it went so poorly!

That’s interesting as I have a friend who does LDs here in Arizona who uses the Renegades and we are high percentage rock. It can be pretty nasty and I’ve only heard good things about the performance of her boots. I imagine the harder plastic on the Renegades holds up better than the softer more rubber like boots. You find what works for you and the trail you’re traveling!

#19

The two people with Renegades were obviously in better-suited boots than mine. The OD rocks are imbedded in the dirt trail and are usually upended so that they point upwards rather wickedly quite high above ground and are so numerous and narrowly placed that you slide off them onto another. Like those punjis sticks in Vietnam.

What got the Gloves in the end was the constant twisting of the softer plastic as the hooves slid around those rocks. Renegades, being hard plastic, have much less give - thus much better on that trail. At least the gaiters on the Gloves kept them from being lost. Gotta have a positive in there somewhere! :smiley: And while the trail sucked and the boots failed, I still had a fun time overall. And my sweet new mare did great, bless her heart.

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