Question about riders going different directions. Am I in the wrong?

[alternate_universe]

[QUOTE=PonyPenny;8958662]
It is always left shoulder to left shoulder just like driving if you are hacking.[/QUOTE]

This opens a question for me. What if it’s a mix of people who are just hacking (riding laps/big circles) and people who are actually trying to school there horses? When I ride I am usually not just trying to burn some steam. I actually want to work on stuff. And it seems that many other people are too. How do you apply those ruled when one person is doing a leg yield across the diagonal and another person is trotting a circle in each corner and another person is schooling transitions on the rail? For me, this is when it just turns into everybody pay attention and be nice and stay out of the way.

[RugBug]

the problem with the rules is that they are not universal. Not everyone learns or follows the same rules when riding with others. For instance:

[QUOTE=Abbie.S;8958340]
There are three standard rules I have seen at quite literally, without exception, every barn I’ve ever ridden at.

1. Pass left shoulder to left shoulder.

2. Lessons have the right of way.

3. The horse moving at the faster gait uses the outside track. Slower horses move to the inside. .[/QUOTE]

I was taught 1 and 2 (although lesson right of way still follows left to left when coming head on, but if they are choosing a place to circle…it’s all theirs.)

BUT

I think number 3 is absolutely, completely wrong and dangerous to boot. Faster horses should stay to the inside…which also means walking horses stay on the rail (although I will ask people where they want me, rail or inside, when I’m warming up/cooling down).

Faster horses are more maneuverable so should have the most space to maneuver within (off the rail).

In smaller arenas, you could be talking about only a horse’s width or slightly more to try to fit your cantering horse through. Most horses don’t appreciate having a horse squeeze by them like that.

So, I’ve always been taught concentric circles of slower to faster: Walk, trot, canter, jumping in order from outside to inside. Jumping may cross the other paths if necessary…and has right of way in a lesson.

Truthfully, I just go with the “ride defensively” rule of the arena. I never trust someone to follow a rule, I always look for the places where I should be/can go and if I’m in the arena with people that seem to have no clue, I just leave and go find someone where else to ride.

[PonyPenny]

[QUOTE=alternate_universe;8958701]
This opens a question for me. What if it’s a mix of people who are just hacking (riding laps/big circles) and people who are actually trying to school there horses? When I ride I am usually not just trying to burn some steam. I actually want to work on stuff. And it seems that many other people are too. How do you apply those ruled when one person is doing a leg yield across the diagonal and another person is trotting a circle in each corner and another person is schooling transitions on the rail? For me, this is when it just turns into everybody pay attention and be nice and stay out of the way.[/QUOTE]

When you met someone on the rail pass left shoulder. Think like you drive.

[rosegold]

I’ve always been taught just about as everyone else on this thread – left to left, lessons take the right-of-way, and always call when passing from outside the other rider’s field of vision – but I almost always call it anyways. In fact, the only time I don’t call it is when the other rider meets my eyes and either we’re already on separate tracks or they start moving to stay out of my way. OP, I agree with some others in that I think you’re taking this too seriously for what it is. Keep a lookout, and when the other rider gets close enough that you start thinking about how to pass, just call your track. It’s really not that big a deal, even if you do have some squiggly moments.

[SuzieQNutter]

[QUOTE=PonyPenny;8958662]
It is always left shoulder to left shoulder just like driving if you are hacking.[/QUOTE]

Nope over here we drive on the left hand side of the road or are you talking about driving a horse?

[Hunter_Mom]

It can also depend on who you are riding with. We frequently end up riding with our trainers’ little kids due to our own schedule. We know we may have to steer around little Susie who is really not able to steer her lesson pony efficiently enough to abide by these rules, but we’re also skilled enough riders to make those changes when needed.
That said, when it’s time for someone to jump and their horse is being salty, she will often have anyone who is not skilled enough just park for a moment out of the way so we can focus. I also often hack during lessons and will ALWAYS do my best to learn the course they’re doing and adjust where I am to accomodate them.

FWIW we were taught

• Left to left if at same speed
• Faster horse gets inside
• Lateral work, lessons or jumping horse gets rail

[RoughOut]

I say take it easy and lighten up! It’s your arena too!

But I know the feeling. I moved from H/J barn where it was left to left mostly everyone went the same direction. To a QH barn.

There would be trail obstacles set up, horses tied in the middle and in the corners. I’m riding a reiner I was leasing, there was a hunter horse schooling a gymnastic, and then mister hotshot BNT is loping one of his world beaters. I was so paranoid about getting in his way. After all it is HIS arena. After a few incidents like you describe of not know if I should be inside or outside. He picked up a lunge whip and while coming at me held it out and jousted me!

He laughed and after getting over my shock I cracked up. It did make me realize that I was getting nervous when in reality getting in the way of someone really isn’t a big deal. And heck it makes your horse more broke!

[MissingASock]

I follow the same rules as some have posted above, left to left, and with the faster gait having the outside. Maybe that last one has people doing oppisites depending on where you’re from, kind of like how North Americans drive on the right side of the road, and peple in the UK drive on the left?
When in doubt- yell it out, that’s my rule. I would rather call something out and have the on coming person hear me, than potentionally cause an accident. I had one situation where I was riding outside (in a lesson) on a very windy day so it was pretty hard to hear others and as I was coming off a diagonal jump and plan was to head left, I yelled inside to the person who was travelling on her right lead so that she wouldn’t have to change what she was doing (very large outdoor) and she misheard me and her horse ended up hitting my horse with her chest into my girls hind end. Everyone was fine but this is where communication is of utmost importance.

This other rider sounds like a rider we probably all have at our barns, I will do whatever I can do just stay on the other side of the arena when in the outdoor from her, and when we move indoors for the winter (we have a very small indoor) I call out everything even if it’s supposed to be common knowledge. Take charge and make the decision yourself of where you’re going so you can stay safe while still keeping the peace.

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=RugBug;8958706]
I think number 3 is absolutely, completely wrong and dangerous to boot. Faster horses should stay to the inside…which also means walking horses stay on the rail (although I will ask people where they want me, rail or inside, when I’m warming up/cooling down).

Faster horses are more maneuverable so should have the most space to maneuver within (off the rail).

In smaller arenas, you could be talking about only a horse’s width or slightly more to try to fit your cantering horse through. Most horses don’t appreciate having a horse squeeze by them like that.[/QUOTE]

The Faster Gait rule is a complex one.

At shows, in big size warm up rings, people who are walking (or at slower paces cooling down or warming up slowly) are asked to stay on the outside track.
Jumps or figures/lateral moves, all the “action” is done in the middle of the ring.

In smaller outdoor rings, people can also cool down/walk, on the outside of the ring.

In smaller “indoor” rings (~20m width)… It’s actually less dangerous if the riders going at faster paces stay on the rail and those who want to walk or stop stay in the middle. The action is then on the rail.

And I don’t find that horses at higher speed are more maneuverable at all! Quite the opposite and the faster it goes, higher are the chances for drifting out.

The rules I’ve always abide to:

1. If you ride a young or difficult/dangerous horse, you stay out of the way. Or wait (or dismount and come back later) till there is no one until you have some sort of control over your beast.

2. Left to left while crossing at same speed.

3. Priorities to those at faster speed.

4. Priorities to lessons

5. Priorities to beginners who shall remain on the track until they learn how to better steer.

6. Priorities to younger horses who are well mannered but need the track and can’t steer as easily.

7. Priorities to idiots who don’t understand or follow rules!
   Basically, I just try to stay out of their way… and consider/treat them like beginners…(and not just in the ring afterward) It then become less frustrating for me as my expectation bar is lowered.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=alibi_18;8958985]
The Faster Gait rule is a complex one.

At shows, in big size warm up rings, people who are walking (or at slower paces cooling down or warming up slowly) are asked to stay on the outside track.
Jumps or figures/lateral moves, all the “action” is done in the middle of the ring.

In smaller outdoor rings, people can also cool down/walk, on the outside of the ring.

In smaller “indoor” rings (~20m width)… It’s actually less dangerous if the riders going at faster paces stay on the rail and those who want to walk or stop stay in the middle. The action is then on the rail. [/QUOTE]

The “indoor” at our place (it’s just covered…it’s CA afterall) is basically a small dressage court…with a little added length. This is where I ask the other riders where they prefer I be when I’m walking, rail or inside. Because in that small of an arena, you are in the way no matter where you are (oh, and there are also jumps set up to maneuver around).

And I don’t find that horses at higher speed are more maneuverable at all! Quite the opposite and the faster it goes, higher are the chances for drifting out.

You may not find it to be true, but it doesn’t change the fact that it is. It’s a law of physics.

Again, it illustrates that not everyone follows the same rules…or even the rules a specific rider says they follow. It’s circumstantial.

FWIW - I find the hardest people to ride with are those that are always trying to get out of other people’s way. There is a balance between holding your line (and LOOKING WHERE YOU ARE GOING!!!) and moving off it. The ones that are constantly changing where they are going to get out of the way make it harder on everyone.

(I just rode in our indoor with 5 horses, three of whom were piloted by riders I try to avoid because they either 1)never look where they are going (trust me, your horses neck is not going anywhere, so quite staring at it), 2)change course suddenly, have no distinguishable plan and always try to move out of the way 3)seem completely clueless where anyone else is or how they are affecting the other riders. It was my perfect storm)

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=alternate_universe;8958349]
I thought faster horses stayed on the inside because they have more maneuverability to navigate in a smaller space? Maybe I’m just remembering it backwards.

I normally would atleast apologize and such, but you really can’t when the other rider literally does not stop. lol

I get frazzled with this particular other person because she is basically the most influential, shall we say, client to the head trainer/BO. I would not want her telling other riders/trainers that I am careless or dangerous to school around… though I think most people know I am not.[/QUOTE]

Is the real problem that this rider is using her relationship with the head trainer and her status as “top AA client” to in effect physically bully other riders in the arena? Is she taking out her frustrations about crowded ring on other riders? Is she trying to make riding with her so unpleasant that the “low level riders” (ie you) are scared to ride with her, and she therefore gets the arena to herself? Is this behavior consistent with her general attitude around the barn? If so, you have a larger problem on your hands than just ring etiquette.

However, the only way to deal with it is through a discussion about ring etiquette. Approach the BM or whoever decides these things. Don’t mention Dangerous Diva. Say that you’ve had several near-crashes, and you think it would be very helpful for everyone to formalize the ring rules, and post them as a sign in the arena (this is very common practice). They can include pass left to left, shout out change of directions, be courteous, etc. You could bring in a list copied from on-line, and say that you aren’t that concerned about the details, only that everyone is on the same page. If the BM supports the rules, then everyone has to follow them.

The other suggestion is to not give in to what I suspect is deliberate physical harrassment by Dangerous Diva. Rather than accommodate her abrupt demands, don’t. Or stop your horse and look confused. Or ride straight at her. If she complains, you say (calmly, not defensively) that she was being dangerous and need to call out her pattern changes earlier. And then say to BM that the arena clearly needs clear etiquette rules posted so this will never happen again.

Also watch to see if she is doing this to other riders. Maybe even chat quietly, away from Dangerous Diva, at a moment you can be casual, to ask if they had any problems with her. If so, how did they solve them? It is quite possible that she is a Known Problem, and that if you simply stand up to her she leaves you alone.

I dealt with something similar, and found if the Dangerous Diva realizes that she might actually crash into you, she will give you a lot more room.

[VelvetsAB]

We go with “left to left”.

I believe that those at the TROT in our arena have rail priority.

Walk off the rail. Call circles and diagonals.

(I almost ran over a teenager on a pony one day, during our lesson, when my lesson horse was being a dink, because she was walking on the track when we were jumping. His winter brakes were faulty…)

I agree with the above poster who said that they ride defensively, and look for spots that you can turn out of a potential problem. Head has to be on a swivel, and you have to be overly aware. It can be tough when you are trying to watch what you are doing.

[alibi_18]

You may not find it to be true, but it doesn’t change the fact that it is. It’s a law of physics.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you are mixing up increased mobility and maneuverability. Higher speed does increase the mobility of an object. That doesn’t mean its maneuverability will be easier.
It’s actually the opposite. The faster you go, the more mobile your horse gets, the more you need to have refine cues to precisely maneuver around. The slightest error will exponentially increased potential problems as speed goes up.

That’s the reason why beginners are not put on fast horses.

The faster you go, the more skilled you need to be.

In a 20m x 40m, it’s definitively harder to canter on a 10-15m circle than to go around the ring following the rail.

[findeight]

Can’t always do left to left if a lesson rider is coming off a diagonal to another diagonal or single on the quarter line and can’t get the turn without going to or close to the rail. Which track faster horses take depends on the abilities of those riding, tiny tots and beginners tend to drift out to the rail and trap a faster horse trying to get through. My HJ barns all had pass to the inside with slower riders on the rail.

I hated winter riding in the indoor when it was crowded…we called it Bowling for Ponies. I jumped a Pony and rider who turned right angle off the rail right across the base of a 3’ fence set as part of a 3x3x3 on the quarter line on the landing side just as we took off in a lesson. Just made it an oxer. Fortunately it was a placid small Small and the kid was tiny. True story. I called it, trainer called it, kid was scared, didn’t understand the call. Shouldn’t have been in there, it was Moms idea, trainer was teaching, don’t think she noticed until I jumped them.

That was the last time I lessoned or even flatted with a mixed ability group, that was the final straw.

Anyway, nothing fits every situation and novice riders can make some mistakes, younger ones can get scared and lessons with jumping mean situational awareness and flexibility are needed. Ask the barn in trainer how they typically handle it. If they care.

[RPM]

I was trotting around the arena on the rail one day when one of the other boarders came trotting towards me. As she approached she looked right at me and started calling “Left to left! Left to left!” I did not have a clue what she meant – I knew I was on my correct diagonal. Did she mean me to go to my left? Which would have put me directly in her path? I decided to ignore her and stay on the rail, which I had been taught was the correct way to proceed.

If she had simply called out, “Keep right!” I would have known exactly what she meant, from years of driving on US roads, cycling, riding escalators, etc.

And I would have kept right anyway, if she had just kept her mouth shut.

It’s the riders who don’t know to keep a horse’s length when following each other that make it difficult to share an arena. Other than for them, I love sharing arenas with different riders working on different things.

[RugBug]

@alibi_18;8959124

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you are mixing up increased mobility and maneuverability. Higher speed does increase the mobility of an object. That doesn’t mean its maneuverability will be easier.
It’s actually the opposite. The faster you go, the more mobile your horse gets, the more you need to have refine cues to precisely maneuver around. The slightest error will exponentially increased potential problems as speed goes up.

That’s the reason why beginners are not put on fast horses.

The faster you go, the more skilled you need to be.

Nope. It’s why most trainers will tell you that if you are having a problem steering your horse, you need to go forward.

As you speed up, other forces will increase and you have to correct for those.

Speed on a horse increases the maneuverability. If the horse is disobedient, you will lose that maneuverability as it bulges or cuts in or what have you. Speed magnifies holes in training.

Beginners don’t ride fast horses because there is too much for them to think about. But we aren’t talking about beginners here (they always have right of way, in a lesson or not…because often if you dn’t get out of their way, they have no idea how or when to get out of your way.

That said, it is still unsafe to pin the faster horse on the rail between a slower moving horse. It’s a great way to cause a blow up of one or more horses. If you have to, you have to. But it should not be an arena rule.

It is pretty safe to say that you and I should never ride together. Sounds like it would be a disaster.

[WasthatC]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8958441]
Always give way to lateral work.[/QUOTE]

Um, no.

Unless you were being funny, then that was pretty good.

[keysfins]

We can have three people riding in the indoor, and it’s like a bizarre physics law. All of a sudden all three of us, doing different things including watching out for each other, arrive at the same place at the same time.

All dressage riders, riding different schooling exercises, and yet we’re all just about at the same spot at the same moment in time. Sometimes I think horses are magnetic. Or like electrons in an atom. Usually, at least two riders of the three have advanced steering, braking and awareness, so crises are averted.

[RedHorses]

I will echo the poster who said that the worst people to ride with are those who keep trying to get out of the way.

I will also echo the poster who said “when in doubt, call it out.”

Dear OP, you can choose your path, and call it out when you meet an oncoming rider. If you call it first, the other rider should yield. If it so happens that you get in this important client’s way by doing this, then SHE will learn to call her track earlier and you won’t be left guessing. Call your track even if you are going by the left to left rule, because you can see there are so many exceptions that you can’t rely on it. Use “inside” and “outside” so no one has to wonder “my left or your left?”

Please don’t let yourself become that rider who panics and changes their direction suddenly whenever they see another rider coming. That is a surefire way to get yourself the reputation of being someone everyone hates to share a ring with.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=Abbie.S;8958340]

2. Lessons have the right of way.
   .[/QUOTE]

God do I hate it when barns post this rule.

I am 100% perfectly happy to give lessons the right of way, but merely posting that it is expected does nothing to tell anyone HOW to yield to the lesson.

Great, so we’re heading towards each other.
Do I yield to the left or the right?
Inside or outside?

There needs to be an actual agreed upon protocol for it to work.

It is like when you are on a narrow path and someone comes up behind you on a bike ringing their bell and yelling “Behind you!”

THAT’S GREAT, WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO MOVE TO THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT.

But people expect others who are ahead of them on park paths or in a riding arena to be psychic, and when they fail to magically deduce which path other people intend to ride on, it’s their fault because they are supposed to “give lessons the right of way.”