Have they opened up their book to non-holsteiner stallions? Only for dressage horses? How do they decide who to open their book to? I have now seen two dressage bred Holsteiners with Donnerhall blood. What is the feeling amongst Holsteiner breeders for allowing in this blood? Does the Verband feel they need to do this to stay competitive in the dressage bred horses? Are “purest” against it?
The Holstein Verband has a list of outside stallions (both jumping and dressage) that they currently allow breeding to:
Cellestial OLD
Damon Hill WFA
De Niro HAN
Kash de Prissey SF
Krack C KWPN
Lissaro HAN
Magnus Romeo AUS
Mylord Carthago SF
Nabab de Rêve SF
Non Stop BWP
Quaterback BRB
Riscal AUS
Spartacus HAN
Tornesch KWPN
Untouchable KWPN
Uriko
Zandor Z RLD
Zhivago WPN
That is very interesting as I always thought the Holsteiners were a closed book and hence what some would call a “pure breed” like the Trakehner. Is there somewhere you can recommend to read how they decided to open their book and what the stallion selection is for these outside stallions?
Do you know what the feeling is within the Holsteiner breeders to this new open philosophy?
I actually just found this article that is very interesting reading:
http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2014/08/dr-thomas-nissen-the-holstein-future/
That’s an interesting article! Glad you posted it as I was just about to comment that I couldn’t answer any of your questions as I didn’t know myself. I remembering being surprised that the Holsteins allowed some of the dressage horses in that they did. I think of them almost exclusively as jumper breeders, with the offshoot being that that often produces good dressage horses.
Hirtentanz was also approved by the Verband (Trakehner)
Thanks for posting that article. Very interesting.
I’d add to that list
Numero Uno - KWPN
Zirocco Blue - SF
I was at the Verband a few years ago, and saw a very nice Anglo Arabian breeding stallion in the barns. I took a picture of his dishy face and pedigree so my friends back home would believe me. The Holsteiner Verband does breed to outside the “book”. I have a “Dolany” expected next year.
Bayhawk or some of the other more experienced/knowledgeable folks might add to this but I believe what you are referring to with “closed” would be the mares. Holstein does not allow outside mares but will and have, as others have listed and noted, allow outside, approved stallions.
If you go to the Holsteiner Verband webpage, one can navigate and find the list of these outside, approved stallions. It is also interesting to look at the Korung results from this year as there is a fair amount of “outside” blood in the approved stallion group.
[QUOTE=drkarins;7841521]
I believe what you are referring to with “closed” would be the mares. Holstein does not allow outside mares but will and have, as others have listed and noted, allow outside, approved stallions.
.[/QUOTE]
That is interesting that they keep the mare book closed but not the stallion book. How does that benefit as eventually all those outside stallion genetics infiltrate their mare lines. And do they not accept outside mares via JC approved Tb?
[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7841719]
That is interesting that they keep the mare book closed but not the stallion book. How does that benefit as eventually all those outside stallion genetics infiltrate their mare lines. And do they not accept outside mares via JC approved Tb?[/QUOTE]
Yes, they regularly inspect and approve JC reg TB mares that meet the required scores.
The AHHA office is extremely amenable in helping JC mare owners understand the process.
While the AHHA might, I do not think the German Holsteiner Verband allows in outside mares except under very rare instances (like Taggi who I think went to the Olympics).
[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7841719]
That is interesting that they keep the mare book closed but not the stallion book. How does that benefit as eventually all those outside stallion genetics infiltrate their mare lines. And do they not accept outside mares via JC approved Tb?[/QUOTE]
The AHHA and the Holsteiner Verband have different rules when it comes to JC TB mares (and maybe mares generally). I think the Verband has a closed book with respect to outside marelines (including TB mares) whereas the AHHA has a more inclusive policy (at least from an American perspective) on outside marelines. This has caused a tremendous amount of divisiveness within the AHHA over the years with some favoring the Verband’s “pure breeding” and some favoring inclusion of TB marelines and other outside mares.
[QUOTE=drkarins;7841521]
If you go to the Holsteiner Verband webpage, one can navigate and find the list of these outside, approved stallions. It is also interesting to look at the Korung results from this year as there is a fair amount of “outside” blood in the approved stallion group.[/QUOTE]
That’s the list I posted above. I copied it directly from the Verband’s webpage 
I see there too that they listed the winners of the recent stallion licensing, but sadly there aren’t any photos. Does anyone know where I can see pics of them?
[QUOTE=Thesporthorsecenter;7841156]
I was at the Verband a few years ago, and saw a very nice Anglo Arabian breeding stallion in the barns. I took a picture of his dishy face and pedigree so my friends back home would believe me. The Holsteiner Verband does breed to outside the “book”. I have a “Dolany” expected next year.[/QUOTE]
I think Bonaparte AA is approved by Holstein
It is correct that the rules of the AHHA and HV are very different in regards to approving outside mares. JC approved TB mares may be eligible with the AHHA but are largely not eligible with the HV with possible rare exceptions. The HV book for mares is very specific and closed. Bayhawk’s posts can be looked up on this subject, he has done a very nice job of explaining this thinking.
The HV has a Youtube page that shows the stallions at the korung.
https://www.youtube.com/user/HolsteinerVerband/videos
I didn’t fully understand the differences between the HV and AHHA until I spent some time in Holstein…
So is the benefit of keeping a closed mare book to keep track of Stamm lines? But if they accept outside German stallions why not outside mares? German mother lines are also well traced and can be followed.
I always wondered why AHHA used the Holsteiner name when there wasn’t reciprocity.
Does the Germand verband issue a COP if a mare is not ‘in the book’ but sired by an approved / Holsteiner stallion?
I will tell you my observations/understandings, based on my limited time involved with and appreciating Holsteiners (owning two, attending the korung in 2012 and hanging around Holsteiner breeders).
As many will tell you, with very few exceptions, a “true” Holsteiner must come from a Holsteiner mareline (stamm). Even though outside blood is allowed in through the sire lines and the results of this breeding will ultimately be seen in mares of future generations, it is always on top of the pedigree: the stamms remain intact. Because of this, certain characteristics associated with the stamm are maintained and breeding among/within stamms is more predictable.
While other German breeds may track the motherlines, Holstein seems to place much greater emphasis on preserving and promoting the motherlines of their mare base. When you attend auctions/licensings, they will name each horse’s stamm and the approved stallions and/or horses proven in sport that the female members of the family have produced. Often, a particular breeder will become associated with “their” stamm from which they breed primarily/exclusively. I have a gelding from stamm 730b, from the same branch and bred by the same breeder as the Caletto brothers, Klaus Martin Both. He has become associated with this branch of the stamm, as most of his progeny have come from or are descended from the great mare, Deka (dam of the Caletto I-IV).
Glad to hear that they preserve the mare base…While other breeds are a good mix, there are certain characteristics of the Holsteiner that make it stand out. The Holsteiner canter, for example, like being on an air cushion ride.
I’ve recently had concerns about the Irish allowing WB breeding in, too, but to
remain competitive with world class horses, they need to bring in world class blood. Guess the Irish horse has always been better as a mix…
