Question For Icon Flight Owners

[IdahoRider]

So, I found my dream saddle while I was marooned in California this summer. It is a three year old Custom Icon Flight. I took numerous pictures from every imaginable angle, upside down, with me in it. You name, I took a picture.

I texted those pictures to the Custom rep I have been dealing with here, and she said that as a “cold buy” (meaning not sitting it on my horse before buying it), it was a great choice. The shape of the tree would fit my horse and since it was in such good shape and it was such a great price, she recommended I get it. The Icon Flight was one of the Custom models that she had initially recommended, but they were out of my price range.

So I bought it. And brought it home. I knew that it would need to be re-flocked to provide my mare with the best fit. It fit me really well, and mare seemed to like it. I was over the moon. I contact the Custom rep and talk about dates to re-flock it.

A couple of days ago a saddle rep from another maker visited my barn. She ripped my Icon Flight. She said it can’t be re-flocked because it has a foam panel between the leather and the wool flocking and as a mono flap it can’t be re-flocked from above, so to speak.

She basically said that it had no value to me, that it did not fit my horse and her saddles were of much better quality and usefulness. She did show me a space where the gullet kind of meets a dip in my mare’s back, creating a “hole” of contact. She pointed out that if my saddle could be re-flocked, this hole could be filled and all would be good. But since my saddle can’t be re-flocked, I am SOL. I asked about shimming that spot to support the fit, and she said that shimming was not the go to answer…even though she had talked about shimming and it’s usefulness earlier.

So. Icon Flight owners of hybrid, mono flap saddles…can they be re-flocked? My Custom rep is saying yes. The other saddle maker/fitter said no. Which is the truth? I love this saddle.
Sheilah

[soloudinhere]

Yes, of course they can. The hybrid paneling (and only if it’s a Flight 2 does it even have it) is separately enclosed and the wool panel behaves like any other. I have an Icon Echo (same saddle, flat tree for the wide loads) and it’s been touched up several times. The monoflap can be worked on like any other saddle, the panels are the same regardless of if there is a sweat flap involved. It’s been worked on by a non-Custom fitter as well since the Custom fitter did a piss poor job of it.

Frankly I call BS on this other fitter and I’m disappointed for you that she is using the sales tactic of disparaging another brand.

[SnicklefritzG]

I owned an Icon Flight but sold it a few years ago when I found something that better accommodated my horse’s shoulder.

It is a comfortable saddle and I never had a problem having it reflocked. I had the Custom rep do it since they were in the area frequently.

I would be suspicious of anyone who says “Item X is terrible, it is of no use to you, but by the way, I sell item Y which is a much better match” I think that fitter is trying to take advantage of what she thinks is your lack of knowledge.

[joiedevie99]

Sure! My saddles are reflocked every 4 months, and no one ever complained about working on my Icon Coda. I can’t imagine the Flight is different. She did have to cut an extra slit in one place to get to one particular spot where we often had flocking adjustments needed - but it never mattered.

[no.stirrups]

I don’t have detailed knowledge of Custom saddles in particular, but I can tell you that many brands have a layer of foam or rubber between the horse and the wool and it doesn’t make any difference to how it is reflocked. And it isn’t at all unusual, especially with monoflaps, to have to drop panels in order to reflock. Obviously it is a little more complicated than reflocking a saddle that doesn’t require dropping the panels, and therefore reflocking may cost a little more depending on your fitter, but it’s totally do-able. Breathe.

[reefy]

I have had my Icon Flight re-flocked/adjusted twice (and I’m sure it’s at least 5 years old now - can’t really remember when I bought it). I need it done again slightly for my ‘new’ (had her a year) horse but we make do with yes, shims, for now.

I agree that this fitter is trying to push you in to her saddle/s. Just wait for the Custom rep - I’m quite sure they can do what you need!

[IdahoRider]

Thanks for talking me down off the ledge.
Sheilah

[netg]

I’ve never even heard of someone so blatantly lying to a customer. I hope you don’t give that person business again… creep!

And I’m glad you got the saddle and it looks like it will work for you after adjusted!

[mvp]

I believe Custom does make a hybrid version. You’ll see a rather flat-looking part of the panel on the side near the horse. Not all Icon Flights are made with this. I think the idea is to help stabilize the wool and to keep it from molding to one horse’s back. The feature is meant to help pros put their one saddle on lots of horses.

OP, does your saddle have this feature? Even so, given its location, I don’t know why you couldn’t put blocking in from the usual hole built into the monoflap for wool.

I’ll bet a custom fitter that’s even half-way local to you can tell you over the phone what to do and where to send it.

[IdahoRider]

@mvp

OP, does your saddle have this feature? Even so, given its location, I don’t know why you couldn’t put blocking in from the usual hole built into the monoflap for wool.

I’ll bet a custom fitter that’s even half-way local to you can tell you over the phone what to do and where to send it.

Yes, my saddle has this feature. And the Custom rep I have been dealing with said she can reflock the saddle. It is all the non-Custom owners and fitters who are saying that it is a complete dud.
Sheilah

[2tempe]

Ditto flocking and adjusting my Icon Flight which is maybe 5 years old. Get a Custom rep to come do it - you have nothing to lose except the cost of the work. I stopped using the Flight when I got my short backed Lusitano; but they make a very nice short panel Wolfgang which we are happily riding around in.
A bunch of years ago we had a “big name” saddle maker come and do a presentation to our GMO. Boarder who had just recently purchased a new County for her mare, volunteered to be the demo horse. Big Name plopped the County on the mare’s back and proceeded to rip apart the saddle and how it fit the mare. (really, you do this to a volunteer???) Just a few months ago Big Name came to barn and fitted a demo to friend’s horse and pushed hard for an official order. After 4 days of trial, neither the horse nor the rider were happy with the saddle. Did not buy.

[Steepleview]

I have an Icon Flight and it has been flocked and adjusted a couple of times to fit my developing mare. I love my custom saddles (I also have an Icon Star for a different horse) and have enjoyed working with all of their fitters. Very knowledgeable and personable. They have never disparaged another brand to me. I think that is a horrible sales tactic - if you can’t sell me your product on its own merits, I definitely don’t want it if you feel like you have to bash another brand!

[keysfins]

Call Custom Saddlery with the serial number of your saddle. There should also be numbers stamped for date, seat size and thigh roll configuration. They can tell you everything about the saddle you have.

Any saddle fitter who “disses” another manufacturer’s saddle and tells you their brand is “better” is out to SELL saddles, not find the best fit for you and your horse. IMO.

[IdahoRider]

@keysfins

Call Custom Saddlery with the serial number of your saddle. There should also be numbers stamped for date, seat size and thigh roll configuration.

I have sent all info to Custom and got the information back. It is a mono flap with a hybrid panel.
Sheilah

[keysfins]

@IdahoRider

I have sent all info to Custom and got the information back. It is a mono flap with a hybrid panel.
Sheilah

Somehow my post went “poof”. ???

[IdahoRider]

@keysfins

Somehow my post went “poof”. ???

It was there a minute ago! I swear!
Sheilah

[Junebug125]

LOL, how bizarre. I’ve watched my Custom fitter flock/adjust a few saddles with monoflaps and hybrid panels this year when I was trying different models (and brands, which she totally supported like a professional). No different than the non-hybrid panels. Ultimately bought a 3 year old Flight with non-hybrid panels. Hope you can get it reflocked by your rep soon- enjoy your saddle!

[Can_tFindMyWhip]

The only correct way to flock a monoflap is to take the panels off, reflock them laying flat on a table and then sew them back on. Typically flocking ports go under the webbing for the billet on a double flap saddle, but with most monoflaps there is no real safe place to make a port. If the fitter goes in through the channel there is an enormous risk that they could pop the sitch line that goes along the top of the panel. What Custom reps do is use a port under the stirrup bar that is covered by a really unwieldy and awkward piece of leather. They will also go in through the point billet hole somehow (I’ve never figured out how they do it) and flock the front of the saddle that way, but I see loads of Custom Saddles with wool poking out around the point billet, so clearly that method isn’t effective and I don’t understand how people are satisfied with that “quality” work. I know I’d have a cow if it was my saddle and I paid someone to for that job. Needless to say, neither of those methods are correct by many old school saddlery teachers’ standards, so even if this fitter is mistaken about where Custom puts the foam in their hybrid panels, I suspect that she probably has had some good, older teachers that held her to a higher standard in her training. Obviously dropping panels and reattaching them onsight is a nightmare and I don’t blame that fitter for not wanting to do it. I HATE working on Customs.

Custom is also a huge proponent of saddle presses and altering tree widths. It’s another reason why fitters with more traditional education often like to steer clear of them. So your Custom Rep might like the saddle for your horse because she is probably comfortable putting it in a tree machine. The reality is, the steel in the headplate will only bend so much and a tree can only be adjusted so many times before it starts to weaken, increasing the risk of the headplate breaking. Nobody wants to be liable for that, so most independent fitters don’t do it. Fitters who were not trained by Custom or a couple of other brands that advocate for that, are much more comfortable saying, “this saddle isn’t appropriate, I think you should find something else” instead.

Idahorider, I remember your first post when you were looking for the saddle. I am a big believer that all saddles should be evaluated on a moving horse before any assessment is made, but I had my doubts about a Flight being a good choice for your horse. I kept my mouth shut because I knew you were working with a Custom rep and [typically] if I give real, frank advice about saddle fit on social media or other forums people seem to get sore and block me. So I stopped doing that, but I feel bad for not saying anything in this case.

[IdahoRider]

@Can'tFindMyWhip

I kept my mouth shut because I knew you were working with a Custom rep and [typically] if I give real, frank advice about saddle fit on social media or other forums people seem to get sore and block me. So I stopped doing that, but I feel bad for not saying anything in this case.

Don’t feel bad. I liked the Flight so much, I would have bought it anyway. I will shim my half pad to fill in that “hole” and take a step back and then decide what I’ll do. I am moving my mare at the end of the month. The barn I currently have her at has decided to focus on the higher end client, so they have decided to stop offering paddock or pasture board. I can’t afford to double the cost of board there by moving her into a stall. She is moving to the same barn as my semi-retired gelding. Good-bye covered arena and hot and cold wash rack.
Sheilah

[reefy]

@IdahoRider

I am moving my mare at the end of the month. The barn I currently have her at has decided to focus on the higher end client, so they have decided to stop offering paddock or pasture board. I can’t afford to double the cost of board there by moving her into a stall. She is moving to the same barn as my semi-retired gelding. Good-bye covered arena and hot and cold wash rack.
Sheilah

What a bummer! I remember when you were going to board there and you were so excited. Guess they must have enough high end clients to fill their coffers.