Question for judges re: automatic releases

[lauriep]

and granted, I jumped from p.4 to p.9, but has anyone addressed the intermediate release? The following hand that takes a tiny bit of support from the sides of the horse’s neck? This is the release that was meant to follow the crest release and be the prelude to the true following hand, that takes no support from the horse’s neck. The intermediate release is quite lovely to see and would be plenty of release for 80% of riders, and certainly sufficient for most hunter riders, even the 4 footers. (Bumpkins release would be intermediate, as she takes some support from the neck).

I truly believe that the program George laid out so many years ago was a logical one that unfortunately has been bastardized by the “quickie” trainers out there. Too bad. What are the clinic attendance requirements for today’s judges? This is where the reward for the two advanced releases should be emphasized, as until the judges stop “telling” the trainers that the crest release is correct and preferred, it will continue to be taught as THE release. It isn’t hard to imagine how Paige Hortman came to her conclusions, and it certainly isn’t her fault.

Makes me wonder how many “chutes” these kids are made to ride down with no stirrups and no reins, just their own balance…

EqChick, Joe isn’t “religious” about the following hand; he VERY frequently rests one hand on the crest and follows with the other, a quirk of his. So it isn’t classic, but he gets the job done…

Laurie

[This message was edited by lauriep on Dec. 06, 2001 at 04:16 PM.]

[just_me]

I learned to ride and jump in the early '70s. I was taught an automatic release from the start. We didn’t call it that because that was all there was. It was just a release.

Anyway, I’m attaching a photo of the great rider Bill Steinkraus riding Bold Minstrel in 1967. His style was what I aspired to, but never made. The picture is from his book “Riding and Jumping,” and all photos in that book have the riders with beautiful automatic releases going over big fences.

[smashing_fishnets_an]

my own little ‘theory’ on what kind of release to use: Why dont you ask your HORSE what kind of release he’d like!?!? lan’ sakes, some like to have contact o/f, some go better with complete control. Personally until we get up to the bigger stuff(only 3’+, but for us its big right now) when we jump, if its below 2’6" or 2’9", i go with a loopy crest release, because it is literally impossible to do an auto- cruz does not use himself well over small fences, and therefore does not become round at all until its 3’+. When we start consistently doing 3’, i will revert back to the auto. I was jumping one of the horses in training, who had a ‘run away-after-the-jump’ problem, but only if you really picked up on your reins right after the jump. We werent doing anything big, 2’3" max(BTW he was a VERY made, winning horse on the A circuit who developed a problem). Well, i discovered with him that when contact was kept o/f, he had no problem(until he started having back problems, and then his brain froze up like an ice cube).
BL: My theory on what type of release you should use?? like i said…Lan’ Sakes! ASK THE HORSE! it should be what works for your horse and its style, not what the fashion is!..

[Weatherford]

as per the thread on Off Course…
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
At Equifest of KS I got to see Capt. Mark Phillips do a clinic…
not only did he tell a rider that over a particular jump they looked like a “spastic monkey”

but he had a really good quote which I felt is directed towards the hunter/jumper world in a sense…

“The crest release is a bad American disease.” <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Bumpkin]

Foxfield

[Sandy_M]

I’m coming into this discussion late, and I don’t even do hunters any more (went from H/J to Eventing back to H/J then Dressage), but back in the “Good Old Days” when I first learned to jump, crest release was for beginners and emergencies, and the goal was ALWAYS an automatic release and that “straight line from bit to elbow”. I have no problem with crest release in actual hunter classes where you are “showing off the horse,” although personally, I think an automatic release looks nicer. However, I think what strikes many people is why are riders (who are, I am sure, GOOD riders) WINNING the national equitation championships (MacClay/ASPCA Medal/USET) DOING A CREST RELEASE?? SHouldn’t the “best” hunt seat rider in the country be capable of an automatic release? This is not saying crest release is, per se, “bad,” just that the supposed “best of the best” should be capable (and probably ARE capable) of better, i.e., an automatic release. So why has a crest release become acceptable to win equitation championships? I know GM is making apologies all over the place for having promoted this, but how sad that so many judges would simply follow the fashion and allow what has long been consider “correct” (automatic release) become less important and “fashion” (crest release) the ideal.

[Bumpkin]

In reply to a new thread about Auto Releases…

[dublin]

I’m bringing this back to the top in the hopes that some of the judges who post here will respond. Twister, where are you??? (Probably out judging a show… LOL)

[PonyLuvN]

" instead of competing against each other, equitation riders would compete against a standard…to qualify for advancement or for a notch on thier belt towards a finals or somesuch, they’d have to achieve a certain score, "
There have been a couple shows where no one REALLY rode well and no one should have been pinned. But i have a question. I have seen pics where there have been short auto releases. Mainly in Grand Prixs. Is this worse than a crest?

-Stephy

[CarolineP]

Am still not sure about exactly what an American hunter class actually involves.

Over here we have straight jumping classes over a course just on clear round and then speed.

Showing classes such as Working Hunter Pony, Hunter, Hack etc. Judged largely on type of horse, movement of horse etc.

Best Rider classes and equitation classes but these are largely for the kiddies. And still seem to come down to show pony status.

I am not aware of anything which takes the rider into account.

Even the dressage hardly does that so what hope does the rest of the classes have

I may be missing something though. Fundamentally the emphasis though is place on the horse not the rider. In Germany I think it is different.

Caroline

[Chanda]

Well, if it would be an interesting experiment for you guys I will enter a few Eq classes and do an auto-release and see what happens. I can’t guarantee beautiful smooth rounds to be judged against but it might be fun to see what happens. Maybe we can all start an auto-trend!

[findeight]

Well Caroline you can think of the American show Hunter as kind of a beauty pageant contestant. They have to be stylish, better then average movers to start with. Typical course is 8 or 9 fences set in a smallish ring and includes mostly pairs of fences-vertical in oxer out- set at related distances and requiring each and every horse to do the same number of strides down the line. Of course they must jump in a classic style with tight square knees and a round bascule. The trick is to demonstrate an even pace throughout including the corners and it is a whole lot harder than it sounds. Heights range from 3’ to 4’ with kids and amateur adults doing 3’ or 3’6" and the Pros riding the first year horses at 3’6", second years 3’9" and the regulars at 4’ to 4’3". Jumper classes here generally start where the hunters top out in the various groups. This discussion stems from the fact that most of the hunter pros use the crest release with alot of slack in the reins to show off the easy controllability. Many U.S. trainers prefer all but the most advanced riders to also use this as it does protect the horses mouth from the hands of a rider who only rides 2 or 3 times a week. Probably 80% of our show exhibitors fall into this category.

From Allergy Valley USA

[Duffy]

Hi Moose - I don’t know if this is what ponyjocke was referring to or not, but, to me, a rotating release is the kind where the rider kind of lifts the horse (ie - hands come back) at the take-off, then the hands go far forward up the neck, then kind of come down as the horse’s head and neck reach down, back to the normal position.

Did any of that make any sense? LOL

[Bumpkin]

I feel exactly the way you do.
I would love to see the judges start rewarding those who use the Automatic Release, I bet we would see a trend towards training for a more advanced level of riding.
Let us keep up the campaign!

[Dementia_13]

No flame from me - I agree with all that you have to say. I grew up riding in the 60s and 70s - we were taught to be effective, not to pose. We also rode with much shorter stirrups than are seen today.

However, I do not think that all eq riders today pose. In fact, many that I have seen in the top ranks are wonderful, soft, effective riders.

Consider this: since GM was the dominent force in equitation during the 70s and 80s, is he not therefore responsible for the demise of the auto release? Surely we don’t think that on 1/1/90 all auto releases stopped being in fashion? It was a process, but how and why it started, I am not sure.

[Flash44]

I don’t think you need to ride 5 days a week to make progress, you just need to work hard on the days you ride. Sometimes the HORSE needs 5 days a week to make progress, though! Those 3 days a week stretches of time in the winter makes for frisky horses. As long as you are following a plan, you should make progress. And remember, practice what is hard for you, not what is easy. Your trainer makes you do those hateful exercises (especially the flatwork) for a reason.

[EqChick]

To my knowledge, equitation is not only to be judged on how the rider looks, but how they control their mount. A rider can be beautiful, but if she chips to every fence or cross-canters around a corner, we all know there won’t be a ribbon in her future. (At least I should hope not!)

The automatic release, religiously used by Mr. Fargis and his students, gives him much better control so that he is not catching up with contact between fences. That is why his trips almost always seem flawless and easy. I would put my money on Mr. Fargis winning in the next Maclay final if allowed to enter. On the complex courses in Big Eq’s and Medals, never losing contact should be top priority. How could you possibly hand gallop to a vertical and halt immediately after if you used a correct crest release?

To the surprise of many of you, I think we all use a following hand more than we think. I would not consider myself as having the most solid base over fences (just took about 8 months off- and in pain since coming back!!). In a lesson last week, my trainer had me doing gymnastics over several bounces in a line. The primary goal was to strengthen my back and seat, but the horse I was on was a little green. The horse started to drift right (probably a direct result of my loose base) and I had to maintain more consistent contact and eventually open up my left rein to keep him centered.

Viola!! I was using a following hand, direct contact throughout the jump, a straight line from bit to mouth, and a soft, consistent, supportive hand— AN AUTOMATIC RELEASE!!!

I bet all of you have encoutered this situation before. Next time you have an opportunity, watch Joe Fargis (or Ramiro, who is also a wonderful example) throughout a course. He never loses contact, so the horse always knows what’s coming and where to go, he is balanced, maintains a more consistent rhythm, and there are far less surprises for both horse and rider.

My point here is…
it is easy to see why this is a benefit in the Grand Prix, but shouldn’t the same benefits be recognized in the Big Eq’s? The courses are usually comparable, and the smoothness and lack of disruption should make the trip look that much better.

I think the idea of having an automatic realease test in a medal is wonderful- it would probably only take a few before the entire Eq world is changed. We will see if this discussion holds any water at the Maclay finals coming up…

[Magick]

of whether the rider should be jumping fences of 3’ or more at all if they don’t have an independent seat?

Here in the UK I wasn’t ever specifically taught an automatic release, it was just something that you did through proper exercises on the flat and then over poles, grids and finally fences.

If we want to be fair to the horse, surely the rider that doesn’t have an independent seat and isn’t capable of getting their weight off the horses back without disrupting their own and the horses balance should go back to basics and learn how to do it correctly?

[system]

Here’s the same horse doing two very different jobs – 1999 - 4’ Jumpers - 2000 3’ Hunters. It’s kind of interesting to view the release difference in the same horse …

[Nirvana]

My take on this is that you can’t generalize a group and call them the “big eq riders.” Do some really know their stuff, work their @sses off every day and strive to become not just medal winners but horsepeople? You bet…I know many like that. Do some just hop on their imported horse, put their Vogel-covered heels down, perch in their TS breeches and Hermes saddles, then throw the reins at their groom while they rush home to hang another tri that their zillion dollar horse won? You bet…I know many of these types too! In the end, whether one is qualified to be an instructor/trainer has NOTHING to do with how many tris they have or if they won the biggest eq classes out there. It’s about their ability to TEACH. Some of the best riders I have even seen made the worst trainers…I rode with several of them. Soooo to me it’s not about whether your former big-eq trainer knows her theory or not…it’s about whether your trainer has the ability to teach you and your horse and the appropriate level of knowledge to share with you.