Question for those of you who have gone up the levels quickly

[anon55755751]

If you’ve gone up the levels relatively quickly in one shot (e.g. on your first dressage horse) - not necessarily all the way to GP but to the FEI levels, and then stuck around the sport for a few decades afterwards, bringing multiple horses up, what do you feel like you didn’t learn “correctly” the first time around? How did you determine this and go about fixing it?

What aspects of dressage do you think are “lifetime” projects for all riders? What skills are more modular (i.e. once you “get” it, you can reproduce it consistently without constant work/development)?

[alibi_18]

Modular : The understanding of halt halting and all it entails. I was already well advanced when it clicked for me - but I can now truly influence and enhance my horse’s gaits. I get horses way more through.
It changed they way I build my training programs.

Lifetime project : Transitions. Always do them right. All of them, all the time. Always.
It’s hard… :lol:

[SuzieQNutter]

Look up. So many riders look at the horses head instead.

[raff]

Self carriage.

[Aphrodite]

@alibi_18

Modular :

Lifetime project : Transitions. Always do them right. All of them, all the time. Always.
It’s hard… :lol:

Oh wow! I need to keep this in mind, as sometimes I do sloppy transitions …

[angelssix]

@alibi_18

Modular : The understanding of halt halting and all it entails. I was already well advanced when it clicked for me - but I can now truly influence and enhance my horse’s gaits. I get horses way more through.
It changed they way I build my training programs.

Lifetime project : Transitions. Always do them right. All of them, all the time. Always.
It’s hard… :lol:

YES! I still am not entirely sure about the true “half halt”, seems like every instructor says it, but never REALLY explains it. I am hoping to get my new boy off to a good start and we will be learning this TOGETHER.

[Arlomine]

TRANSITIONS

Within the gaits, between the gaits, constantly. At least one of sort of transition every five strides. Really.

And they must be CORRECT or they will not have the desired effect. No leaning back against the movement. Seamless and forward.

You will learn correct half halts this way. Your horse will change their balance.
Happiness will ensue!

[joiedevie99]

I feel like I’ve learned so much from every successive horse.

The big one though, is the importance of first level. Way back when, I considered it an achieved to complete all the movements and ride a clean PSG or I1. I was so happy that I completed the tempis and pirouettes. The gaits were what they were, and they improved to the extent that working on the movements improved them.

Now my thinking is entirely opposite. I work on the gaits, the connection, the throughness, the feeling - all the things you instill at first level. I work on it every single day, regardless of what level the horse is schooling. When everything feels like it’s working well, I throw in a movement to test whether I can keep all the basics at the same level in the movement or whether they degrade.

[theresak]

I haven’t brought a lot of horses “through the levels” but have trained my horse to GP and hopped on and helped a number of horses get through second and start third level work.

All the upper level trainers and riders harp on the “basics” and that they are always revisiting them with their upper level horses. They are so right. [LIST=1]

Transitions are where you test everything - engagement, throughness, straightness, suppleness, reactivity to the leg, etc.

Straightness is hard and no horse wants to be totally straight

Collection does not mean slowing down - the hind legs have to stay active

The horse must be in front of the leg, always, 100% of the time

You do have to put the inside leg on in the half-pass, probably even more inside leg than you think in the hard direction

There is no "change of bend" in the flying change [/LIST] Also, don't be afraid to use "upper level" exercises for lower level horses to help them. I think starting half steps can greatly help a horse who's struggling to collect the canter and maintain activity. Ask for more collection before a lengthening/medium, use more lateral work than the level calls for to help with engagement or throughness, etc. All of this will help improve the gaits, and don't be afraid to work on improving the gaits even though it seems really hard.

I do honestly think you need to either ride a schoolmaster through the levels or take at least one horse through the levels with training before you internalize all of these issues. Trainers, judges, and clinicians can reinforce the basics, but when you’re just trying to survive execution of the movements for the level, it’s hard to work on the underlying foundations of the work. Once you find a level “easy,” then you realize how much of the work is built on the basics and the better they are, the easier the work is. But by then, you’ve moved on to the next level and are back to “survival.”

[dotneko]

My first dressage horse (I had a low level eventing background) was 5 when I purchased him. We progressed about a level a year learning together. I showed him though Intermediare I pretty successfully while still being an adult amateur. The biggest thing he taught me was the importance of patience. Waiting until he understood the question before pushing for more, bigger, whatever. I retired him from the show ring in 1995. He didn’t owe me a nickel and he always cheerfully did what I asked him to do. Passage and the one tempis just weren’t in his wheelhouse. The fact that I was a complete greeny at them didn’t help. He gave me the confidence for my second horse. His heart and honesty were amazing. His show ring successes were not due to the quality of his gaits - he was a 7 on a good day, but mostly a 6. We had to maximize whatever he had to score well.

The next horse was about 3rd level when I bought him as a 9 yo. Had changes because I didn’t want to go all the way back to the beginning. Extraordinary talent. He taught me the importance of straightness. He had a big attitude to go with his big talent and what a challenge to ride and train. He was an 8 mover. He could get away with mistakes and still be mid 60s without even trying. Keep him straight and through and he could get 70s. Pirouettes up to a 9. On days he was on, he was an absolute blast to show. On a scary day, he could be just horrible. He never wanted to lose me though, because that would mean he would be out there by himself. I was able to train him through GP with ups and downs. Again about a level a year. I took him out PSG his first year.

Those two were my only real competition horses. I have helped train a few through FEI. I learned with my horses both times. I wish I had the ability to feel some movements before training them. The fancy one would surely have killed me if I didn’t have a base from the first one.
Perfect is the enemy of the good. Patience. Straightness and throughness…
Extensions must always have the possibility of collection and collection must always have the possibility of extension.

[DQ_Foxhunter]

I am not sure I moved up the levels quickly, seemed like forever!
You really never stop learning and relearning, the old saying that it takes two lifetimes to learn dressage certainly rings true for me.
Half halts and connection, are constantly evolving!

[NotGrandPrixYet]

I WISH I could have gone up the levels quickly. It took me years and 5 different horses, all of them being unsuitable for higher level until the fourth one, because I could only afford castaways at first. The fourth one was a retired GP level gelding who taught me much, and after he passed on I bought a nice younger, talented, athletic mare and we learned together, because she was a lot more sensitive and much more forward, but less balanced at times when I first got her.

But everything as stated above by other posters. Timing and half halts came naturally for me. But learning proper straightness and then controlling the bend was the most difficult thing for me, and I revisit the basics for every single ride.

[MissAriel]

@angelssix

YES! I still am not entirely sure about the true “half halt”, seems like every instructor says it, but never REALLY explains it. I am hoping to get my new boy off to a good start and we will be learning this TOGETHER.

Well, once I was at a clinic with a VBNT who said that teaching half halts is difficult because there are different half halts that you use at different times and with different horses! At that point I figured I would be lucky to figure them out during my lifetime.

[PonyApocalypse19]

I took my first horse up to I-1. He was an ex-hunter so came with changes. He was older when we got to our current trainer and time ran out for us. He was naturally gifted for passage, but piaffe not so much. Now with the next three - one schooling PSG, one schooling 4th due to surgery, and one schooling first, I can see where I missed things on my first horse. Mostly around quality of the gaits and at what point should/can you ask for more engagement, suspension, collection, etc. I did just go around and do the movements to his gaits. Now I ride the gait and show the movement in that gait. I realized too that there’s a “good enough” canter and a “better” canter. The good enough canter will get the job done for the tempi’s or whatever, but you’re going to have to work at it. The better canter makes the tempi’s an afterthought. And then knowing when to ask for more and when your “better” canter/trot becomes your “good enough” canter/trot. I never experienced that the first time around and didn’t know any better!
I’ll tell you this though, since I’ve had two ex-hunters and one basically born with changes installed, I have never had to teach flying changes! It’s looking to be my next adventure with the pony once he’s ready! I’m sure I’ll learn something.

[lorilu]

@PonyApocalypse19

I did just go around and do the movements to his gaits. Now I ride the gait and show the movement in that gait. .

I love this. thank you.

[anon55755751]

Great answers everyone! Lots of food for thought!

I think every question I’ve asked here has had “transitions” as an answer :lol: It’s on the top of my priorities list now…

[alibi_18]

@MissAriel

Well, once I was at a clinic with a VBNT who said that teaching half halts is difficult because there are different half halts that you use at different times and with different horses! At that point I figured I would be lucky to figure them out during my lifetime.

It is so much about feel, timing and patience.

At first, I thought I had to do multiple half halt, especially if the first one was not working. And that is was mostly about shaking, sponging, playing with the reins.

I was quite dumbfounded when my, at the time, new trainer told me to just wait, be patient and keep asking with my legs (inside mostly) and core for the 1rst half halt to work instead of asking plenty useless ones.

The half halt is a time for the horse to regroup and think. You don’t want to disrupt the contact (shaking/sponging/playing) you want more throughness, more activity from behind, more sit, more straightess, etc. So yes, there are plenty of it.

And OP, I will add to this discussion with : using corners! Oh the joy of truly using your corners to set up a movement…

[Dutchmare433]

The things that I learned that I can apply to most any horse–a half halt that engages the hind end and lifts the shoulder, the ability to ride the hind legs under and add some expression in the front.

Things to always work on: my seat–it can always be stronger and more independent, the basics with every horse–straightness, keeping them honest and responsive to my aids.

[merrygoround]

As alibi says, transitions, half halts have little to do with the rein It is your body that must work with his body.

Feel your body as he walks, feel it move with him. Now stop your body from moving with him, simultaneously closing your inner thigh muscles to help stabilize you. and closing your lower leg muscles against his side to keep his hind end moving up inder him. Most horses start out life listening to this, but so many have become desensitized, and no longer listen.

It is hard to do effectively at the walk but a sensitive horse will at lest slow.

You ability to do this at the trot will depend on your ability to work within the sitting trot. Many riders are happy to simply survive the sitting trot But it works the same at the trot. Your ability to control with your seat ( the amount of closing of the inner thigh, and the depth or lightens of the thrust of your seat) will control the activity of the horse’s hind end, in conjunction with your lower leg.

The half halt consists of the the fraction of the moment stoppage of your body with the simultaneously continuing forward drive of your lower leg. Should you wait til you can feel it you will end up with a halt or a downward transition.If nothing happens, rethink what and how you are attempting it.

All of this takes a tremendous amount of the human mind to micromanage all of those muscles to work simultaneously. With time and practice it is another one of those things you don’t think about, you just do.

It does help f you have someone to longe you on an educated horse. Preferably someone with patience and a good sense of humor. Because someone on the ground can talk, and explain til long after the cows came home, but is the rider who must “get” the coordination.

[2tempe]

@merrygoround - Excellent description! There are some really good posts here. I’m currently in the transition (no pun intended) from the “good enough” to “better” gaits that PonyApocalypse was discussing. Every day that its a good day I feel it all thru my core when finished.