Question Re: Hock Wringing, Shoeing, and Footing

[Tiffani_B]

I have a horse that wrings his hocks when working on loose dirt or sand footing, but doesn’t do it at all on turf or compacted dirt.

So I have two questions about this.

1. Is it better or worse to work him on a surface that does not allow the hock twisting?

and if it’s better to keep him on a more stable surface, then…

2. Would it make sense to shoe him so he cannot twist on the loose footing? My farrier has already lowered the inside heels on his hind feet but that hasn’t made much of a difference.

I have read dozens of threads here on COTH, posts on other websites, etc and everyone says not to shoe the horse in such a way as to prevent the twisting. But then using that logic, wouldn’t it also be advisable to never work the horse on a surface that provides more grip?

I am working diligently to strengthen this horse’s stifles, but I wonder if it’s truly a conditioning issue or a footing/shoeing issue. I usually work him on more stable footing at home, but most horse shows are on some kind of sand or dirt surface and that’s where it becomes more of an issue.

The twisting occurs mainly at the walk when we’re going around a curve or pivoting - walking in a straight line or trotting and cantering, he’s much more stable. It appears as if he is shifting most of his weight to his toes during the push off phase of his stride, and as his weight shifts, his heels twist out from under him. So I’m wondering if putting something around the toe area or maybe squaring off his toes to keep the toe from twisting would help - because like I said earlier, working on turf where his toes can dig in, he doesn’t twist at all.

[Abbie.S]

So, the reasoning behind why he does it on deeper footing and not on packed footing is simple: it’s harder for him to move in looser, deeper footing.

That’s the case for most horses…much harder to work in deeper footing than on grass/turf or packed ground. It recruits the deep glutes and the quadriceps muscles, and because it’s more difficult it can highlight holes in the horse’s fitness. I’d bet money this horse has weak quads and tight adductors (those adductors are what causes the hock to twist in the weight bearing phase of the stride).

Don’t mess with the horse’s hoof balance. Bad idea. Keep him level and trim him normal. What you can start doing is incorporating pole work with sets of 2 or 3 slightly raised poles to really get at those quadriceps, and he’ll work to strengthen his glutes. Then start going for a long careful hacks in deeper footing mostly at the walk. You can also incorporates stretching exercises, do a Google search for horse adductor stretch and you can get a pretty good idea of what to do.

[JB]

^^ that x 100.

Don’t alter the way of going, as that will just increase the stress on the leg. Trying to force a leg to stay straight, when it’s doing what it does for a good reason, is inviting problems.

Unbalancing the foot is never the right thing to do.

It’s hard to say for sure what the weaknesses in this horse are, but Abbie’s thoughts are a great place to start. Don’t hide that - use it to your advantage to make determinations as to whether he’s getting fitter or not.

Even then, a body moves differently on firmer vs softer surfaces. The lack of support in the sand surface simply makes an animal or human move differently. No person walks the same way on beach sand as they do in their back yard grass. It doesn’t mean they have a problem. It’s also very likely that working more on the sand will change how they move as they get fitter, but there’s still going to be a difference between a surface that allows them to push off, vs one that does not.

[Doctor_sOrders]

This is great advice! I love seeing posts on how to work on horse’s fitness and allow them to accommodate to different settings/situations.

[Tiffani_B]

Thanks for the input - it makes sense. I’ve been doing pole and hill work at the walk 3x a week for 2 weeks now. How long does it take to start seeing results?

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Tiffani B;8664157]
Thanks for the input - it makes sense. I’ve been doing pole and hill work at the walk 3x a week for 2 weeks now. How long does it take to start seeing results?[/QUOTE]

Six months, at least, of consistent correct pole work. You will see muscle changes in a matter of weeks but it takes months for limb loading.

IMHO, the hock twisting is usually secondary to something else: loose or very weak stifles or soreness/injury in stifle or in SI area.

I would not be unbalancing the hoof, as others have said.

[Tiffani_B]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8664169]
Six months, at least, of consistent correct pole work. You will see muscle changes in a matter of weeks but it takes months for limb loading.

IMHO, the hock twisting is usually secondary to something else: loose or very weak stifles or soreness/injury in stifle or in SI area.

I would not be unbalancing the hoof, as others have said.[/QUOTE]

He does have one stifle that is loose. We did a course of esterone last fall and it was blistered about a month ago. It seems much better now (not sticking anymore and he’s much more comfortable in his canter, not swapping leads or crow hopping anymore) so I think it’s tightened up, but now I need to get his stifles STRONGER.

Thanks for all the feedback - I will definitely start adding the adductor stretches into his routine. We already do a series of stretches after he works but this is a new one.

I work him over poles 2-3x a week at the walk. He’s up to doing 5 sets of 4 poles now, plus I mix in going over one pole backwards here and there. I think he’s ready for me to raise one or two of the poles up to make it more challenging. We also do lots of walking up a short hill on my driveway (about 75 feet long, not super steep). It’s not much work so I will stop him a few times on the hill, let him stand, shift his weight back a tad and then ask him to step off at the walk. I do this while driving him, so he is pulling a load. I just started backing him up this hill once in awhile in hand, too, now that he seems to be getting stronger. I wish I had access to more challenging terrain! LOL

I’m also doing tail pulls and I’ve definitely noticed he’s able to hold himself better already when I do those.

Any other exercises I can add in to help him strengthen those stifles? I don’t want to overdo it and hurt him, and since he was just blistered, giving him any kind of NSAID to help with strain isn’t a good idea so I’m trying to take it slow.

[PNWjumper]

I have a TB who travels close behind and twists his hind feet as he picks them up. I also recently noticed that he crosses his hind legs over jumps (which is obviously the conclusion of the twisting off of the ground).

I had to change farriers many years back when my great guy moved several states away. The new guy decided to straighten my guys hind end for me. I didn’t notice a big difference when I rode him for the next week or so, but took him to a show down in CA and ended up with an obviously sore and NQR horse (apparently flatwork was “okay” but coursing around at 1.40m was too much). Took him to the show farrier who told me that the new farrier had left him medially high and shod him in such a way to prevent the “winging” action in his hind feet. He redid his hinds for me and the horse was immediately better. I ended up showing him over the weekend and had my normal horse back.

New farrier has since been extremely careful in how he does his hind feet and works diligently to support his natural way of going. Also makes sure to balance his hind feet well (a lot of the group up here that adhere to the farrier’s school way of doing things don’t believe in medial-lateral balancing, but boy does it make a difference for my guy!). Additionally, I have also changed how I stud this horse when we’re on grass. I use a big grass stud in the outside hole and a smaller one on the inside - the idea is that he can twist his hinds as he moves the way that his body wants him to.

The short story is that trying to make my horse move “normally” crippled him. Working with his natural conformation has left me with a horse who has stayed sound under heavy work for many years.

In your case I’m not sure I would worry as much about footing changes affecting his hind end usage (though I agree with all above who have commented about it being harder to move in looser footing), but I sure as heck wouldn’t try to change it via shoeing. Also, I’ll note that my horse grows a lot of hoof on the medial side of his hind feet and almost none on the lateral side. So my farrier has to take the medial hoof down quite a bit. I suspect that the way he moves causes the imbalance as the foot grows. So if that’s what your farrier is doing (trimming to level or slightly low medially) then it sounds like a good thing. If he’s trying to alter his gait by making him medially low then I would question that.

[PNW_AMTS_Dealer]

Defiantly don’t do any (over) hoof correction, but make sure the trim is correct and balanced. The hind end balance can be tricky to the eye. This is interesting….

http://www.thehorsemechanic.com/hoofcare.html

[Tiffani_B]

[QUOTE=PNW AMTS Dealer;8668264]
Defiantly don’t do any (over) hoof correction, but make sure the trim is correct and balanced. The hind end balance can be tricky to the eye. This is interesting….

http://www.thehorsemechanic.com/hoofcare.html[/QUOTE]

Very interesting, thank you for sharing! I sent it to my farrier.

[digihorse]

Sometimes, following the advice in that article will also create a very sore horse. Mine for instance. You can not trim him to the balance shown on the bottom of the foot. You will make his stifles and hips very sore. You have to trim him to the structure on the leg standing. Make the foot laterally balanced based on stance and movement, not on looking at the foot picked up.

It is not about how the foot lands. It is about how the horse loads the leg and then proceeds over that foot to the breakover point. That is what determines comfort. Today, too many are taught that the landing is all that matters… what do we have… sore horses.

[12hooves]

Just found out my Mustang has wringing hocks. A book was recommended to me by a horse PT. Jec Ballou “55 corrective exercises for horses” I think it’s intent is to help the horse, not try to fix it. Can’t wait to get the book.