Questioning a board price increase - yes, I understand inflation

[Bearx2]

I give you a lot of credit for making sure your clients are good ones that will work in your program. I do feel that every BO deserves good boarders.

[NaturallyHappy]

This is an awesome post. Amen and ditto x 100%!

[Alterration]

Please understand, a lot of what I say is firmly tongue in cheek. I’m not that much of a jerk. I like the boarders that I have, and none of mine would “challenge me” on a board increase. The last of those boarders that I inherited is gone and I vet people extensively before I let them in the door. I don’t want to disrupt things for the horses, my current boarders, or myself.

If we don’t have dark sarcasm, we’d never make it!

[Bearx2]

Lol. I think you have given me some awesome responses and some great things to think about. I would love it if more BO would/ could give people the boot for not working in their programs, but I know that can be hard when you truly care about the horses ( and I think you do from your responses above). At the end of the day boarding is an extremely hard business to be in.

[Bearx2]

Also I think even difficult conversation should be civil and my post above was more directed at the thread overall.

[findeight]

Also think presumed friendship can get in the way of a businesslike conversation. Have heard many say “ I thought the BO was my friend” or ‘but my hours got cut” when board is increased or rules change. That hay guy is not going to accept friendship or excuses any more then the Tax collector, landlord or mortgage holder will. Usually not a hard concept to get across in a business setting.

[quietann]

There’s a place in my area that switched. I do not know the history, but it was so obviously once a stable with a nice indoor.

There’s a huge, beautiful place up in NH that has been turned over to the current owner’s classic car collection. I have never been there, but DH was up there one time and took photos of the former indoor arena with its beautiful footing, which is some kind of rubbery stuff so no ruts (or hoofprints) are left behind.

[Bearx2]

I think you make a really good point, and it must be extremely difficult when a boarder uses that relationship to try and guilt trip a BO about a cost increase. But everyone in the relationship needs to understand that the BO is not responsible for subsidizing a boarders horse ownership. It’s the BO job to provide a service at cost that will allow them to make a living and be upfront about the cost. It’s also the responsibility of the BO to have tough conversations with boarders that can’t afford that cost anymore. I feel as hard as this is, it better to do it sooner rather then latter, so the boarder can find a place they can afford.

[Alterration]

@findeight

Also think presumed friendship can get in the way of a businesslike conversation. Have heard many say “ I thought the BO was my friend” or ‘but my hours got cut” when board is increased or rules change. That hay guy is not going to accept friendship or excuses any more then the Tax collector, landlord or mortgage holder will. Usually not a hard concept to get across in a business setting.

This and again, we usually turn into therapists as much as friends. Barn owners generally know whose husband is leaving, whose business has been sunk because of COVID, and whose health issues are so bad that they are struggling to even make it to the barn. I’ve had people cry on my shoulder as much (if not more) than their therapists because in the list of “jobs to be done” of a horse farm, therapy is often number one on the list. I don’t get that from my SaaS clients.

I know how critical their horses and their care are to them. I know who “can’t” move because the places that they can afford can’t or won’t accommodate their, or their horses, health issues. I do hear daily how grateful they are to be here and learn from me, and horror stories about previous locations and care.

So it’s really really hard to say “ok, now that I know you’re financially or personally struggling, on the edge and need help…I’m going to charge you more or you’re going to have to move your horse and uproot your barn family which has become a key part of your recovery or therapy or whatever”. Obviously that’s not the way I’d say it, but it’s definitely a component.

I’ve had people burst into tears at the thought of moving. Generally that’s not something my SaaS clients do.

It’s yet another thing that is different and weird about this business.

[Bearx2]

I can understand that as well and if you can make it work on your end to keep those horses in your care go for it ( and you seem like the type that will). I do think BOs need to remember it is okay if you can’t do that . @findeight is right promises from them or good intentions from you will not pay the taxes or the hay guy and that asking people to move on , while extremely difficult, can be the best solution.

[candyappy]

@dags

You have now gone from telling barn owners to “budget better” and “live within their means” (so board can be $800/mth) to “well dummy if you just knew how to business”. What exactly are you trying to achieve here? Because around every corner there’s another You’re Just Doing It Wrong from candyappy and it is extremely frustrating. Several barn owners have graciously broke down costs for you, maybe just sit back & learn something? From people that are actually neck deep in this mess?

I am just adjusting to the ever-changing answers on here.

As per other boarding threads it seemed the average for board was anywhere from $ 800- $1000+ so I just started there. At that time all anyone was saying is that you can’t make money in boarding. I challenged that by saying as with any person who has an income we need to live within our means.

I never called anyone a dummy? I just pointed out that running any business is basically the same which is incoming needs to exceed outgoing and you either adjust your expenses or increase your incoming.

I went and read those breakdowns and the only option I see is to either cut back on what they offer ( expenses) or raise board to what it needs to be to cover the increased expenses to offer those services.

Boarders don’t seem to be in favor of paying a high increase OR losing any of the many luxuries that are the norm in today’s full care boarding to cover the shortfall.

What I get from you all here is that if a BO raises board too high they lose all their boarders. So the only option is to run at a loss and I am sorry if that makes no sense to me.

[candyappy]

@Mander

But I’m sure it wouldn’t be more than $800/mo because that’s all that’s required to run the barn and turn a decent profit.

Depending on where you live and if you have a property you own outright, or just open your own property to a few boarders it would be profitable. Especially if you have the acreage to grow your own hay. There are boarding operations out here who do just that.

@kirbydog

She clearly considers herself to be an expert

Never said that.

I have been a boarder & barn worker in the past and have had my own horses at home now for a long, long time.

It just seems that todays boarders do not want to pay the actual costs the BO needs to charge for all the services you require.

I am just trying to find out why ? I think @Alterration says it well.

@Alterration

Ok, I do understand to a degree what @candyappy is saying and I don’t necessarily disagree with the premise, although the figures are a little off.

Should this be a business? Yes. But boarding hasn’t kept up with inflation for a longgggg time. So, even if we were all somehow able to raise prices simultaneously, we’d price a whole lot of horse owners right out of the market.

Which means these horses that we care for like our very own, and the people we care about like family, would be in a very bad spot. Many might find themselves at auction. Some would likely be abandoned with us.

Many of us started boarding with an already established clientele, and if we didn’t, we started with friends who “just wanted a place to keep their horse”…so it starts out a little wonky from the get go.

I think the collective we care about our sport, our charges, and our clients, so much that we sacrifice greatly in order to enable the sport to continue on. So these latest increases in price sock it to a group that is already doing everything we can to keep it alive.

[173north]

@2bayboys

I have seriously considered doggy daycare rather than a horse business on our property. I’m sure I would make way more money and the animals go home every night.

At least 2 boarding facilities in my area have switched to dog boarding in the last few years. Two others are sitting completely empty.

[kirbydog]

@candyappy

I am just adjusting to the ever-changing answers on here.

The answers aren’t changing. They’ve been extremely consistent.

@candyappy

As per other boarding threads it seemed the average for board was anywhere from $ 800- $1000+ so I just started there. At that time all anyone was saying is that you can’t make money in boarding. I challenged that by saying as with any person who has an income we need to live within our means.

We have explained repeatedly why this assumption doesn’t hold. You are implying that people who aren’t making money boarding horses aren’t to sharp. I will tell you that my BO’s are both brilliant, with great business sense, work for and with the uber wealthy, and both know that the facility cannot make much, if any money. They are most definitely not living beyond their means.

@candyappy

What I get from you all here is that if a BO raises board too high they loose all their boarders. So the only option is to run at a loss and I am sorry if that makes no sense to me.

What doesn’t make sense? Nobody wants to lose clients, so you have to be very careful not to price yourself out of the market. Are you not hearing others saying that good quality boarding facilities are slowly fading away?
Just because you boarded a horse, and helped pick stalls, doesn’t mean you know anything about how the business runs

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

@candyappy

I am just adjusting to the ever-changing answers on here.

The answers aren’t really changing. It’s just that, as the discussion has progressed, different aspects of the topic have come up. Because this is a discussion forum. Almost no one crafts a comprehensive, multi-faceted essay addressing all the variables and nuances of the topic for a single post. Rather, things come out in dribs and drabs and in different contexts from different angles.

My take-away from the discussion is that:

1. A boarding facility will always operate at a loss unless the operation is being subsidized in some way(s). This subsidizing means that the board income alone does not have to cover the fair market value of all the expenses related to the property, physical facility, insurance, labor, consumables, fixtures, and whatever else I’ve forgotten to list.

2. Common ways in which boarding operations are subsidized include charging for other services (training, showing, lessons, etc.), paying mortgages, property taxes, and other expenses out of the personal rather than business budget (e.g. BO has an outside job and uses her salary to pay some of the barn expenses), “free” labor from BO and BO’s family, and putting up your own hay.

3. Most of us agree that in a perfect world, a BO would charge enough in board to cover all of the expenses associated with running the boarding facility plus enough of a profit to make it all worth while. However:

a. In most places, the market won’t bear that true cost of boarding and boarders will have to find a cheaper place or get rid of their horses entirely.

b. BOs would rather subsidize boarders in some way(s) and keep their business (for a variety of reasons) than close the facility down.

c. Given the current state of the economy, the rate of inflation, and the increase in demand for and cost of property, many of us fear that the costs of running a boarding facility will, in the not too distant future, exceed the ability of most BOs to subsidize their boarding operation, resulting in the closure of those boarding facilities. And won’t us boarders be in a pickle, then?

Did I cover the key points?

[OverandOnward]

@findeight

Also think presumed friendship can get in the way of a businesslike conversation. Have heard many say “ I thought the BO was my friend” or ‘but my hours got cut” when board is increased or rules change. That hay guy is not going to accept friendship or excuses any more then the Tax collector, landlord or mortgage holder will. Usually not a hard concept to get across in a business setting.

This is exasperatingly true in horse-service relationships of many kinds. Usually with the amateur customer, though.

Providers - BO’s, trainers, etc. - like providers everywhere are ‘professionally friendly’ with customers. Making things pleasant, keeping their business. It’s a recreation after all. Unfortunately customers sometimes see this as something more than it is.

Not all customers, but many. The customer gradually comes to believe that a personal friendship is part of the relationship, even though they are paying for services rendered. And they often fail to see that while they, the customer, have only one BO or trainer or farrier or what-have-you, the other party has many customers. And has had others in the past, will have others in the future.

This doesn’t become an issue until there is a problem or worry on one side or the other. Then things can become complicated very quickly.

This emotional confusion and disconnect often seems to be more true on the customer side and less true on the provider side.

These scenarios are a characteristic of the horse industry that has kept the COTH forums afloat since they came into existence.

I suspect that sports generally probably has very similar issues between amateur/junior customers and paid providers. Maybe some more than others. It would be interesting for someone to do an informal study on that.

Now suddenly in many cases the across-the-board rise in costs is suddenly straining not just the boarder-BO relationship, but the viability of the boarding business entirely. The complications could soon start affecting the horses, as owners are forced into hard choices of their own. This will be an emotional time for the boarder population.

[Alterration]

@candyappy

Boarders don’t seem to be in favor of paying a high increase OR losing any of the many luxuries that are the norm in today’s full care boarding to cover the shortfall.

What I get from you all here is that if a BO raises board too high they loose all their boarders. So the only option is to run at a loss and I am sorry if that makes no sense to me.

Yes, that’s what we’re facing as BOs. And while it makes no sense, it’s also reality, which often doesn’t cooperate with how things “ought to be”.

Which is why so many farms are going for development closer to where the populated areas are, because the farm either folded, or the BOs got tired and said they could make a lot more money and retire at developer prices.

I wish horse owners would get it, but they have such a limited view of what goes on at a barn, on the whole.

[candyappy]

@kirbydog

We have explained repeatedly why this assumption doesn’t hold. You are implying that people who aren’t making money boarding horses aren’t to sharp. I will tell you that my BO’s are both brilliant, with great business sense, work for and with the uber wealthy, and both know that the facility cannot make much, if any money. They are most definitely not living beyond their means.

You seem to be taking it personally and there is no reasoning with you. Brilliant people with great business sense and uber wealthy clients^^^ should mean you can make some kind of profit?

@kirbydog

Nobody wants to lose clients, so you have to be very careful not to price yourself out of the market. Are you not hearing others saying that good quality boarding facilities are slowly fading away?

Then you adjust the services you offer to match what these " clients" are willing to pay. OR You advertise and hopefully find clients who are willing to pay what it costs you to offer the services you do and unload the freeloaders.

What good does it do to keep the barn full and fall short every month?

@kirbydog

Just because you boarded a horse, and helped pick stalls, doesn’t mean you know anything about how the business runs.

I agree I haven’t run a boarding operation so maybe it is hard for me to see where you are coming from in your answers. I guess I am having a problem with it being acceptable on here that the BO is falling short every month?

[candyappy]

@OfCourseItsAnAlter

The answers aren’t really changing. It’s just that, as the discussion has progressed, different aspects of the topic have come up. Because this is a discussion forum. Almost no one crafts a comprehensive, multi-faceted essay addressing all the variables and nuances of the topic for a single post. Rather, things come out in dribs and drabs and in different contexts from different angles.

My take-away from the discussion is that:

1. A boarding facility will always operate at a loss unless the operation is being subsidized in some way(s). This subsidizing means that the board income alone does not have to cover the fair market value of all the expenses related to the property, physical facility, insurance, labor, consumables, fixtures, and whatever else I’ve forgotten to list.
2. Common ways in which boarding operations are subsidized include charging for other services (training, showing, lessons, etc.), paying mortgages, property taxes, and other expenses out of the personal rather than business budget (e.g. BO has an outside job and uses her salary to pay some of the barn expenses), “free” labor from BO and BO’s family, and putting up your own hay.
3. Most of us agree that in a perfect world, a BO would charge enough in board to cover all of the expenses associated with running the boarding facility plus enough of a profit to make it all worth while. However:

a. In most places, the market won’t bear that true cost of boarding and boarders will have to find a cheaper place or get rid of their horses entirely.

b. BOs would rather subsidize boarders in some way(s) and keep their business (for a variety of reasons) than close the facility down.

c. Given the current state of the economy, the rate of inflation, and the increase in demand for and cost of property, many of us fear that the costs of running a boarding facility will, in the not too distant future, exceed the ability of most BOs to subsidize their boarding operation, resulting in the closure of those boarding facilities. And won’t us boarders be in a pickle, then?

Did I cover the key points?

You explained it perfectly and I thank you.

[candyappy]

@Alterration

Yes, that’s what we’re facing as BOs. And while it makes no sense, it’s also reality, which often doesn’t cooperate with how things “ought to be”.

Which is why so many farms are going for development closer to where the populated areas are, because the farm either folded, or the BOs got tired and said they could make a lot more money and retire at developer prices.

I wish horse owners would get it, but they have such a limited view of what goes on at a barn, on the whole.

I thank you for explaining it and not insulting me .

Can I ask you a question? It is like coming full circle of where this thread started, as far as my thinking is concerned.

Do your boarders know you are short every month?

When we started this whole thing it seemed to be the majority of boarding people here were opposed to the BO telling boarders why a raise in prices was warranted?

If boarders actually knew the barn was falling short would many be willing to pay more so the barn would stay open?