Questioning a board price increase - yes, I understand inflation

[Alterration]

@candyappy

I thank you for explaining it and not insulting me .

Can I ask you a question? It is like coming full circle of where this thread started, as far as my thinking is concerned.

Do your boarders know you are short every month?

When we started this whole thing it seemed to be the majority of boarding people here were opposed to the BO telling boarders why a raise in prices was warranted?

If boarders actually knew the barn was falling short would many be willing to pay more so the barn would stay open?

Of course!

The good ones get it. And I’m lucky that I have good ones. That being said, when I first bought this barn, it came with 20 boarders who were paying…less than 90s prices (around $350/mo). The property had not been maintained in 40 years and let’s just say the care was rough. When I announced the price increase, and gave them 3 months to adjust, I lost 10 boarders and definitely got some nastygrams. And I outlined it just as I’ve outlined it here (with a few additional details as to what their horses specific needs were).

Now, for me, I was grateful to see them go, because anyone who would let their horses suffer for the crappy care that they were getting for a buck…well…they weren’t the kind of people I wanted. I did feel for the horses though.

The ones who stayed were mostly beginners who didn’t know the care was poor before (now they understand the difference). There are a couple who made the adjustment, but can’t push much further and those are the ones I really feel for.

Where did the bad boarders go? Out to farms with barbed wire fencing and no stalls. Several of them sold their horses. I’m sure I got bashed pretty heavily, and some of them chose to argue with me online (which was a ton of fun). Most of them were young, so I was as patient as I could be, but man…it definitely got the blood up.

Anyway, my boarders know that I will increase prices again, as I make repairs and improvements and that I’m balancing their needs with the plain old repair needs of the facility. These latest price hitches have me biting my fingernails a bit because it was already going to be a huge expense, and now those prices are doubling and may triple before this all ends.

At the same time, what I’m doing is not sustainable, and they do understand that. So - I can see other boarding barn owners not wanting to lose people because they do count on that to pay a mortgage (I don’t).

I don’t think people were saying BOs shouldn’t explain it, but rather that the boarder is not owed an explanation and those are two different things (even though the conversation ends up very similar). Boarders thinking they are entitled to a breakdown then opens the door for them to try to manage your property for you which is just a nightmare. It sets up an adversarial relationship that just carries on.

I think most barn owners would be happy to explain things to the curious but kind, and it’s all in how you think about and phrase things.

[kirbydog]

@candyappy

You seem to be taking it personally and there is no reasoning with you. Brilliant people with great business sense and uber wealthy clients^^^ should mean you can make some kind of profit?

No, it means that they knew going into this that they weren’t going to make money, but can afford that. They wanted a super fancy barn, with ALL of the amenities, and don’t wish to compromise on that. They own the place outright, no mortgage. The clients I refer to are not the farms clients, they are the clients of the owners, in their businesses. Perhaps I phrased it wrong. The farm clients are definitely wealthy enough to be here, but not at the rate it would need to be to turn a profit. We are a AA show circuit barn, not a regular old boarding facility where everybody does their own thing. We are on the pricier end of the scale in an already expensive area. Bad facilities run over $700 a month for board. We attract people who can afford it and we don’t have free loaders

@candyappy

Then you adjust the services you offer to match what these " clients" are willing to pay. OR You advertise and hopefully find clients who are willing to pay what it costs you to offer the services you do and unload the freeloaders.

What good does it do to keep the barn full and fall short every month?

Umm… do you think we haven’t done this? But thanks for the lesson in how to manage a show barn. The facility serves as a way for rich people to provide a fancy facility for rich people. Our horses get the best of care, the best of turnout, feed, bedding, pro riding, training, all of it. Why would we compromise on care? My point in this is that the very very wealthy can afford the loss, the average barn owner cannot.

Look, if I had several people telling me the same answer to a question, I would tend to believe them.

[hey101]

@Alterration I have greatly enjoyed your posts. You have explained things in a very clear way that completely captures what many of us who offer boarding have felt.

This is why I moved to a dry stall model a few years ago (still carefully screened). My dry stalls are priced to account for the amenities I offer, a potion of PITI utilities and maintenance, but for the foreseeable future I will not increase them. But my people are very directly responsible for the wildly increasing costs of hay bedding feed labor.

I no longer have to explain why board goes up; my people have to pay their own direct costs and understand that the bale of hay that cost $18 6 mo ago is now $23. Or shavings went from $7 to $10/bale. If they want Buddy bedded as thickly as before, they can pay that increase and make their own decisions. Or put one or two less bags of shavings in the stall. Pay for someone to muck and turn out at $20/hr (yea that is the going rate in my area) or do it themselves 24/7

It’s a hard situation for all. My conversations with my tenants is easier for me, but that doesn’t mean we don’t all feel the price models becoming more and more challenging

[Alterration]

@hey101

@Alterration I have greatly enjoyed your posts. You have explained things in a very clear way that completely captures what many of us who offer boarding have felt.

This is why I moved to a dry stall model a few years ago (still carefully screened). My dry stalls are priced to account for the amenities I offer, a potion of PITI utilities and maintenance, but for the foreseeable future I will not increase them. But my people are very directly responsible for the wildly increasing costs of hay bedding feed labor.

I no longer have to explain why board goes up; my people have to pay their own direct costs and understand that the bale of hay that cost $18 6 mo ago is now $23. Or shavings went from $7 to $10/bale. If they want Buddy bedded as thickly as before, they can pay that increase and make their own decisions. Or put one or two less bags of shavings in the stall. Pay for someone to muck and turn out at $20/hr (yea that is the going rate in my area) or do it themselves 24/7

It’s a hard situation for all. My conversations with my tenants is easier for me, but that doesn’t mean we don’t all feel the price models becoming more and more challenging

Thank you! I’m glad to be helpful in any way.

I’ve thought about the dry stall model but I know I wouldn’t be able to handle the differences in horsekeeping. I am…a bit on the retentive side I also wasn’t looking forward to the “so and so used my hay” kinds of conversations or the “your horse needs more hay” conversations, so I’m glad to hear you’ve been successful with it!

I wish all of us good luck with this - horse owners and barn owners alike - as prices get out of control.

[lenapesadie]

If it’s any consolation, there are a segment of boarding clients that are willing to pay to get quality care. Keep on keeping on and the right clients will find you.

[OverandOnward]

@candyappy

I guess I am having a problem with it being acceptable on here that the BO is falling short every month?

You repeatedly assign opinions and words to others that no one has stated.

No one said that was acceptable. Some have explained that it was part of an overall business strategy that included other income streams, as is done for many businesses. Some have said that what was once marginally profitable has gradually become less so, and now drifting into a loss position, yes they are raising rates, but still have dire choices in front of them. But you have repeatedly refused to accept that.

You wish to be right and everyone else be wrong about something you know nothing about – by your own admission!

You continue to adjust your position to achieve this apparent result.

This is the classic sinkhole of social media. What’s been said has been said. Those who are able to understand do understand, at this point.

[Alterration]

Oh It’s all good. 10 is a much more manageable number and since I’ve been losing money on each horse I am not in a hurry to fill stalls. Plus it lets me keep some open as I renovate.

The new ones I have gotten are wonderful. So hopefully we keep it that way!

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

@candyappy

When we started this whole thing it seemed to be the majority of boarding people here were opposed to the BO telling boarders why a raise in prices was warranted?

The original post was pretty adversarial. The OP went back and edited to tone it down a bit. But, a number of posters early on made statements to the effect that an increase in board was something that had to be justified (not just explained, but justified, which is a very different thing) to the boarders and any increases needed to be negotiated between the boarders and the BO. Which, honestly, really ticked me, and several others, off.

So, like @Alterration said, it wasn’t really that people believed that a BO shouldn’t explain it, it was the implication that boarders should have some control over whether and how much board could be raised that provoked a bunch of strongly negative responses, including some of mine.

[kirbydog]

100%

[quietann]

Just got notice of a board increase, and a very detailed explanation from the BO, as well as a pretty strong implication that there will be a larger increase at the normal time (January 1.)

This barn has no trainer, lessons etc for additional income, so I have a sense, at least, of what monthly basic expenses for boarding are in my area.

[OverandOnward]

My BO is expressing ongoing anxiety over the unpredictable cost changes in feed, hay, transportation - everything. We had a conversation about it and I shared some of the feedback in this thread that this is true across the country, it isn’t just her.

She has considered closing to boarders several times - really over the past year or so. However, she really wants to have some boarders, for various reasons (lesson income from boarders is a big one, I think boarders also help against the farm mortgage payment), but is very nervous about losing them if she increases board again. But she acknowledged that every board barn in the area is doing the same (the few board barns that are left).

[Note on the mortgage payment: This is the cost of having a barn, something horse owners have to pay for wherever they keep their horses. So it isn’t an extra. BO is also a high-level judge and judges across the country on a regular basis. I suspect that is what pays for her own horse & riding activity, not the board barn. But I don’t know for sure what her personal finances are. ]

She is concerned that if her rates go up, then later costs come down, she’ll be above market and lose boarders. But if her board rate changes up and changes down, maybe multiple changes over less than 12 months, that won’t look good to current and prospective boarders.

I suggested what someone up-thread said they are doing – add an extra amount to the bills to cover extra costs and call it a ‘surcharge’. Month to month, add the surcharge as needed, or take it away if she doesn’t feel she needs it. If it seems that increased costs are not coming down after a few months, then make the surcharge a permanent part of an increased board rate.

She even talked about leasing the barn to a pro trainer. But that is a new business, really, and it may sink or swim. It puts a lot of trust on a trainer who is an unknown quantity.

As someone said, it isn’t her job to subsidize other people’s horses. But at the same time she loves her barn lifestyle with a small but cool set of boarders.

I suspect this year may be a decision point for her and her husband on the board business. I don’t know if that will be a decision point on having the farm at all, as the boarders help with the mortgage on the property. Boarding and the associated lessons are the only income-activities on the farm. Boarding/lessons have also supported facility improvements. Husband also has a full-time job.

BO and husband have been there over 20 years and it seems they want to stay forever. As they grow older (nearing retirement age now), they’d rather just cut back on some activities that make for more work. I’m thinking they can manage without the barn, but if the barn and other facilities are active, then boarders help cover extra horse costs .

BO is nowhere near ready to stop riding and being active in her horse community. So we will see what happens over the next few months.

[CHT]

We are looking to counteract inflation by reducing the level of service (in the summer). We are planning to just throw hay twice a day, and have slow feeders in the pens for free choice hay. Clients will have to deal with their own extras in the summer. Winter board will have to increase as I don’t feel we can cut services in the winter with the crazy weather and bad roads we get now.

Where I live the older, affordable barns are reaching then end of their lifespans, or being eaten up by urban sprawl. The new barns are LOVELY, but further out and more expensive. I don’t think the new barns really thought about the inevitable increase in utilities though.

[clanter]

@CHT

I don’t think the new barns really thought about the inevitable increase in utilities though.

IF I were to relocate out of the urban area to a more expansive ranch/farm I would make sure that I purchased whatever air ambulance service insurance that covered the area . (cost is usually under $100 per year for a family’s coverage)

If uninsured a helicopter transport can be breathtakingly expensive

Regarding utilities … there is still a Federal Tax credit program for alternative energy (solar or wind) …program is uncapped … a 26% tax credit for systems installed in 2020-2022, and 22% for systems installed in 2023

[quietann]

If one works with a good solar contractor and doesn’t need the work done immediately, they will keep track of rebates and time things to maximize the savings.

Or at least that’s what happened in our case. Our system has paid for itself in 12 years.

[findeight]

If anybody new is reading here…understand the OP (original post and/or poster) asked about how to “challenge” BO on the board increase implying they wanted to confront BO and fight it. So, yeah, the tone of the thread has changed. OP was later edited it and toned down.

Nobody ever said BOs should not share any information on why. Just that full disclosure and explanation of personal and business financial records was not required.

Boarders should be able to accept a simple simple statement like “ My barn operating costs have almost doubled in the past five years and I can no longer cover the loss from my personal finances so must raise board for the first time in years” Something like that should be acceptable to boarders, not start an argument or a demand for specifics.

IMO as a 50+ year boarder in facilities from good to bad to ugly to downright dangerous.

[candyappy]

@Alterration

Of course!

The good ones get it. And I’m lucky that I have good ones. That being said, when I first bought this barn, it came with 20 boarders who were paying…less than 90s prices (around $350/mo). The property had not been maintained in 40 years and let’s just say the care was rough. When I announced the price increase, and gave them 3 months to adjust, I lost 10 boarders and definitely got some nastygrams. And I outlined it just as I’ve outlined it here (with a few additional details as to what their horses specific needs were).

Now, for me, I was grateful to see them go, because anyone who would let their horses suffer for the crappy care that they were getting for a buck…well…they weren’t the kind of people I wanted. I did feel for the horses though.

The ones who stayed were mostly beginners who didn’t know the care was poor before (now they understand the difference). There are a couple who made the adjustment, but can’t push much further and those are the ones I really feel for.

Where did the bad boarders go? Out to farms with barbed wire fencing and no stalls. Several of them sold their horses. I’m sure I got bashed pretty heavily, and some of them chose to argue with me online (which was a ton of fun). Most of them were young, so I was as patient as I could be, but man…it definitely got the blood up.

Anyway, my boarders know that I will increase prices again, as I make repairs and improvements and that I’m balancing their needs with the plain old repair needs of the facility. These latest price hitches have me biting my fingernails a bit because it was already going to be a huge expense, and now those prices are doubling and may triple before this all ends.

At the same time, what I’m doing is not sustainable, and they do understand that. So - I can see other boarding barn owners not wanting to lose people because they do count on that to pay a mortgage (I don’t).

I don’t think people were saying BOs shouldn’t explain it, but rather that the boarder is not owed an explanation and those are two different things (even though the conversation ends up very similar). Boarders thinking they are entitled to a breakdown then opens the door for them to try to manage your property for you which is just a nightmare. It sets up an adversarial relationship that just carries on.

I think most barn owners would be happy to explain things to the curious but kind, and it’s all in how you think about and phrase things.

Yes, I don’t think they( boarders) need to know a detailed cost breakdown of your expenses but as you said they need to be aware of how much everything is increasing in cost and that current board rates are not meeting the cost increases.

You would think most would already know that due to what we are experiencing in our everyday lives but some may be totally clueless about hay and feed prices and anything related to that.

[candyappy]

@kirbydog

Umm… do you think we haven’t done this?

But thanks for the lesson in how to manage a show barn. The facility serves as a way for rich people to provide a fancy facility for rich people. Our horses get the best of care, the best of turnout, feed, bedding, pro riding, training, all of it. Why would we compromise on care? My point in this is that the very very wealthy can afford the loss, the average barn owner cannot.

Nobody said you have to compromise on care. Many barns are pretty basic and are able to offer great quality care. Many of us backyard horse owners give our horses the best care as well.

I have no idea what you may have done with your business but if you are catering to the rich then you shouldn’t be having a problem meeting costs?

[clanter]

@candyappy

if you are catering to the rich then you shouldn’t be having a problem meeting costs?

When I had my service businesses (overhead door company and a company that did access control work automatic gate operator systems) I had both stop working for the general public as often the “rich” were really slow pay.

There was only one client that I kept

[OneTwoMany]

I haven’t read all of the 578 prior responses. So I may be repeating what others have already said.

Rather than getting caught up in whether an 8% increase in stall board versus a 16% increase for field board is “justified” it might be useful to focus on your specific situation.

Can you find another barn that offers the care you desire at a lower rate than your current barn? If the answer is “yes”, it might be time to move. If the answer is “no” you might be lucky to be in your current situation.

If you are a student of economics, you know that inflation often hits/hurts the service or product with the highest exposure to variable costs harder.

A lot of folks on the forum are suggesting you confront the BO or ask for justification for the pricing increase. Before you go down that rabbit hole, you may find it useful to run a generic P&L analysis comparing field and stall board. If the cost of hay, grain, labor, etc. goes up equally on field and full board, but the depreciation on the full board remains constant, and if the BO wishes to price accordingly to recoup their costs, the field boarders will have a higher percentage price increase. That is simply the way the math works.

Best of luck and hope things work out for you!!

[kirbydog]

@candyappy

Nobody said you have to compromise on care. Many barns are pretty basic and are able to offer great quality care. Many of us backyard horse owners give our horses the best care as well.

We are not basic or back yard. Why can’t you understand this? We are a higher end AA show barn. There are certain expectations we have to meet, that you clearly don’t get. We have a number of people who I am sure are making sacrifices to be able to keep their horses here

@candyappy

I have no idea what you may have done with your business but if you are catering to the rich then you shouldn’t be having a problem meeting costs?

As a matter of fact, we will be raising our board again, and it will help offset costs.
Either you are ignoring the facts we are presenting, or you are being willfully obtuse? Read the posts from all of the BO’s and managers!