Questioning a board price increase - yes, I understand inflation

[TheBigEasy]

I’m feeling extra appreciative for my BO after reading all this.

Indoor / outdoor rings. Round pen. Miles of trails. Stadium jumps (gotta set them and tear down yourself). Let’s us park our trailers for no additional charge. Wash racks. All the things, but done economically. Will catch and hold for the farrier and blanket in a pinch for no charge.

Sent out a two page letter with 30 day notice on a 8% increase on an already very fair (probably low-to-market) board price.
Letter spelled out all the increases and also what they’ve done to decrease costs where possible.

Dear BO - TAKE MY MONEY - please stay in business!!!

[Angela_Freda]

@TheBigEasy

Letter spelled out all the increases and also what they’ve done to decrease costs where possible.

This is awesome.
Right now my Facebook Marketplace is awash in ads for horse hay. Some of it is second cutting, so from last year, stored indoors. If one can store it, buying in bulk is a great way to cut some costs.
Same with pretty much all consumables (bedding, grain, etc)

[Horsehusband]

Never understood boaders entitlement to think they can dictate the price a business owner chooses to charge. Most businesses aren’t run for the purpose of charity, they are run to turn a profit and provide a living for peoples families. The majority of barn owners/trainers/grooms are saints as they themselves choose to live in poverty for the love of the sport/animal.

If you don’t like what is being charged you have options. Find somewhere cheaper, pony up and bring your horses home (As described above most of you are in for a suprise), or come to the realization that you aren’t finanical in a position to support a horse. Stop expecting charity from businesses that are in most cases just struggling to keep the lights on.

Horses are expensive. It’s not something most are going to be able to afford and its going to get harder by the year. Personally, I’d rather a barn owner raise prices than try to cut costs to the point that my horses are not getting enough hay, shavings, feed, turnout, etc.

Again you all have options.

[candyappy]

@pn

“You have now gone from telling barn owners to “budget better” and “live within their means” (so board can be $800/mth) to “well dummy if you just knew how to business”. What exactly are you trying to achieve here? Because around every corner there’s another You’re Just Doing It Wrong from candyappy and it is extremely frustrating. Several barn owners have graciously broke down costs for you, maybe just sit back & learn something? From people that are actually neck deep in this mess?”
. You said this with way more diplomacy than I was going to.

If you had continued to read through the thread you would have seen that some people who actually run a boarding operation were kind enough to answer my questions instead of getting all defensive and taking it personally and attacking me.

They showed me that just boarding alone is not enough and that you need other avenues of revenue like training, sales, lessons etc… in addition to just offering boarding services. I thanked them, message received and moved on.

I never said they were doing it wrong. I never called anyone dummy.

I don’t see how the concept of living within your means ( you live with a budget and buy what you can afford on the current salary you have) is an insulting thing. It is something we all should do but it seems to be a novelty here.

[quietann]

I was thinking about this the other day. The problem may be that you used “making a living” instead of “making a profit” in one of your early comments.

Many (most?) BOs are not trying to live off the barn income; I just don’t think it’s that possible outside a training barn or a place with facilities that can be rented out.

I’ve had my mare in 5 barns and there was only one where I think the BO was trying to make a living from the barn. She had a lot of horses in full training or in as commission sales horses. In all the others, there was outside money from jobs, family inheritance, etc.

In all 5 barns, the boarding/training helped subsidize the BOs own horses. They needed to charge enough to have a profitable business even if the profit was very small.

[candyappy]

@quietann

I was thinking about this the other day. The problem may ne that you used “making a living” instead of “making a profit” in one of your early comments.

You are probably right. I can’t remember anymore with all the directions it went. They kind of go hand in hand. Any profit would go to making a living?

My BO’s wife had a real good job off farm. My BO did horse training and sales as well as lessons, offering breeding services( TB & OH studs) and we had outside trainers who brought their clients in so many other avenues of revenue.

[173north]

The Noelle Floyd podcast, which I quite like, published a podcast on owning a boarding barn yesterday: https://www.noellefloyd.com/blogs/equestrian-voices-podcast/behind-the-scenes-of-running-a-boarding-business

[Guyot]

Making a living wage and turning a profit are two very different things!!!

A business should be able to cover wages as a business expense AND make a profit.

The profit is what should be covering capital improvements and return on investment.

Wages should be paid to any and all employees which includes the business owner, usually a CEO.

Only in the horse world do we expect the barn owner to not make a living wage but to work another job (trainer or other) to prop up the capital investments out of their wage because the business isn’t able to sustain a wage let alone a profit.

This is the fundamental issue and problem with the horse world that has been accepted for decades; and if those of us who wanted to work with horses it was an acknowledged sacrifice.

Where this falls off the rails emotionally is when we are told we just aren’t doing it right…. No, we are held hostage to a culture of sacrifice to our love of horses and a desire to work with them… then told how bad we are at it if we can’t make a living. When charging enough to be making a living would put us out of business. Rock meet hard place.

[Pokerface]

As much as I would love for the hardworking barn owners to make a living wage off of board alone, I just don’t see it as possible in the US. I live in a horsey area of a horsey state. A lot of people ride and own. We have several nice show series in our area. Where we are is an EXPENSIVE cost of living area. If board prices were to rise to a level where BOs could make a living off of board alone, my guess would be that at least 70% of our local barns would not be able to stay open AND be able to provide the facility to attract people who could pay that level for board alone. I know I personally could not afford it, and most of my barnmates coult not either. Or, maybe we could afford board alone, but then we could not afford lessons. I personally have a green horse who absolutely needs to be in a program. Many of the other people at my barn are more beginner riders or otherwise need more help. All of us would have to decide if we could continue riding, or be faced with unsafe situations. That’s not us being stingy, that’s the reality of the economy. If only the very rich could ride, many trainers would be out of business. Additionally, our local show series would likely disappear since those very rich clients would want to go to bigger and fancier shows. Same would likely go for x-country venues for eventing as that is also a population of horse owners who does things on a tighter budget.

So, yeah, sadly, if people want to be in the horse world, they have to do more than one job. At my barn, we have 3 trainers, all teach many lessons, do horse care, own horses and ponies they lease, braid, and find creative ways to bring in income so they can continue to do the thing they love. When prices went up this year, we were all very understanding. No one (that I’m aware of) got upset. They were transparent about everything, and there is no doubt that they all work hard to make things work for everyone.

It’s a tight-rope balancing act for sure. For the sake of the industry, we need to be sensitive to both sides so that we do not price ourselves out of horses and conversely do not drive trainers and barn owners (and farriers and vets, etc) to the poorhouse or the insane asylum. Boarders need to be sensitive to the many layers of horse care that they might not consider. Equine professions need to be sensitive to keeping clientele so that they can keep their doors open.

[2bayboys]

My prediction is that, outside of the most very basic of boarding farms, the only option that will be available to horse owners who want any kind of amenities is a full training/lesson/showing program in their boarding package. That and sales seems to be the only income producing element related to keeping horses. In effect, barn owners/trainers have to subsidize the boarding of their clients horses in order to create the space for those lessons and shows to happen. I can’t think of any other industry that operates with this model.

[dags]

@candyappy

I never said they were doing it wrong. I never called anyone dummy.

Allow me to clarify:

@candyappy

I just pointed out that running any business is basically the same which is incoming needs to exceed outgoing and you either adjust your expenses or increase your incoming.

Stating & re-stating (& re-stating) basic Business 101 concepts like it’s some complicated subject that barn owners have never even heard of is basically calling them dummies without ever having to use the word “dummy”.

See also:

@candyappy

I don’t see how the concept of living within your means ( you live with a budget and buy what you can afford on the current salary you have) is an insulting thing. It is something we all should do but it seems to be a novelty here.

SMH. Living within your means is not a new or novel concept to barn owners. It certainly doesn’t need to be defined for them.

And now we’re right back to where we started, this weird insinuation that if barn owners weren’t so goshdarndang frivolous they would all be making money on board. Which, as far back as I can recall (the 90s), has never made anyone any money.

[candyappy]

@Guyot

Making a living wage and turning a profit are two very different things!!!

A business should be able to cover wages as a business expense AND make a profit.

The profit is what should be covering capital improvements and return on investment.

Wages should be paid to any and all employees which includes the business owner, usually a CEO.

Only in the horse world do we expect the barn owner to not make a living wage but to work another job (trainer or other) to prop up the capital investments out of their wage because the business isn’t able to sustain a wage let alone a profit.

Not only in the horse world. Many pastors of smaller churches are bi-vocational and churches are non profit. They may have money on hand but that isn’t profit.

For many of us just making enough to cover our expenses each month has to be good enough and we keep our horses at home. Hard times for all it seems.

[candyappy]

@dags

Stating & re-stating (& re-stating) basic Business 101 concepts like it’s some complicated subject that barn owners have never even heard of is basically calling them dummies without ever having to use the word “dummy”.

If you take what you read and make it something else you can’t blame me for your interpretation. It is a simple concept for anyone who has a job and bills to pay.

Yet even though people in all walks of life probably know this , somehow we have a huge issue with debt that cannot be paid because people choose to spend more than they make. Look at our government as a prime example.

I restated it because no-one was answering my question, just lashing out. No discussion on ways a BO may be able to cut costs because boarders are not able to pay more and are unwilling to lose any of the many services offered in todays boarding that are not a necessity but a luxury.

@dags

SMH. Living within your means is not a new or novel concept to barn owners . It certainly doesn’t need to be defined for them.

And now we’re right back to where we started, this weird insinuation that if barn owners weren’t so goshdarndang frivolous they would all be making money on board. Which, as far back as I can recall (the 90s), has never made anyone any money.

If you took it one way that again is on you. How we spend the money available to us is a very personal and totally individual thing. This thread was about BO’s but the living within your means applies to everyone.

As I answered to a poster above --my questions were answered . I have moved on.

I was never out to offend BO’s personally . I was raised in such a way as you don’t spend what you don’t have. If that is such a foreign concept here than I am sorry if I offended anyone. I can’t help it if you take it a different way.

[Jsalem]

As a Trainer, there are 2 reasons to own a farm. By owning my own farm, I get to control how things are done with the horses in my training program. I chose the farrier, the vet, the training schedule, the show schedule, etc. For a trainer, this is essential. There’s nothing so frustrating as working with a ship in client who has competition goals but doesn’t do a good job managing the care and schedule for their horse. At my farm, I have a captive audience if you will and my horses are managed professionally. They are all up to date on all vet work, they are shod on a schedule and never have to wait more than a day if they lose a shoe. I have an indoor arena and a treadmill, so my horses are worked regularly and on a schedule that fits their age and training level- they are fit and calm. I only accept training clients- no straight Boarders. Yes, we Trainers get criticized for being “controlling” but well managed horses are healthier and happier and a drama free barn is a joy for everyone. It’s a tremendous amount of work, hassle and financial gymnastics to stay in the black on the Boarding side of the operation. I receive zero pay for managing the farm- only for Training/Showing/Sales. But I’m much happier without the hassle of dealing with crazy people. I don’t have to do that.

And of course, the other reason to own a farm is the long game. I leased a lovely farm for 12 years and spent nearly 1 million dollars in rent over time. In my case, my monthly lease price by stall was more expensive than my “per stall” Mortgage, Insurance and Taxes on the farm we purchased, so it was a smart move to purchase and have something to show at the end.

I don’t feel the slightest bit guilty turning away people who want to board at my farm without training, nor do I feel bad moving along clients who can’t stay current on their Board or Training fees. For me, managing the Boarding side is the price I pay to buy the real estate and to have a beautiful, well managed, and drama free farm to work out of.

As I may have said earlier, I keep separate accounts for the the Boarding and the Training/Sales/Showing operations. I strongly recommend this approach for anyone owning their own farm. The Boarding account doesn’t have to “make a profit” but it does have to stay in the black- including a monthly deposit into a Savings account to cover taxes, insurance, repairs and emergencies. My Board rate “is what it is”. My clients are paying what it costs to keep their horse with me. Period.

[kirbydog]

@candyappy

I restated it because no-one was answering my question, just lashing out. No discussion on ways a BO may be able to cut costs because boarders are not able to pay more and are unwilling to lose any of the many services offered in todays boarding that are not a necessity but a luxury.

Actually, we did address it. We raise the rent. And some boarders will complain, because they just don’t get it

[quietann]

I am guessing that candyappy has rather … different … standards of horse keeping than many of us.

[kirbydog]

I’m guessing that she has no idea what a big (50+) show horse/riding school/fox hunting barn costs or requires, even though she feels like she can tell us how to do it

[B_and_B]

I got burned over at Current Events, I feel like continuing my sadomasochism…I think @candyappy has a point. And other posters have alluded to it. The boarding industry is not, never has, and can not, make either a profit or a living wage on its own. And, if you are a business person, that is rather stupid, which is the point that offends.
Boarding is subsidized by a couple of options: the owner has another income stream (horse related or not) Or the boarding barn is living off of cheap land, depreciated buildings, and no mortgage, and low overheard in terms of labor/regulation/insurance. The latter is very common. The latter is rapidly vanishing. It is the latter that is at the heart of the problem. Horses are relatively cheap if you have plenty of depreciated (ie no mortgage) land and labor. If you have neither, they are suddenly revealed as a luxury that most of us can no longer afford.
This is an ‘emperor with no clothes’ issue, as horsepeople we all know it, we all excuse it; because as the people piling on Candyappy have correctly stated: board rates cannot be raised to the point that makes it possible to board horses and make money. Unless we accept that horses are about to become a true luxury item.

[kirbydog]

When the CFO of my BO’s company first looked at the books, he said there was no way this place would ever make money, and they were ok with that. They could afford some loss. A couple years, we sold horses and made good money on them, and those years, we actually were black or even. We also lost money on sale horses, cuz, ya know, horses…

[Justice]

As a farm owner, I am laughing at the very idea of making a profit on board! I don’t board outside horses because I would go broke.