Ok, I just have to say, you crack me up. Thanks for that! I really needed it today.
Definitely the crux of the matter. And what happens when a barn like that goes too far down the hole? It just closes. Sells to developers. The barn I bought was headed there.
This goes hand in hand with the loss of the middle-income tier of the American public.
What bothers me the most miss that I see no way of fixing it. I do think it’s kind of a canary in the coal mine issue.
It was also stated here by BO’s that there is no way that they can raise board enough to cover the expenses every month.
In affect they will lose their boarders if they actually charge what is needed to cover the expenses.
What you consider a necessity of horse keeping, I probably do consider it a luxury.
Needs:
My horses get all the good hay/ pasture they can safely eat ( 1 is muzzled on pasture). They get a RB and my youngster gets RB along with Strategy Fall- Spring as he needs a bit extra. Also a vit/ min supplement. Heated trough in Winter.
They have 24/7 access to the barn with a lean-to if they wish to use it. They are dry lotted overnight during the pasture season but I don’t stall.
Year round scheduled farrier care, vaccinations and deworming. Vet care when needed.
I realize you all have different standards for what full board consists of. Many of those items drive up the BO’s costs and it seems boarders are unwilling to change.
If you want to board at that barn then be willing and prepared to pay what is required to fully meet the needs of that boarding operation.
You seem happy enough to pay what you feel you can and let the BO fall behind every month and make up the difference out of their own pocket. Why is that acceptable to you?
It sounds like you’re keeping your horses casually.
One huge difference is that you have pasture in the first place. That reduces costs.
Also, presumably you have no desire to keep a horse in work in a cold winter climate - add clipping, blanketing, and possibly an indoor arena.
The herd situation is not doable for all horses, nor is 24/7 in-out living.
Nor can all horses thrive on a ration balancer.
This is not what we call full care. That would be very basic board at a show barn. Full care would be a heated barn ( we are in N Illinois, so that’s a luxury) pasture if it’s appropriate for the individual horse, custom feeding plans, daily grooming, tacking up for the owner/rider, cleaning tack, bathing, clipping, bandaging, icing after jump schools, basically doing whatever is necessary for the care of the horse and rider. Including the other things you mentioned. 12 12 well bedded box stalls, with Dutch windows. Etc, etc etc. Think Wellington or the nicer parts of Ocala
Some of these horses cost more than my home, so pasture board isn’t even in the realm of possibility. The people who own these horses want all of it. The people who own the place also want all of it. That’s why they bought it. But they understand that they will drive out some of the clients if they raise the rent to much, so the boarders are more or less helping to subsidize the facility; they keep the lights on, so to speak. .
Pay attention!!! I’m not a client, I’ve told you that. I manage the barn and am the head trainer. I bring in good clients, who can pay the bills. I’m not the CFO (yes, we have one) I’ve told you several times now that the BO’s are willing to take the loss so they can have the place they want, and if the clients don’t like it, they can go.
Well, diesel fuel is now over $5 a gallon in my area. The places I drove by today were $5.17 and $5.25 per gallon. Prices typically go up in the summer so I hate to imagine what this summer will bring.
I was targeting a show in Kentucky in June but that’s now out of the question. I’m holding my breath on what hay will cost this summer.
Well orchard grass hay in Tennessee - not western hay shipped in) - 3x3x8 is $145 a bale picked up. It was $100 last year. It is really nice hay but nothing like the stuff they grow in Colorado. I don’t even want to price that stuff. I do not know what a regular small square bale sells for. I am sure there is a lot of “mixed” grass hay cheaper but my horses do not like fescue. Most expensive hay is the hay they won’t eat!
Late on here but….comparing spiritual leaders who often take a vow of poverty or forsake material needs and certainly go into the position knowing they are dependent on charity to BOs providing services for luxury animals is….ahhh….out there.
If pn is still reading and wondering what to charge for consulting on horsekeeping facilities? How about charging your private lesson rate per hour? Your time is worth that much and substantially less then a professional in that field would charge.
And some will get out of horses, making the pool even smaller.
That doesn’t help boarding barns, trainers, etc either.
So what is the answer?
I used to take in a boarder or two at my private barn. Super clean, safe and excellent care. Just not fancy . However my last boarder moved her horse about a year ago when she was transferred for her job.
I have not taken in another. why? (She was a great boarder so that wasn’t the problem)
Because the market in my area will not support what I have to charge to barely break even. As it was I cleared $3 a day after feeding her horse etc. That was my salary.
And that was before hay, grain and fuel prices skyrocketed.
It’s not worth all that is involved with having another horse here, plus their person and all their stuff in my tackroom to not even get a little something out of it.
Everyone wants something for nothing.
You are right. I currently keep my horses at home for my own pleasure. My current farm has pasture and that does cut down on the amount of hay. My previous farm in MN did not and we fed hay to my 3 all year round.
When I did board my horses I rode year round and did compete. While I did not clip them they were blanketed full time. We had 2 large outdoor arenas and horses were never turned out since it was a very urban area. They had stalls or stalls with small runs only.
So I am aware of other ways of horse keeping and added costs.
The main difference in my full board experience was that it was the owners responsibility to get their horses out for daily exercise, blanket/ unblanket ( as needed) that was accomplished by doing it ourselves or exchanging favors with a like minded fellow boarder or paying for someone to do it.
The same went for grain. If you wanted your horse to have it then you made sure they did and that was on your own dime as well. For someone to feed it and for you to supply it. We didn’t have RB in those days.
The one thing I have learned from this thread is that BO’s are expected to supply all these extras, as many boarders are accustomed to it being included in “full board”. I realize it is region specific but maybe boarders in that region need to adjust to today’s reality?
We all have experienced the economic changes and with the cost of purchasing feed, bedding , paying utilities, taxes and maintenance needs, etc… it sounds like those of you who board need to step up and resume some of the costs of horse keeping yourselves.
Especially if your horse is a hard keeper. I don’t care what type of bagged feed you buy it has all at least doubled in cost , makes no difference if it is some cheap off brand or not.
I get that but your situation is not comparable to other boarding operations who can’t absorb the losses, which are probably a majority of them out there. You should feel blessed you aren’t struggling like most.
The owners have deep pockets and the clients do as well. The average BO and boarder don’t have such luxury.
It’s not regional, it full service boarding vs basic boarding. Think white table cloth dining vs fast food. It’s everywhere there are show horses, in all 50 states
Region specific, definitely. For full board, grain is included; usually so is blanketing, fly masks/fly spray in the summer etc.
Many people choose full board because going to the barn every day is out of the question, let alone twice. I make it out 4 to 5 times per week, and can do that mostly because I work from home 3 days per week, or when I was part time it was easier. I’m more involved in my mare’s care than some of my fellow boarders. People who can afford high end barns tend to have high-responsibilty jobs, travel extensively for work and so forth.
At the level of barn where I board, tacking up, grooming, cleaning tack etc would not be expected of the barn staff. Horses and owners are not “in a program” like they are in kirbydog’s facility. (I honestly would hate that!) Vet-ordered treatments like soaking a hoof, providing medication that can’t just be thrown in the grain, limited hand walking, holding for vet and farrier etc are included. At other barns these things are extra charges.
Some BOs prefer full board because neglectful treatment from owners is an issue. How many times do we read about people stealing other peoples’ grain, hay, etc? Or horses in heavy blankets on 60 degree days? Skinny (or fat) horses because the owner is weird about grain? The horse owner pays for grain one way or another anyway, whether buying themselves or as part of board.
Every barn I’ve been at charged extra for more than 2 grain meals per day, extra hay, etc.
It’s just another way of doing things. BOs who cut services might experience more hassle.
How is putting more back on the horse owner any different than raising board? If you reduce services offered, boarder is now paying more to supply their own feed and travel to the barn more often. The end is essentially the cost of boarding for the horse owner has gone up whether it’s paid to the BO or the gas station, feed store, child care, etc.
Yet another chat with my BO (a couple of them mentioned up-thread) who after boarding horses for, I think, 20 years has said she is close to getting out …
She is pretty much getting out. She has decided that she is not advertising to replace the boarders who have left recently. (Left for life reasons, not barn reasons. This BO’s care is excellent and so is her selection of boarders. Her boarders have been known to stay until their horse died of old age.)
Instead she will be featuring haul-in lessons and occasional clinics. She already does several haul-in lessons almost every week.
The lessons that were part of the boarding package were the principal reason to offer boarding. Teaching only to haul-ins will bring in income without the financial issues of offering boarding. Although the certain weekly lessons of the boarders will be missed, she’s decided that the negative boarding financials are not worth it.
The principal reason for not continuing the boarding are the ongoing cost increases and the difficulty for her of passing those on to boarders. She can and will pass on these costs, but the irregularity and unpredictability is hard for her from a management standpoint. The constant changes makes for an unstable situation as there is no knowing which boarders will leave due to cost increases.
She’s not officially “closing” . But she is not advertising or putting the word out, and expects that the stalls will remain empty.
If things stabilize then she may reconsider. But at this point, even if fluctuating costs are no longer an issue, it may be easier not to offer boarding.
One more local boarding option gone. Although she rarely had openings - if people got in, they stayed in.
So the last conversation went like this… they had originally asked me to come and help with placement and such, prior to getting such sound advice from my dear friends at COTH. SO, I offered them this coming Wednesday from 2-4. It’s an hour drive, so leave the farm at 1, back at 5.
Response- could you come tomorrow after 6. Me-no, since it’s feeding time and have to be back for nightcheck by 9
Her
How about Tuesday afternoon?
Me-no, have a vet appt scheduled, again , how about Wednesday?
Her-no, I have a big job that day
Me- ok let me know.
I work in the barn basically 9-9 and do the10 horses myself- everything including all outdoor work.
My time is precious and every hour counts. I seriously think they don’t realize somebody magically makes the place look nice and fairies make the horses shiny and pretty. Somewhere in the day I do my best to get my own two ridden.
Absolutely the truth!!
My trainer calls them soul suckers😅
Thank you!! Great advice about the lesson rate. I will give one “ free” consultation “;, wishing I would occasionally just say Not happening.
I’ve read every word here, it’s fascinating reading. It seems like mostly both sides agree. Barn owners do it as also our of love and some boarders just don’t understand that we don’t charge for everything.
It’s a tiny bit like a nice restaurant. Some, if you ask for extra mayo, cheerfully bring it to the table and move on. Some restaurants will tell you there is a small charge for the mayo, some just add it to the bill. Your choice to contest, shut up and pay, or keep going back because the service and the meal were so great, even if a couple of dollars more. Some will just keep on complaining about the lousy cheap restaurant charging for every little thing and passing it on to the poor customer who is just hungry and wants to be fed AND get all the appointments of the better place. If you want it, you must pay somewhere, or go where it is not and you but the extras out of your own pocket
Thank you!
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