Questions about putting weight on a Clydesdale

[Voie_La]

Hey there,

My Clydesdale gelding is the first horse I’ve ever owned. I’ve owned him for about 3 years now. He’s in his 10th year. He’s a full clyde standing at 17.2hh. Through horse ownership, I have learned that owning a horse and riding horses truly are two separate hobbies, but I’m determined to do right by this horse. Sorry if this post is long, just trying to provide the important details for you wise horse folk to help me out with.

Last year around mid-summer I had to move him from the place where he was kept for about 4 years to a privately owned farm. In about 2 months I saw him drop from his normal healthy weight to a weight that was just too light. Long story short, I saw so many red flags that I knew I couldn’t trust the farm owners, and therefore I couldn’t keep him there. I moved him to a friend’s farm for a few months (sort of an emergency maneuver) until I found the right facility, which I finally found in December.

Looking back I feel like a fool for not measuring his weight and keeping tabs on the hard data. I was always told that he weighed about 1650-1700lbs. To this day I have never really measured him, just eyeballed his condition. The vet always told us how much dewormer to give him, and he was always healthy looking under the conditions of the first farm I kept him at. In fact, last December before moving him to where we are now I had the vet out for a wellness check and to take a look at his sheath which was swollen at the time (this has since cleared up without issue). When I describe him as skinny it’s not like his hips are showing, but his topline had degraded to the point where it changed the fit of his saddle, and his chest and shoulders seemed less robust. His barrel has some kind of jiggly to it, but I can still feel ribs even today. The Vet told me my horse wasn’t in bad shape, he checked his teeth again, coat and eyes were bright, vitals were fine, wasn’t in poor condition, the fecal count came back and there was only one egg. I had been feeding him U-guard as a precaution and it didn’t seem like he had an issue with ulcers (although we opted not to scope).

So going forward I’m going to do this right. My horse has access to a round bale outside where he is kept, is blanketed, and given about a pound of hi-fat high fiber feed in the morning. In the evening I feed about 2lbs of shredded beet pulp (with molasses), a cup of vegetable oil (which I feel could be increased?) and Black’s Bioplus multivitamin (I think the biotin, selenium and other vitamins and minerals make for an excellent top dressing http://www.horseflowers.com/horsemineral/bioplus.html), 1oz of loose salt (he also has salt licks in the paddock), and I have recently introduced pelleted alfalfa (starting with a 2lb scoop, but ready to increase if needed).

Now I need to know,

Does a regular horse weight tape take an accurate measurement of a draft horse’s weight? If not, how should I go about measuring his weight? I bought a weight tape and it didn’t fit around him!

When I estimate his weight how do I know if I’m feeding way too little? Are any of the quantities standing out to you as being way too little for him? Say he’s anywhere between 1500 and 1700lbs, am I falling drastically short anywhere?

While I’m trying to put weight on him should I be cautious about exercising him? Even if it’s just on the lunge line?

Any other tips?

As I said, I just want to do right by my horse! I don’t have horsey parents, I’m just figuring this out on my own. My feed is inspired by the high fat low starch diets that seem to suit drafts, or so I’ve been reading about. Any more tips or resources would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks kindly in advance

[Scribbler]

Can we see photos? One person’s skinny can be a other person’s obese plus to me it sounds like it could be muscle loss rather than just weight loss

Crap hay with low protein and lack of good exercise can cause muscle and topline loss without the horse being actually underweight.

[Voie_La]

Can we see photos? One person’s skinny can be a other person’s obese plus to me it sounds like it could b⁸e muscle loss rather than just weight loss

Good point, he’s probably just lost what little muscle he once had.

I’m attaching a picture here for your consideration

[Scribbler]

He’s not underweight. He could maybe use some muscle but he doesn’t need anymore fat.

[JB]

Use the ( (heartgirth x heartgirth) / 330 ) + 50 (or divide by 300 and leave off the 50), and see what you get for weight. That’s going to be more accurate than a tape for most horses. A tape is fine for tracking changes. It’s going to be less and less accurate for horses who are longer or shorter relative to their legs (ie tall or long rectangles, not squares)

What hi fat feed? Is there a reason you chose such a small amount of that feed, and then are adding 2lb of beet pulp, and oil?

FEC was clean - what has he been dewormed with in the last year, and when?

[Parrotnutz]

I own a 1/2 clyde-1/2 Hackney 17 hand 17 hand cross. He lives on 1/4 scoop of high fat pellets, grass outside and hay and I still have to watch how much he consumes as he puts on weight quickly. In my opinion, judging from your photo your horse is not skinny, but seems to lack muscle. I will say my horse was out of work for 2 months while I was selling a house and moving to another and he looked similar because he lost so much muscle in that time. Are you riding regularly? Work makes a big difference in body in these guys.

[B_and_B]

I’d say not skinny but lacking muscle, especially in the shoulder/top line. The ribs are well covered and the hind end isn’t sunken in from what I can tell. You want to keep them on the lighter side if possible. (says the owner of a Goodyear Blimp!)
I’ve found that a lack of muscle tone can end up looking quite odd on the drafts, somehow the lack of muscle accentuates the heavy bone structure in the shoulder/neck. Keeping them fat makes them look like they have that muscle, but they actually don’t. So a draft that is a good weight and not fat but lacks muscle, ends up looking thinner than they actually are.
Do you have anywhere that you can do hill work with him? Hills seem to really help to build the topline, I’ve found.

[Angela_Freda]

Lack of topline or muscling could indicate IR also, which is common in drafts, no?
I’d be looking at the sugar in all his feeds

[clanter]

Use the ( (heartgirth x heartgirth) / 330 ) + 50 (or divide by 300 and leave off the 50), and see what you get for weight. That’s going to be more accurate than a tape for most horses.

we have a rock quarry nearby that has a platform scale to weight the trucks… we took our horses there to see just what they did actually weigh as the scale was certified … their scaled weights were within 25 pounds of the taped weight

We paid a scale fee of $1.00 per horse

[JB]

@Angela Freda

Lack of topline or muscling could indicate IR also, which is common in drafts, no?
I’d be looking at the sugar in all his feeds

I would consider PSSM over IR in a case like this.

[Voie_La]

@JB

I would consider PSSM over IR in a case like this.

Hey there, it’s been a while since I’ve last logged in.

I considered the prevalence of PSSM in drafts and how my horse has lost considerable muscle switched his feed to no starches, just alfalfa pellets, beet pulp, and vegetable oil. I’ve slowly worked up to alfalfa 2lbs x2 day, beet pulp 2lbs x2day, and canola oil 1/3 cup x2/day with his supplement:

http://www.horseflowers.com/horsemineral/bioplus.html

Not much of a difference in his condition. I think he is moving well, but I also suppose he needs more effective exercise to build more muscle.

He is at 1400lbs and still looks, as others have pointed out, under muscled.

The thing is, my partner and I have finally found a place closer to his work, so I had no choice but to move him, once again, for the fourth time in a year. This will be his forever home. It’s a nice quaint farm with good hay and lots of space to exercise. I feel bad for my poor horse for dragging him to so many places. I’m wondering if I should get him on an ulcer guarding supplement on top of what I already feed him.

Since we moved, for the past two weeks, I’ve increased his exercise from barely any to light, short stints up hills. I hope to increase his workload to moderate (luging on the hill, hill work).

I’d like to start him on flax oil, I’ve ordered it and it comes in this week.

How much can I feed him each meal with moderate work 5 days a week? I’ve read that 4lbs is the max per feeding. Can I lighten up on the beet pulp and feed more alfalfa instead? Or should I go over the 4lbs seeing as he’s a draft and it’s not starchy?

Also with the oil, I feel like I’m not feeding him enough. Can I increase the vegetable oil and still feed the recommended amount flax?

Thanks for any advice. Sorry for all the questions, just looking for advice. The new vet will be out here soon to give his two cents, but honestly, without the support of knowledgeable horse people, I’m not sure if I’m doing right by my horse.

[Milocalwinnings]

My Belgian gelding gets 4-5 lbs of Alfalfa pellets with each meal in addition to his grain (I don’t know the weight of that… 2 scoops of tribute and a scoop of ration balancer).

[Equisis]

What kind of hay is he getting, and how much? I would consider feeding a ration balancer, since he is just eating forage and beet pulp. I would also look to increase protein before throwing a bunch of oil at him- he needs to build muscle, not fat.

[Voie_La]

@Equisis

What kind of hay is he getting, and how much? I would consider feeding a ration balancer, since he is just eating forage and beet pulp. I would also look to increase protein before throwing a bunch of oil at him- he needs to build muscle, not fat.

I’m not sure the type of hay as of yet, but it’s of good quality (he just moved to his new farm here) and the two Belgians that the farmer has are of excellent body condition living on that hay alone.

I’m not sure how to increase the protein without putting him on something too starchy, as I am concerned about the muscle wasting/IR in drafts.

[Voie_La]

@Milocalwinnings

My Belgian gelding gets 4-5 lbs of Alfalfa pellets with each meal in addition to his grain (I don’t know the weight of that… 2 scoops of tribute and a scoop of ration balancer).

The farmer has two big Belgians at the farm I just moved him to. They are in great condition living just on the hay he feeds them, but they are a lot bigger than my horse. How big is your Belgian?

[Milocalwinnings]

@Voie_La

The farmer has two big Belgians at the farm I just moved him to. They are in great condition living just on the hay he feeds them, but they are a lot bigger than my horse. How big is your Belgian?

He’s 18hh, but is 26 years old and has terrible teeth. He dropped a good bit of weight this winter I am assuming from not being able to consume enough hay, despite being on grain. I added the alfalfa pellets in about a month ago. There’s no way mine could survive on hay alone, even when he had decent teeth. Two years ago he was on 5 lbs of alfalfa pellets, 2 lbs of beet pulp, 2 lbs of Buckeye grow-n-win, and 3 lbs of TC Senior, twice a day and he FINALLY looked good.

Now, coming out of winter he is ribby, so we just increased his Tribute grain and added the alfalfa pellets and cocosoya oil in. He also gets alfalfa hay in his stall but he doesn’t consume a whole lot because he chokes so he gets a very slow feed hay net which reduces what he can actually take in. It’s a double edged sword; ideally I’d give him free choice alfalfa hay.

[DinkyDonk]

Now being in double digits with loss of muscle and a swollen sheath that cleared up on it’s own, I would not hesitate to have your vet pull blood to check for PPID/Cushing’s even if there are no other symptoms.

[kookicat]

I’d stop throwing everything at him. He probably doesn’t need ulcer meds. He doesn’t need two types of oil. He needs good hay, and a hard feed that’s suited to him - I’d go low sugar, high protein but I live in the UK so can’t recommend specific brands/types of feed. I bet if you go on the website of the big brands, they’ll have some sort of helpline to speak to who can advise the best product.

You’re probably also going to need to get him in work that will build up his top line. Lunging, hill work, pole work are all good but it depends on your skill level and what equipment you have to hand.

[SPF10]

Have a Clydesdale mare and based her diet on Dr. Beth Valentines research, a diet used for drafts that are very EPSM prone as a breed. Please look up a book by Dr. Beth Valentine called Draft Horse Owners Manual, and also just google Dr. Beth Valentine. She is one of the leading experts on drafts, you will find a wealth of information. You might also be surprised at how much your horse really does weigh, either use the formula Heartgirth x Heartgirth x length divided by 330, or see if you can find a truck scale somewhere. Also keep in mind there are two Clyde “body types” a work horse type, more stocky, and a carriage type, a little longer and leaner. An excerpt from Dr. Valentine:

“The minimum caloric requirement per 900 to 1,000 pounds of horse is 10,000 to 12,000 calories per day, which goes up if the horse does heavy work. The high-fat EPSM diet provides approximately 16,000 calories per day. We are aiming to obtain 20% to 25% of dietary energy from vegetable oil. Since one cup of vegetable oil contains 2,000 calories, 2 cups of oil per day provides 4,000 calories, which is 20% to 25% of the daily requirement. If you want to reduce total daily calories to prevent excess weight gain, try to cut down on pellets and hay before cutting down on fat. Just don’t decrease daily forage intake below 1% of the horse’s total body weight”