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Questions about sidesaddle on a rainy day

Hunting
#1

It’s pouring out and hunting is canceled. Waaaaaa…

Can sidesaddle riders indulge us with some education? I’ve got a million questions as I’m woefully ignorant - yet interested in learning and possibly riding SS one of these days if I can get my courage up.

  1. What training is required for a horse usually ridden astride? Is it possible or advisable to learn SS on a horse usually ridden and trained astride?

  2. It’s difficult to fully appreciate the riders position in the saddle. What is the position of riders spine? It appears that the rider is twisted in the saddle - though balanced.

  3. How do SS riders prevent or mitigate back and hip pain riding aside? Or is the concern unfounded?

  4. Other than a good wither, what would a beginner SS rider look for in a horse?

  5. How does a SS rider use offside aids when a leg is not present on the off side? I don’t see any of you using a SS cane.

Thanks.

#2
  1. I have yet to find a horse that has been ridden solely aside for its entire life. Even “back in the day,” grooms would alternate hacking a lady’s horse astride and aside, and it was usually a man that started a horse u/s, and they did it astride.

The training that is required for an aside horse is the same as that for an astride horse: an understanding of how to go forward, how to stop, how to respond to seat/leg/hands, how to turn, how to jump, etc. Yes, it is easier to ride aside on a horse that is more responsive to the aids (i.e., I have a WB in the barn that needs L-O-T-S of leg to get him to keep moving, and he is horrible to ride aside as a result), but you can certainly ride aside on either a green horse or a well-schooled horse. A cane or dressage whip may be helpful when first riding aside, so that they learn that even though there is no leg on one side they are still expected to respond the same as when there are 2 legs.

When riding aside, you have MUCH more seat control than astride. Most of your aids are coming from your seat bones and slight weight shifts.

  1. The rider’s spine in the saddle is straight. If you look at an astride rider from behind, and an aside rider, they should look exactly the same, minus a leg on one side. If a rider looks crooked, it is because the saddle does not fit her properly, either because the upright pommel or head is set too far to either side to fit her thigh, or because the saddle is too long or short for her and not allowing her to settle into the “sweet spot” of the seat. If the issue is the result of the upright head being set too far left, then one can add a “queen,” which is padding that is attached to the upright head to bring the thigh into correct contact with it, thereby allowing the hips to settle into the correct spot.

  2. Some people cannot ride aside due to suffering back and/or hip pain. Some cannot ride in what I will term a “normal” sidesaddle, which is where the legs are on the near side, and require an off-side saddle instead (which do exist, but are very rare).

When riding aside, you are using certain muscles that you never use when riding astride, so one must build up their muscles slowly. Just as you only ride a horse new to a sidesaddle for a short amount of time to build up their back (as the saddle is much heavier than an astride saddle), you only want to ride aside for 15-20 minutes at the beginning, and then add time as you get fitter. Doing so will strengthen your muscles. However, if you have a bad lower back, you are most likely going to aggravate it by riding aside.

Also, if you want to jump and you have a back-cracker, you are going to torque your back something fierce. The ideal jumping horse goes slightly long and flat – you don’t want one that goes to the base and then rockets off.

  1. A lady’s horse is supposed to be, well, a lady’s horse. It should be kind, responsive, willing, sure-footed, and comfortable. It must have a good brain, and not be prone to bucking/rearing/bolting, nor be overly spooky. It’s conformation should lend itself to carrying the saddle and rider: good wither, good length of back (so not too short or long), a decent shoulder, good length of neck, and a more solid horse for a heavier lady, while a more petite rider can ride a more dainty horse.

If you plan to jump, you want a horse that goes consistently forward to the fence, and is not prone to stopping. A flat jumper is preferred. A consistently forward moving horse that jumps flat makes it easier to just glide over the fence and keep going.

  1. By seatbones, minute weight shifts, and your left leg. Once your horse gets used to your riding aside, they respond very well to your aids, even sans a leg on one side.

For instance, to pick up the left lead, I just take a light feel on the left rein so the horse gives me its jaw, sit on my left seat bone and ask for the lead while “blocking” the horse with my right seat bone, apply my left heel, and sit up straight. For the right lead, I do the same, just ask with the right seatbone, block with the left, and feel with the right rein.

#3

Well I can speak to this one. I am a SS newbie. I have an 8 year old, nicely trained hack who is, admitedly, pretty darn spicey. He has been know to try to shed me on purpose, or at least take for granted that I can ride a Pegasus jump. If his saddle doesn’t feel right, he will attempt to adjust it himself.

Last winter, I bought a side saddle, longed him in it for 5-10 minutes, and hopped on. Since I’m doing this alone, I only got a half dozen rides or so all year, but my horse adapted to the saddle and my position like it was no big deal and diligently took care of me and played along even though I could see on his face he thought it was pure foolishness.

I could tell he noticed the balance strap the first time I longed him, but got used to it immediately as part of the equipment. I did desensitise him to me swinging my leg over his head and me jumping off awkwardly from a sideways position prior to trying the side saddle.

I haven’t gotten as far as cantering, but I don’t anticipate leads being an issue as he cues from reins and seat, not heels.

As far as choosing a horse, I’d find one not too wide and not too round. Mine is wide and round, and I’m finding the vintage saddles are more often made for narrower, more slab sided horses. :sadsmile: Which makes saddle shopping more challenging. I currently have mine out on consignment and am saving the thousands of dollars difference that the one that might fit will cost me.

#4

Welcome to the world of sidesaddle. You are finding what we all have found in searching for the ideal sidesaddle. The original old name sidesaddles were designed for the English Thoroughbreds. It is hard to find the ones to fit our modern horses. But they are out there.
I know several ladies who took their sidesaddles with them to find a horse to fit the saddle.
Most any horse that has been thoroughly trained and has a good nature will go sidesaddle. I have known horses that prefered sidesaddles over atride saddles.
I second Devon’s post above. She has good experience to share.
I have made off side sidesaddles in the past for those who have othopedic problems. I have a right hip socket that is very touchy and at times downright painful. I can not ride astride for very long at a time without it letting me know it does not appreciate what I am doing.
I have a reversable English sidesaddle that has to be redone. Someday I may get it done for myself to ride.
Many of our ancestors have ridden aside both Western and English. Many of our Grandmothers rode aside and thought nothing of it. It was the way ladies rode. But they had horses that were “Lady broke”. Most were 14:2 and gentle natured. I restored a sidesaddle for a lady recently that fits her Mor-Ab like it was made for her. She is a small mare and typical of what they would have chosen for a lady’s horse.
Another friend has an OTTB that her “old name” sidesaddle fits perfect. He is a calm and easy going horse so he does well under sidesaddle. Even her 11 year old daughter rides him aside.
I have only had one horse decide he wanted no part of sidesaddle. So I didn’t push it with him. No point making him even more unhappy.
You need to find a mentor who has lots of experience in sidesaddle to help you get started.
You can get someone to take videos of you riding and that way you can see what you are doing wrong. Or right.
There are saddles out there that do twist you in the saddle. Stay clear of them. You do not want to sit sideways or twisted at the waist. You should sit just like an astride rider but with the right leg over the saddle and on the left.
It is an adventure to be sure.
Have a great time. Wish you the best in your endeavor.
Kind regards, sadlmakr

#5

[QUOTE=sadlmakr;6006239]
I know several ladies who took their sidesaddles with them to find a horse to fit the saddle. [/QUOTE]

Seems highly sensible. These days I can buy a decent riding horse for about half of what I am planning on spending for a side saddle.

#6

“These days I can buy a decent riding horse for about half of what I am planning on spending for a side saddle”.

Smart Alex, you are not alone. I know several ladies with horses they picked up for less than half what they paid for their Old Name Sidesaddle. Or even less. But the horses seem to know they were saved from a bad end.
But they are great sidesaddle horses. Even one of them is a PMU half draft and a great sidesaddle horse.
They seem to know when their owner is all dressed up and their tack is al polished and pretty that they really strut their stuff.
One little Arabian mare likes her sidesaddle so much that when her owner took off the sidesaddle after a sidesaddle class, and brought out the Western stock saddle she pinned her ears and backed away from the Western saddle.
Her owner did saddle her in the Western but all through the Western Pleasure class the mare had her ears pinned and her head down and nostrils wrinkled. Not a happy horse. Needless to say they didn’t place in the Western Pleasure class. She likes the sidesaddle, that is all there is about it.
When you do find the right sidesaddle that fits the right horse it is great fun.
Have a wonderful time riding aside.
Regards, sadlmakr

#7

No need to get your courage up to try, side saddle is remarkably secure! Though you certainly would want your first experience to a pleasant one so I wouldn’t slap a side saddle on ol’ Tornado for a first ride.

I’ve only ridden aside a few times, on other peoples horses (cross ridden horses) as my saddles fit me but not my own horses.:lol: I can’t share much advice but I can share a bit.

I use a dressage whip offside and I use it as if it were my offside leg. When I nudge with my heel to ask for an up transition, I use my whip at the same time in the same place on the offside. Its really mentally challenging to coordinate your hand to your leg :lol: Voice trained horse helps a lot.

Saddle fit is pretty critical, you and the horse. Too small and you’ll feel like a seal perched on a ball. Too large and you’ll never learn how to sit properly, you’ll be sliding back and reaching. You want a saddle that is wide enough for your posterior too, else you’ll get the very uncomfortable feeling that you’re ‘spilling over the sides’.

Older saddles are (generally) made better, but they were made for petite little women on TB type horses so fitting todays modern horse and rider is a tad challenging. Not to forget stirrup size (a size 5 shoe size was common apparently at one point in history).

Not impossible though, the big UK brands, C&W, Whippy (and M&M?) have made a fair share of larger seat, wider tree saddles. Often the really wide ones came on a wykham pad rather than flocked panels, this way the padding could be added or removed as needed to fit the horse (within reason). My C&W is a MW tree, 13" seat and I forget the length, but it fits me perfectly and I am neither small nor svelte. :lol:

Do not get a crappy side saddle. It won’t feel nice to you or your horse, has the very real potential to do you both harm, and you’ll hate it and then be stuck with it for ever and ever amen.

A good wither is a good thing on a side saddle mount, roly poly types are hard enough in a cross saddle, though there is no such thing as impossible. You also want a horse with a average to slightly longer back if possible, but a strong couple is practically a must for any serious riding.

I find that riding aside aleviates back and hip pain, but thats me.

You do want a horse that isn’t overly reactive about straps around their midsection, the balance girth can be a very new sensation. When in doubt longe.

You never ever ever mount from the ground or use the stirrup in mounting. A lady generally has a groom to lift her to the saddle, but I use a block (precariously balanced :lol:) on top of another mounting block while a friend holds the horse. Short horses are a bonus in side saddle. Dismounting is as easy as unhooking a leg and sliding down.

I personally lift my leg clear over the horse and side astride on the saddle, aligning my spine and putting my butt bones where they need to be, making sure my shoulders are square and the saddle hasn’t shifted, then I bring my offside leg up and over the horse’s neck and put it into position.

Side saddle shouldn’t hurt or feel uncomfortable. If your right leg is pinched or jabbed by the pommel, then use a queen to help even things out. If you feel twisted, or like you’re sliding, or if something hurts, then something isn’t right. Its pretty amazing how natural side saddle feels when the saddle is a reasonably good fit for horse and rider.

Marti is a really nice person and her site has lots of reasonably priced goodies to drool over http://hundredoaksinc.com/home

These people are really nice and there is a yahoo group that is really helpful http://www.sidesaddle.com/

more eye candy: http://www.sidesaddle.com/store/saddles/saddles.html

And, this is the book that got me hooked on the idea of side saddle to begin with: http://www.sidesaddle.com/reference_pages/The%20Horsewoman,%20by%20Alice%20M_%20Hayes.htm

I read the entire thing every once in a while when I’m in a sorry mood, it always pumps me back up again. A real copy of the book is on my list of things to find and hoard in life. Its one of my favorite horsey books of all time ever.

#8

[QUOTE=buck22;6007343]
A lady generally has a groom to lift her to the saddle. Short horses are a bonus in side saddle.[/QUOTE]

I never thought of that, but I just got an image of my husband trying to place me gracefully on top of 16.3 hh plus saddle and had to giggle.

[QUOTE=buck22;6007343] And, this is the book that got me hooked on the idea of side saddle to begin with: http://www.sidesaddle.com/reference_pages/The%20Horsewoman,%20by%20Alice%20M_%20Hayes.htm

I read the entire thing every once in a while when I’m in a sorry mood, it always pumps me back up again. A real copy of the book is on my list of things to find and hoard in life. Its one of my favorite horsey books of all time ever.[/QUOTE]

That’s a really good one, but Ladies on Horseback is my favorite. Her story of her runaway at the drag hunt that landed in the farmyard and had to be led out through the kitchen had me howling.

#9

SmartAlex, I love that link, I’ll have to download it at home for later reading. In the first few pages we see a woman who writes in the time and style of a period when women took to their beds with the vapors, but reading a little longer reveals the steel and humor beneath the whalebone :wink:

#10

See this answered in your quote

[QUOTE=JSwan;6005788]
It’s pouring out and hunting is canceled. Waaaaaa…

Can sidesaddle riders indulge us with some education? I’ve got a million questions as I’m woefully ignorant - yet interested in learning and possibly riding SS one of these days if I can get my courage up.

  1. What training is required for a horse usually ridden astride? Is it possible or advisable to learn SS on a horse usually ridden and trained astride?

Like the others said just having a nice astride horse will make a nice aside horse. One of the things I did with my mare was turn her in tight circles each direction so she could feel that the balance strap was there.

  1. It’s difficult to fully appreciate the riders position in the saddle. What is the position of riders spine? It appears that the rider is twisted in the saddle - though balanced.

When searching for a sidesaddle, its great to go to a clinic or someone like Devon that have multiple saddles to try both on the horse for fit and for you. If you do not have a properly fitted saddle it puts your position all sorts out of whack and you end up fighting the ride the whole time and not enjoying it. Also get someone who is very good at doing a fitting. When properly fitting the ride is very comfortable and secure.

  1. How do SS riders prevent or mitigate back and hip pain riding aside? Or is the concern unfounded?

I have two bulging disks between L4/L5 and L5/S1. When my back is sore I do seem to have trouble opening up my hips and pelvis to allow for my body to flow with the movement. It really makes for a rough bouncy ride at the trot. :lol: When I am limber it doesn’t hurt at all.

5.) How does a SS rider use offside aids when a leg is not present on the off side? I don’t see any of you using a SS cane.
Having a horse that goes off your seat bones is very nice. But you can use a whip or cane to begin training with until they understand what you are asking for with your seat bones.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]

#11

[QUOTE=SmartAlex;6007959]

That’s a really good one, but Ladies on Horseback is my favorite. Her story of her runaway at the drag hunt that landed in the farmyard and had to be led out through the kitchen had me howling.[/QUOTE]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: I think I would’ve soiled myself if I were in the authors position.

#12

You guys are awesome. I opened up Covertside and there was a terrific article on SS riding - made me even more wistful.

My main concern is my back. I have been under the impression that the rider was somehow twisted in the saddle. The discs (lack of them) doesn’t bother me. The facet joints do - if I do a lot of twisting. If the rider’s spine is straight (generally) there may not be a problem.

SSrider isn’t far from me and I do have two horses with fine withers. One is a gentle soul and the other has a bit of temper - but both great field hunters. I feel this huge gap in my education and ss riding is on my bucket list.

Thanks again.

#13

I have low back pain also. I can ride my Western sidesaddle most of the time with no pain or aching after the ride. The fibromyalgia I have had for the last 30 years has limited my activities in riding aside. I have had some good days and love the chance to ride with no after-effects. Each of us is different so what lets me ride aside might not let you do so. You will have to make sure the saddle you get does not twist you. It has to be one that will hold you squarely on the horse as an astride rider but also so you can put the right leg over the horse to the left without causing you any discomfort.
Shop carefully to get just the right sidesaddle.
There are some very good books about sidesaddle riding that might help you in your search for the one right sidesaddle. Sidesaddle by Doreen Houblon is a great one. "Riding and Driving for Women " is another good one.
Get acquainted with other sidesaddlers. There are some great Sidesaddle riders there on the East Coast. You will enjoy it and you will not hurt.
Kind regards, sadlmakr

#14

Waaay back in the spring/summer of my senior year in HS I showed my gelding side saddle. I was not going to be able to show him all season due to going away to college that fall so I decided to show him sidesaddle and just have fun on our local circuit.

The gelding was bombproof, had decent withers and carried himself like an equitation horse- more upright neck than a hunter. One thing she had me do was ride him astride with a large sheet or beach towell on my left side. She had me go through all gaits and jump to proof him on fabric moving on that side. Ditto the comment about getting the horse use to the second girth running underneath them.

The saddle I borrowed was a Whimpy and trust me, with the flying horn you are nice and secure. I don’t recall having any problem jumping (only 2’ high jumps) and staying in position.

I used a dressage whip on the right side for training then when showing went without anything- for flat classes it wasn’t an issue.

JSwan, I hope you get a chance to try riding sidesaddle! It’s been 35 years for me since that summer and maybe some time soon I’ll try it again. :slight_smile:

#15

The ladies hunter classes here in Ireland are usually full of 17 handers. My poor husband has had to give me the proper side-saddle leg up on to many big ones. :slight_smile:

I’ve had the use of a lovely Mayhew, a few Champion and Wiltons and now I own a super Owen which fits my middleweight 16.3hh perfectly.

Otherwise, I can’t really add to the advise given above. Side-saddle is a wonderful way of riding and so elegant, but when done in an ill fitting saddle or on an unsuitable horse it can be WAY more uncomfortable than riding astride, so make sure to try lots of saddles and get lots of instruction and assistance!

#16

One of my trail buddies here in Utah has been riding aside exclusively for 15 or more years, due to a fused hip as a result of serious injuries in a car accident. But for her western sidesaddle, she wouldn’t be able to ride at all. Rides a fox trotter. And of course she doesn’t ask doctors’ opinions (except that, because of potential for detached retina issues, result of same accident, she doesn’t do remote back country camping).

She would, owing to a lifetime of riding, have no trouble staying first flight with any pack. Mind you she doesn’t jump anymore but some of the mountains we negotiate are way hairier than a 3’6" line fence.

#17

napoles, how does one give a proper side-saddle leg up?

#18

I’m going to give a try after the season ends, folks. It’s just something I’ve always wanted to learn, and I ain’t gettin’ any younger so what am I waiting for?

I really appreciate all of the information and advice. I hope it works out for me as I would dearly love to hunt SS, at least on occasion.

Thanks again.

#19

Start reading from page 125 here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=NtY8AAAAYAAJ&dq=side-saddle&pg=PA125#v=onepage&q=side-saddle&f=false

But basically, the lady will stand to the left of the saddle, facing forward, and will bend her left knee and place her left foot in a man’s hand. She will grasp the upright head in the right hand, then spring up on her right foot while the man lifts her up by means of her left foot. The lady has to straighten her left leg as she is going up, as well as turning to the left, whereby she can then settle on the seat. She will then place her right leg over the upper pommel and her left leg under the leaping head. The man will then place her foot in the stirrup, and help her adjust her toe elastic and straighten her apron.

It takes some practice to do correctly, not to mention requiring a man strong enough to lift you. :wink:

#20

thank you for the book tip SmartAlex!

here, the first few seconds of this vid shows a lady being helped up
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=79781

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