Questions about treeless

[Draftmare]

I figured I would post under the endurance section as treeless saddles seem to be more popular with this group.

After trying an endless array of treed saddles without finding a really good fit, I have been thinking about going treeless. I have tried some english treeless saddles in the past and didn’t really care for them, but I am hoping that maybe I will like western treeless saddles better…

I am looking for something that looks like a traditional western saddle, but after reading some less than savory reviews of the Circle Y Just B Natural saddles I almost scrapped the idea of going treeless altogether. And then I came across a Bob Marshall in my price range in really good shape. I got to try one this past weekend and actually liked it better than I thought I would. Anybody have any input on this brand?

I do still have a couple of questions though…

First, is posting the trot in a treeless saddle going to be super hard, or cause my horse back pain?

I have read that treeless saddles are best for people who don’t “just sit there” like people that do endurance and are standing for most of the ride. Being that I show western dressage, I do a lot of “just sitting there” I guess you could call it. I am engaged and like to think of myself as a balanced rider, but beyond posting the trot when we first warm up, I am sitting during all three gaits. Is this going to be an issue?

And then there is the issue of weight. Not very many people seem keen on nailing down how much is too much. Numbers are all over the place depending upon where I look. Some people say 150 pounds is the upper limit, some say 200 pounds, some say it doesn’t matter as long as you have a good pad and aren’t sitting like a sack of bricks on the horse’s back. At 220 do I need to be worried?

Also, I am wondering what the resale on these saddles is. If I get the Bob Marshall (it is on Facebook, no returns) and don’t like it, am I going to be stuck with it for a looong time waiting for it to resell?

Finally, does anybody have any input on saddle pads? I was thinking of doing either the 5 Star treeless pads, or I just got to try a CSI and liked it, which has a pad they recommend for treeless as well.

[tabula_rashah]

I love, love, love my treeless saddles but like treed saddles they have to be fit to your horse. You do have a little more leeway as you do change much more with a treeless by changing pads/ pad set up than you can with a treed. I am over 200 lbs and have been successfully competing my mare in CTR and LD’s in a treeless saddles for 4 years with nothing less than an A score ever on her back (just did one this past weekend actually). BUT… I don’t think it’s what I’d want for Western dressage. I am going on the assumption that you are not posting, going to be doing a lot of lateral work, etc (correct me if I am wrong).

As for the Bob Marshall, a lot of people love them. I’ve only sat in the endurance one and I didn’t like it at all compared to the others I’ve used (Barefoot, Freeform, Ghost)- it felt like a padded board folded over the horse.

If you do decide to go treeless, definitely go with a pad specifically for treeless. They are not designed to work with regular pads

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8907207]
I love, love, love my treeless saddles but like treed saddles they have to be fit to your horse. You do have a little more leeway as you do change much more with a treeless by changing pads/ pad set up than you can with a treed. I am over 200 lbs and have been successfully competing my mare in CTR and LD’s in a treeless saddles for 4 years with nothing less than an A score ever on her back (just did one this past weekend actually). BUT… I don’t think it’s what I’d want for Western dressage. I am going on the assumption that you are not posting, going to be doing a lot of lateral work, etc (correct me if I am wrong).

As for the Bob Marshall, a lot of people love them. I’ve only sat in the endurance one and I didn’t like it at all compared to the others I’ve used (Barefoot, Freeform, Ghost)- it felt like a padded board folded over the horse.

If you do decide to go treeless, definitely go with a pad specifically for treeless. They are not designed to work with regular pads[/QUOTE]

I usually post the trot to warm up, but spend the rest of my time while schooling sitting. I usually only school for an hour at a time, but I am still concerned that some of the accounts I have read recommend treeless more for riders that actively off of their horse’s backs more than I would be.

CSI and 5 Star both make a treeless pad. Those would be my first choices for pads as they could both be hidden under a Mayatex pad for showing.

[Guilherme]

The treeless saddle is a defective design in that it does not effectively distribute weight on the horse’s back. The claim is made that this defect is corrected by a “padding system” but I wonder. In any event why create a product that, from the get-go, needs another product to make it work?

My observations are not popular with some but the fact that the industry is now accepting that there are limits to the basic design (and discussing just where to draw the line) validates my criticism.

It’s your money, your horse’s back, and your choice on saddles. I’d go custom before I’d even think about “treeless.” As with all things, YMMV.

Good luck in whatever choice you make.

G.

[Heart_s_Journey]

I have a Bob Marshall Circle Y that I bought in 1996 , have used it extensively, and use the Skito pads with the inserts. My current horse has been ridden in it for the past 9 years, no back issues, and no white hairs or scaring. He moves out at a brisk walk, and we’ve done plenty of 25+ rides in it. I also have a barefoot treeless, but love the BM so much I rarely use it.

[CFFarm]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…I’ve seen more back and wither problems with treed saddles than with treeless over the years. I don’t recommend them for beginning riders who don’t have an independent seat. I’ve used treeless for everything from classic dressage to trail riding. JMHO

[walkinthewalk]

IMHO, too many people ride treeless saddles that have lousy balance to begin with and that negatively affects the horse.

People with excellent/honest balance ( as opposed to perceived) do well in quality treeless saddles, of which there are only three brands to my knowledge.

The OP could Google "custom Draft Horse saddles and peruse the websites of folks who specialize in making saddles for Draft-type horses:)

[cloudy18]

I love my Bob Marshall. I did get a treed saddle for my current mare, as the BM is just too roll-y on her, and she’s too green. I rode trail and took lessons in my BM for years on my gelding with no problems. I weigh 130 so I can’t help you out with the weight questions, but I do have a friend that rides treeless frequently and I’m guessing he is around 200 lbs. I always used a Skito pad with mine.

Be aware that the BMs do have a solid piece under the pommel that can a problem on wide horses. I used mine on our draft cross with no problems, but I didn’t ride her frequently. You also will sit wide, which can cause issues for some people.

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=walkinthewalk;8908979]
IMHO, too many people ride treeless saddles that have lousy balance to begin with and that negatively affects the horse.

People with excellent/honest balance ( as opposed to perceived) do well in quality treeless saddles, of which there are only three brands to my knowledge.

The OP could Google "custom Draft Horse saddles and peruse the websites of folks who specialize in making saddles for Draft-type horses:)[/QUOTE]

She actually isn’t wide enough for a draft horse saddle. She only needs a 7 inch gullet, just a combination of enough flair and bar spread at the front to accomidate her big shoulders.

[cloudy18]

Have you tried a Haflinger saddle? A friend got one for his big Canadian.

[Draftmare]

I haven’t tried a Halflinger saddle. I haven’t been very impressed with the quality of the brands that offer a Halflinger saddle.

[cloudy18]

I don’t think treeless is out of the question for you, but I do know it hasn’t worked for my friend that I mentioned above, on his Canadian. He didn’t have issues with his QH. He was using a Black Forest though, and I believe she was getting sore near her withers. If you can try one out for awhile, that would be your best bet.

I did sit in mine a lot, because I trail ride at the walk a lot. I had no issues with it either time I went to SD, and those were some longer rides. I didn’t find it difficult to post in. I did send pictures of my gelding to Skito and they made a set of shims for his shoulders. It was never unstable on him. I also used it occasionally on our draft cross and while I felt like I was on a propane tank, it didn’t feel unstable. It feels that way on my current mare, but treed saddles do somewhat as well.

[Draftmare]

Well, after trying yet another treed saddle that ended up not working… I am revisiting looking at a Bob Marshall. Sounds like Skito can custom make a saddle pad for us, but I do wonder how much the foam “crushes” down? Do these pads work well under treed saddles as well as treeless?

[DistanceHorse]

Skito makes pads for treeless saddles (the foam loads in the front) - and pads for treed saddles (the foam loads along the top). Skito will invest a lot of time to build a pad that suits you and your horse.

The Bob Marshall Sport Saddle is quite popular at endurance rides. I have a friend that has ridden thousands of miles in them while padding with a skito. There are many other brands too.

And although I generally agree with Guilherme on many topics, I personally have logged thousands of treeless competition miles in my treeless saddle including 100 mile rides. I generally ride as a heavyweight or middleweight in my endurance or CTR division and I have not had white hairs or a sore back develop. Integral to treeless saddle fitting is the pad (or pads) and this provides the channeling for the spine.

I personally use a treeless Saddle that is no longer in production but it is much like the Barefoot or Black Forest Saddle brands. I use a stock Skito pad next to my horse’s skin with 3/4 inch firm foam inserts and a Supracor endurance pad on top of that. That’s what works for me, my weight and my slightly built horse. When I am riding one of my more ‘tankish’ horses I forego the Supracor and only use the Skito.

There are many options for the Skito inserts if the foam is compressing too much. Or too little. There are also many other brands of treeless pads out there.

[Draftmare]

So a question specifically about Bob Marshall. I have read in a few places that they aren’t great for wide horses. But how wide are we talking about? My mare typically only needs a 7 to 7.5 inch tree, it is the amount of flare that we keep seeming to run into problems with. I almost pulled the trigger on a Bob Marshall Renegade, but now am having second thoughts. I am also looking at the Circle Y Cloud Peak or the Circle Y JJ which both offer a wide gullet.

[DistanceHorse]

I have a friend that rides her draft crosses in the Bob Marshall Sports Saddle-the hornless version is commonly used in endurance…that is what I am familiar with. She is a HW rider and her horses always have good backs. Do you live near any endurance rides? Perhaps someone would let you try one out. If you end up buying the endurance model, they generally hold their value quite well…not sure about the horned versions.

[Bogie]

I have a ghost treeless saddle that has a gullet. I also bought the ghost pad. I had my saddle fitter look at it and he was happy with the set up although he’s not a huge fan of treeless saddles.

Now, it’s not the only saddle I ride in (my other saddles have trees) but I find it very comfortable and have done many long hacks in it. My horses seem happy in it too.

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=Bogie;8918458]
I have a ghost treeless saddle that has a gullet. I also bought the ghost pad. I had my saddle fitter look at it and he was happy with the set up although he’s not a huge fan of treeless saddles.

Now, it’s not the only saddle I ride in (my other saddles have trees) but I find it very comfortable and have done many long hacks in it. My horses seem happy in it too.[/QUOTE]

I never considered a ghost before because they are so strange looking, but now it looks like they do offer a western version. I may have to do some research.

[tabula_rashah]

[QUOTE=Draftmare;8918500]
I never considered a ghost before because they are so strange looking, but now it looks like they do offer a western version. I may have to do some research.[/QUOTE]

I have a Ghost also. I really, really like the position it puts you in and the panels are adjustable so you can make it as wide or narrow as you want.

[Draftmare]

Looks like the weight limit on the ghost is 170, so that won’t work for me.