Questions on Billet systems

I’ve been looking to purchase a dressage saddle for my 4 y/o gelding. Him and I are both difficult to fit, and I’m looking into the Thornhills and a few other saddles with larger seat/longer flap options for me and wider widths for him.

However, a lot of the saddles I’m looking at have a V-billet system. I’ve never ridden in a V-billet, but I have ridden in a couple of Point Billet saddles and disliked them (I felt tipped forward even in one which was pro-fitted), and I also heard that Point Billets have been shown to be damaging to some horse’s backs.

How is the V-Billet system different on a practical level? How does it affect fit? Does it have the same pitfalls as the Point Billet?

I think that the point billet refers to the fact that the first billet runs through the knee-roll area and attaches to a more forward area on the tree. THis is good to prevent the saddle from moving forward. My horse needs a point billet otherwise the saddle creeps forward. However, properly fitted point-billet saddle should make you feel even, not tipped forward.

The V-billet, I believe, refers to the second billet. Some saddles have a fixed V - meaning, it is sewn like that, and the idea is that the billet attaches to the middle and back of the tree and are sewn together in a V shape where the billet attaches. But most V-billets these days have an ‘adjustable’ V-billet. This is where the billets attache to the middle and end of the saddle and come together in a “V” shape, but the V is adjustable by a buckle-type thing. On other saddles, there is a “running buckle”, so the billets that attach to the tree freely run though the top of a ring and the billet attaches at the bottom. Here, the V-billet naturally adjusts to the horse because it is free-running. The nice part of the v-billet system is that it can stabilize the back of the saddle.

I like the v-billet system. My horse’s greatest nightmare is the billeting system that comes with some of the Passier saddles. They have 2 billets that drop directly from the middle of the tree. On my horse, this saddle would creep forward and the back would come up and move around. Of course, this is on MY HORSE. On other horses I ride, this system is perfect for them. SO it really depends on your horse and his build.

Good luck! Saddle fitting is a nightmare!!!:slight_smile:

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification.

This is my boy. Does anyone know what kind of billet system might be best for him or can give me fitting advice in general?

http://i362.photobucket.com/albums/oo61/horses4life_photos/Horses053-2.jpg?t=1224225654

Ditto, I need point billets and the center billeting system (which is what was on my Duett) really doesn’t work for super round mutton withered horses :slight_smile:

No experience with v-billets here.

Your guy is built a lot like mine, Avishay. I think a point billet will be helpful. Do you ever find your saddles slipping forward?

Ambrey - no, I haven’t had any problems with saddles slipping forward. But as I mentioned, I’m riding in a CC right now and it may be different with a dressage saddle.

I’d really like to take a few saddles on test rides (that would make finding out what girthing system I need SO much easier!), but none of the local tack stores and consignment shops have anything in my size; I’m 6’1" and I need an 18.5" or 19" - and online stores only offer demos in 17" or 18" sizes. So while I could get a feel for how a saddle fits my horse, I’m not going to be able to tell if I like a saddle if it’s too small for me.

It’s all very frustrating. I just want to get the right saddle so I can bring my young horse along and start competing! :slight_smile:

I had my old Passier converted to a point and v-billeting system. I couldn’t keep the saddle from moving forward beforehand and now it never moves. The v is fixed and because it is not made of leather it ends up giving me a lot more feel than before. I can see having to shorten the portion that attaches to the backside of the saddle at some point but I’ve not had any fit problems for three years since it was changed. Thumbs up from me!

Wow, I honestly didn’t realize that forward slippage was such a problem! Good to know.

I had my old Passier converted to a point and v-billeting system.

Who did the conversion, Passier? Gee, I have a Stubben that I’d like to have converted.

I don’t know how common the problem of saddles moving forward is, but I have it. It often occurs when a horse’s girth grove is very forward; right behind the elbow. Conformation (low withers), etc. also plays a role.

Forward girth groove and no withers= saddle right over the shoulder :frowning: The point/vee billet and custom fitted saddle have virtually eliminated forward slippage for us.

Point billets are fine they don’t do harm if the saddle is properly placed and the billets are properly adjusted.

IMO if a point billet is used a V billet MUST be used for the rear. Otherwise too much pressure on the saddle via the girth is to the front 1/3 of the saddle. The v billet spreads the tension fro the girth back billet onto the center and back 1/3 of the saddle. That combined with a center OR point billet

V billets allow more tension to be put on the back (Or even pressure) this can help with saddles that shift side to side in the back, saddles with a bit of excessive movement in the back (Not too much movement but a bit more then ideal). Also nice becuase you can put more pressure on the back 2/3 when combined with a point billet allowing the point billet to be USED but not ‘clamped down’ tight

ooh as to who to have do it. Quite a few master saddlers in North america- it’s not a difficult conversion (Requires dropping the panel, rewebbing the saddle) and ya get new billets out of it too :slight_smile: any saddler who does repairs on saddles should be able to do the conversion for you

Find yourself a Master Saddler that can fit your horse and you!!!
You can still have saddle fit issues without the saddle slipping forward or backward.
Your horse may not be the type for a V-billet.
Get a master saddler to fit you and your horse!!! Be open minded to other saddle brands.

master saddlers are not all saddle fitters… just a point

Try Trumbull Mountain

They usually have a good selection of new, used, and demo saddles available in wide tree sizes and large seats as well. They have an excellent trial policy. Good luck!

www.trumbullmtn.com

the v-billet system in the adjustable gullet Bates and Wintec saddles is also adjustable, with velcro under the flap. In fact I sent one back to the store because it was so poorly adjusted that it sat at an angle to one side of the horse’s spine. At the time I didn’t realize the v was adjustable, and someone had racked up the velcro on one side and not the other. Quick fix when you know what you’re doing. Mystified the saddle store and me until the wintec rep came out and showed them what was wrong, but by then I had bought a Windsor Elite, which also has a point billet and fixed v system. The point billet will only do harm when the saddle otherwise doesn’t fit or when the saddle is placed too far forward on the horse. One wants a dressage saddle as far forward as possible, but without impinging on the shoulder movement while working. You can really only check this while riding in the saddle- in extended trot, the shoulder blade should not contact the point.

If your Passier PS-Baum tree rocked up in back, the tree panel shapes probably don’t fit your horse and you will need a different tree. If your saddle needs the point billet to keep it from sliding forward, possibly the saddle is too narrow for the horse. Some saddles will tip up when they are too narrow, but on certain horses they slide forward, away from the fattest part of the horse. Saddle fit is an art!

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;3591311]
Who did the conversion, Passier? Gee, I have a Stubben that I’d like to have converted.

I don’t know how common the problem of saddles moving forward is, but I have it. It often occurs when a horse’s girth grove is very forward; right behind the elbow. Conformation (low withers), etc. also plays a role.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the slow reply. :no:

Lordy! Forward girth grove + well sprung ribs + smooth muscled shoulder also = saddle right over a medium wither. :slight_smile:

I had my PS Balm converted by Kevin Lote @ Regal Saddles. He is located in Victoria, B.C.

Do we have the same horse?

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x182/estarianne/smokeyfront.jpg
(his ribcage is actually shaped like that!)
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x182/estarianne/2007.09-16.jpg