Questions on Club Foot - Update with X-Rays - Update *Hoof pictures!

[DiamondJubilee]

Totally agree with you @Bonnie2. Looking at his foot doesn’t look too bad and he’s sound and moves well, but when I saw the Xrays I though yikes! I’m not expert on Xrays by any means, but the difference from the right to the left was alarming to me. Now the surgeon did say it wasn’t too bad but they did say the surgery would correct it almost right away and its a common surgery, made me feel a lot better.

I also did forget to add I did speak with a feed rep who passed it on to a nutritionist to ensure I was feeding him the recommended amounts, and sent her some pictures. She did say the amount of grain and type of grain I was feeding to him was ok but to back off on the Omenity that I was adding as he was getting too much vitamins. So I did drop that one right away (I was only feeding half the recommended amount of Omenity though). So I was glad to hear that.

[shoer76]

@GoodTimes -

Thicker cannon bone should show up on the Myerscough College website.

Effects on the limb above fetlock is Tracy Turner. It basically says, if you wedge a foot there will be no change in joint angle above the fetlock.

That doesn’t mean you can’t do things which would affect the horses posture which would obviously affect the tissues above.

[shoer76]

I’m trying to understand, so the Farrier comes out sees a high angle, so trims heel off to lower the angle. Next month the Farrier returns and sees a high angle again with a dished short toe and trims heel to lower the angle. So, you take an x-ray to confirm the short toe and high angle. And the vet recommends trimming at shorter intervals. The toe is already short so you can’t trim toe. So, trim more heel at shorter intervals. If you don’t know anything about anything, does this make any sense? I believe that’s the definition of insanity.

From experience, I’d say your horse is going to maintain around a 60-degree dorsal hoof angle for his life. Why do you have a problem with that angle?

The x-rays show a short, dished toe. Why has nobody considered trimming/shoeing to let the toe grow out and see how the soundness of your horse is?

Also, put a couple of wedge pads under the toe. If the heels touch the ground (which they will ) Then tell me how the check ligament has anything to do with this situation.

[DiamondJubilee]

From my very limited understanding, and I haven’t spoke personally with the hospital and surgeon yet as they are closed until next week (just my vet has been able to get a hold of them so is relaying as much info to me as possible). They are saying that the club foot is genetic (not caused by trims) and the leg bones are growing quicker than the tendons, so it it causing the club foot (please correct me if I’m wrong, but that is my understanding). So a trim/shoes will not solve this alone as the tendon needs to grow or stretch down. If it is left to trims and shoeing alone, the surgeon said it could help but it will take months to find out. Then he will be closer to 2 years old and growing has slowed down and if say he didn’t improve with shoes and trimming, the surgery will not be as successful as he ages. So we could be SOL. I have an idea of what you are saying and its not that I don’t think it may work (trust me I would love to say corrective shoeing/trimming would work 100%, I’m just not willing to risk it right now when things are a little time sensitive).

@shoer76 - have you done special shoes and trims to a club foot horse and had it correct itself without any other intervention? I’m truly curious as I haven’t heard anyone say that they did this with success (or non success) as everyone I personally know did have the surgery done, and I know of only 1 who didn’t (yearling at my sisters barn) and it did not turn out well for him and he is 100% lame and was never able to do anything since his hoof went right over after a few years. You may have had a case like this that turned out really well, and I truly would love to hear it and you can PM me if you don’t want to make it public.

He is young and the surgery has been shown to be not as invasive as it sounds with a great recovery and almost instant change to the hoof. Yes, the hooves will probably always be different sizes (as many horses are anyway) but that’s not a worry to me at all. But the possibility of him starting to “roll” over on that hoof with a shoe and not having the surgery done really doesn’t settle well with me - as this happened to a horse in my sisters barn. They kept saying it will get better and correct itself with trims and massage, and that didn’t happen sadly.

I have reached out to some people on FB that have had this surgery done on their yearlings and they went on to have great careers, say that recovery was quick and they all recommended me doing it. Its great to hear this from impartial horse people that have personally gone through it.

I don’t want to do surgery if I don’t have to of course, but to me, it seems like the best option from speaking with others and speaking to my vet. The surgeons farrier will also be putting a special shoe on him, but I’m not sure if it will be when he’s at the hospital there, or if he will do him at my farm just before I drop him off for surgery. This I will ask about and find out next week when the surgeon calls me. Its a very tough choice for me and it sounds like it will be the best outcome for my boy.

[dynamite0319]

I thought more actual anecdotal experience might help you make a decision. I bought my mare when she was 3 months old, brought her home at 6 months. Used the same farrier that the breeder had used for a bit and we tried the trim-to-correct-clubbiness. It’s been 10 years so I don’t recall exactly how frequently, but she was trimmed like every 4 weeks for a few months and it made no difference. Switched farriers (for myriad reasons) and that farrier strongly recommended the check ligament surgery. Had the filly seen by Dr. Hand at ESMS (I’m in Texas, near Weatherford). He advised a rigorous trimming cycle for a couple months then a recheck. When my filly was just about to turn 2 we did the check ligament desmotomy. Coco is now 11 and has been showing in the hunters since she was 5. Granted we don’t show hard or jump very high (because of me, not her), but she’s been sound the entire time she’s been under saddle.

[DiamondJubilee]

Thank you for your story @dynamite0319. I do appreciate you writing it and letting me know. I’m not usually the on the fence type of person as I tend to make my decisions hard and fast, but this one really had me thinking both ways. But hearing your story helps me think my decision with the surgery is the best idea right now. I’m so glad it was a success and she’s doing so well now!

[JB]

@DiamondJubilee

this one really had me thinking both ways

You can cut tomorrow, but you can’t uncut tomorrow A surgery like this is always worth thoroughly investigating both sides

[dynamite0319]

I definitely would have appreciated hearing from people who had opted for the surgery (with good or bad results) when I said yes to Coco’s, so wanted to share!

[shoer76]

@DiamondJubilee - A trim is just removing excess hoof. A shoe, besides adding protection, can aid in mechanics. So, there is no “special trim or shoes” .

I have trimmed / shod so the toe grows out, angle decreases and the joint isn’t broken forward.

If you think about it, your vet is telling you, one tendon in the entire body is growing slower than the bones. Does that make any sense to you?

I would get your sisters horse knuckling over out of you mind. It has nothing to do with your horse.

As far as the desmotomy, as I said, put a couple degree pads at the toe to prove the check ligament isn’t the issue. So, cut the ligament and the hoof angle decreases a couple of degrees. Ask yourself why. What does that couple degrees help? If the issue isn’t the check ligament and you cut the check, are you not still dealing with the issue afterwards?

I’m not going to PM you. You have a run of the mill confirmation and you’re turning it into something it isn’t. The angle is going to be around 60 degrees. Quit trying to lower the angle and let your horse be sound and win some ribbons.

[DiamondJubilee]

So after more research and speaking with different vets and farriers, I did decide to go ahead with surgery. It was a day surgery and it started around 8am and I picked him up around 4pm. A very small 1cm incision was made and ultrasound was used through the whole process. The surgeon was very happy with the results and says within 2 months, he will be totally fine and will have a great career ahead of him. The farrier came to the hospital and was able to nail a shoe on him. This will stay on for 3-4 weeks and then he will be trimmed and another shoe will be put back on. He will work with my current farrier so they can make a plan for the rest of his recovery.

He is on stall rest for 3 weeks, then round ring turnout for 2 weeks and then normal turnout at 5 weeks. We made him a temporary stall out of one of our 10 x 10 run in sheds so he can be out with his buddies all around him. Then they can all come inside for the night to their stalls. So far he’s been good and seems content.

I had several vets and farriers tell me about all of the success stories after surgery and all agreed 100% to have him done now. He is getting close to the age range to have it done as he is now 14 months and most have them done around 6 months or so, but he didn’t really show a club foot until he was 12 months and we tried for 2 months to correct with shorter intervals on trimming (2-3 weeks) which was not helping. As much as I didn’t want to do surgery, I do think it was the best decision for him. I will keep everyone updated as we go along in case someone has a foal with a club foot and is deciding on what to do as well.

[ThreeWishes]

Best wishes! Please keep updating this thread with your horse’s progress. It’s so informative.
PS. Your dog is awesome. What kind of hound?

[DiamondJubilee]

Will do!!

My girl is a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog and she loves her ponies and they love her too!

[ThreeWishes]

She’s LOVELY!!! What a cool looking dog.

[DiamondJubilee]

I also meant to add that they do grade a club foot. From 1 (being very minor) to 4 (being severe). I never had him graded but on his discharge papers, the surgeon did grade him at a 3.5/4, so very severe.

[DiamondJubilee]

Aww!! Thank you! We were just in MA for a horse show and I had the photographer there do a photo shoot of her. I love her so much <3 All 110lb of love! And energy to burn ha ha! A true working and farm dog.

Pic: Blue Moon Images <3

[ThreeWishes]

She is glorious. So sorry to sabotage your thread. Your dog just caught my eye. I love her. Did you get her from a local breeder ?

[DiamondJubilee]

no worries (hope no one else minds, I can talk about her all day ha ha!!). She was a bit local. They are a rare breed here and only a few breeders in Ontario. He father was imported from Russia as inbreeding is common within the breed since they are so rare in NA. She was about 2hr away from me and was a last minute decision. I had a Bernese 30 year ago and loved the breed, but not the hair and they did not like the heat. I wanted something similar but more heat tolerant. She is not an easy dog by any means so I don’t suggest them to everyone, but for me, she’s perfect. She is very, very active and prey driven and stubborn. Not my best trained dog I’ve owned, thats for sure ha ha! She has a big opinion on everything and likes to do what she wants to do and when she wants to do it Its common within the breed apparently lol. She’s also a tank and knows it. She uses her size and weight to her own advantage. But she is honestly the happiest dog I’ve ever seen. Loves everyone and every dog she meets. Not a growl or mean bone in her body. She just greats everyone with a little too much enthusiasm, which we are both working on (and have been working on for the past year with a little improvement, I think).

[Bonnie2]

Thank you for the updates and all the information. Fingers crossed!

[candyappy]

Looking forward to seeing the improvement. That was the worst club foot i have seen. I hope it works.

[ThreeWishes]

Thank you for the sidebar. Yea that’s exactly what I thought a Bernese without the parka! Lovely lovely dog. And thank you again for sharing your young horse’s journey. Can’t wait to hear the next progress update !