Questions! please

Hi
H/J-er here, with a few questions. Backstory is- I have a lovely young horse that I may like to do an event on.
If someone could point me to the right place that would be great!

  1. are there young horse divisions like jumpers?
  2. if so, how much is asked of a 5 year old- how big are the cross country jumps and what exactly does she need to know for the dressage? we don’t have flying changes yet.
  3. can I use my regular tack (saddle?) What bits are legal?

I’m sure theres a bunch more I’m forgetting, so feel free to overwhelm me with info.

TIA!

  1. the baby novice division might work for you. some of the schooling events/horse trials also do smaller divisions, like grasshopper, for babies and more entry-level eventers.
  2. check out the USEA rulebook for fence heights, etc https://useventing.com/events-compet…esources/rules and dont worry about the lead changes - you dont need them at the lower levels.
    ”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹3. yes, and for bits, check the rulebook. (there are even pictures! lol)

and welcome to the dark side. :wink:

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Yes there are young horse competitions, but that is NOT where you want to start. They are designed for/dominated by VERY experienced riders on precocious hoses. YEH (Young Event Horse) ( https://useventing.com/events-competitions/competitions/young-event-horse ) ( https://useventing.com/safety-education/forms-documents/yeh-rules-and-guidelines ) .

Since you ask about 5 year olds, they jump 2’7" to 2’11" Jan to June, 2’11" to 3’3" July to Oct, and 3’3" to 3’7"at the championship.

A better place to start is the Beginner Novice level (2’7"). There are even lower, unrecognized, levels at many Horse Trials.

Don’t worry about flying changes, those are not asked for until the Advanced level (jumping 3’11" in cross country and 4’1" in show jumping.

The tack rules, and the dressage and jumping requirements for each level are spelled out in the rule book ( https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/KlV5P9prkmM/ev-eventing-division ) and Annex 1 ( https://useventing.com/resources/documents/eventing-annex-1.pdf ). The tack restrictions are most strict for dressage (for instance NO TWISTED SNAFFLES). The biggest tack restrictions in the jumping phases, for someone coming from H/J is NO STANDING MARTINGALES.

It would be a good idea to check out “If You Like To Ride . . . Why Not Make An Event Of It!” ( https://useventing.com/resources/documents/RandyMay.pdf )

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I don’t know about over there and now but when I evented many a year ago and here. You were not allowed to have a whip in the dressage phase.

That changed a long time ago in the US. The only time you cannot use a whip is in the dressage phase at a championship. If it isn’t a championship you can use a whip in dressage.

I came from the H/J world too, and found the two most helpful things prior to my first event were 1) riding with an event coach, and 2) grooming for a friend at an event. It really helped me get the lay of the land and answered questions I didn’t even know to ask.

Welcome to the dark side!

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As a rules guru, do you know the reasoning behind this rule? We have the same one here in Canada, and nobody seems to know why you can carry a whip at any show except champs. I even asked a former Olympic rider, now judge, who is on the rules committee and he didn’t know.

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I don’t judge the height measurement as a guide. A 3’3” xc jump is different than SJ. It is not super technical xc at novice and below but you need a few good xc schools with an experienced person to really figure out the best level for you to start.

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I do, at least at USEF. I was at some of the meetings where it was being debated.

FEI rules (which forbid the whip in the dressage tests) apply to reasonably advanced riders, who are expected to be able to use spurs correctly. USEF rules have to also apply to inexperienced riders (who often do not have good enough leg control to use spurs correctly) on lazy ponies/ horses. The result of the old rule was that kids with lazy ponies were using spurs, and giving them unplanned jabs.

The rationale was that it was better to let them use a whip, and thus only use it when they actually intended it, than to make them wear spurs as the only “encouragement”.

There was some talk about making the rule different at different levels (e.g., no whips in Dressage at Prelim and above), but that was voted down.

Some of our most prominent riders were viamently (sp?) against permitting whips in dressage, but they were outvoted

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Thanks everyone- I will check all of this out!

What is “super technical” when it comes to XC? like the striding- or jumps on a row/ on an angle? I know what I would consider “technical” in an EQ course but this is like a foreign language.

  1. does beginner novice have ditches and water?

  2. Can i use my regular H/J saddle?

Riding cross country is not like jumping in an arena, which is why they are two different elements wthin the sport. As suggested above, a) take some training with an eventer and b) groom for friend or volunteer (knowledge not always required) because the entire vibe, rhythm and fun are unique to eventing, or c) just go along and watch one, see for yourself and have a good day out.

2ft 9 on an undulating grassy field is not the same as 2ft 9 on an artificial arena surface. It is a different style of riding so it is important * for your own safety and that of your horse * to have xc lessons before you compete.

However, it is more about function than fashion in eventing so don’t worry about saddles or the brand name on your hat or boots. Eventers are usually helpful, friendly, down to earth people who will happily answer all your questions and help you learn and progress. Welcome to a great sport.

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A local PC had in it’s first year of existence, a clinic with a CT oriented clinician. Said clinician set jumps in a rolling paddock The ground was basically level, just slightly up and down hill on grass. A bunch of totally terrorized kids found that they could survive, even when they moved to a field with a running stream. :lol:

Of course they were thoroughly coached through the day.

That is why you may want a bit of instruction, unless of course, foxhunting is in your background.:wink:

yes to saddle. Yes to banks, water and ditches at BN. But obviously depends on venue. You will also sometimes have two stride combos at BN. And sometimes a simple combination with ditch, water or bank…even at BN. Technical xc has to do with many things. Terrain (jumping up and down hills). Combinations. Turning questions and skinny jumps. All start to be asked at the lower levels but are still intended to be introductory. But coming from the HJ world, it is learning to see those questions. How the hill will make that turn or jump ride harder than the height. Jump from light to dark…or dark to light…xc uses the terrain a lot to change the jump. Plus adding in jumping in large open spaces with jump judges can also take some getting use to.

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You might want to ask some event riders to a lunch with you (sitting 6’ apart of course, or maybe a Zoom lunch), and you’ll be able to hear, ask, discuss and get some great anecdotes as well. And get an idea of what to expect at your closest eventing venues. :slight_smile:

For divisions/classes you enter, there is the general level of Beg. Novice, Novice, and so on. And schooling horse trials will offer even lower divisions, and sometimes a “speed bump” division that is just logs and a few terrain features.

In addition to those levels, you also enter according to your classification as a competitor. Horse (green horse division, rider can be any classification); Rider (a rider who is not competing above the level; horse can be any classification); and Open (any rider, any horse). So you can be in the BN Rider division with other riders who aren’t competing above BN (in the last 2 years).

On XC, everything at BN and lower unrecognized levels is made to be basic and straightforward. There are no combinations, officially, although there may be separate jumps that are placed with a related distance between them. That is, close enough that you need to have the next jump in your sights to get there accurately. (Even lower unrecognized levels may have jumps spaced so that each is completely independent of the others.)

Beg. Novice will have a “ditch” that is usually a “barely there” ditch. Roughly, a couple of timbers on either side of a shallow spot. A maxed-out BN course might have a deeper ditch, with a separate jump a few strides before the ditch.

The Beg. Novice water is just trotting through the pond. You can also walk or canter through the water, as you wish. At BN there is likely to be a jump on dry ground before and/or after the water.

You also go down a low bank. There is a technique for riding this, but at BN often you can just use a good seat with your feet in front of you, and don’t lean forward, and the horse will go fine.

One of the best things about XC is that there is space and lots of opportunities on course to make some adjustments, even throw in an extra circle away from the jumps, if you need to do that to keep it all together. A bobble here or there isn’t the end of the world, there is plenty of opportunity to fix it.

Talk to local eventers to learn about your local horse trials and the level of course each offers. Basic and inviting? Or a maxed out championship course? That can change at each venue from year to year. As an example, a maxed-out BN course might have a jump before and after the water (all numbered separately, not a combination). Whereas a basic course may have no jumps close to the water, but will usually have one several strides from the entrance or from the exit. In another example, a basic course will have only a few jumps that are fully up to height, whereas a max-course may have all jumps at the max height and some at max width as well.

An eventing instructor who is very encouraging at the lower levels can help you understand how a course is laid out, and what to expect of the level of the jumps.

I strongly encourage an instructor/coach who is a true eventing instructor with a long track record in eventing. There is so much to know about riding to jumps going up and down hill, on various terrains and footings, how to ride the jumps on a longer stride, how a horse will read related jumps and terrain, and so on, it really takes a full immersion to be ready to teach others to event. :slight_smile:

Here’s a link to eventing rules, for comprehensive answers. I am pretty good at reading technical instructions, but I found this document to be dense until after I had been to some horse trials and started to get a feel for how they run. Then it became fascinating! :slight_smile:
https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/KlV5P9prkmM/ev-eventing-division

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And if your horse is 5 and still somewhat new to jumping/competing, I suggest getting a professional eventer to ride him around his first course or two. He will need someone who knows just how to steady him when his eyes are bugging out, and just how to get him to the right spot when he’s not sure. :slight_smile:

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What area do you live in OP?

The Cross Country phase of Eventing is more about terrain and location questions than striding (although striding is important, of course). But your uphill approach to a fence is considerably different from your downhill approach to the same fence, or jumping from light into shadow or back out again. There are many more questions that just the ones you will find in an arena.

Novice XC and below shouldn’t have severe terrain questions, or big ditch fences, or big spread fences. Drops are allowed, IIRC, but they are modest. A water crossing is allowed but not a jump in or out, for example.

Some young horses simply have trouble galloping to the end of the large field away from all the other horses. Some young horses simply have trouble not looking behind every bush they pass (because those horses may not be out on terrain much in their lives). Some horses may even have trouble with the distance of the course, even at a relatively sedate pace.

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Please get an XC lesson. There a LOT that can go wrong if you aren’t aware. It’s fun but please don’t go in blind.

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Thanks for answering - I can understand that rationale, except why no whip at champs? Is the rider expected to have learned that steady leg position (to use spurs) throughout the regular season? And if so, why then is the rider allowed to use the whip the following season except at champs?

If the idea is to ensure less experienced riders aren’t accidentally misusing spurs, then it does make sense to limit it by level rather than time of year. This was the part that the Olympic rider/judge and I were discussing and couldn’t figure out.

Thank you everyone! This is all super helpful. @Laurierace I am in Northern CA.