I remember in my youth the only hot blood breeds then were Arabian and Thoroughbred.
So is a saddlebred considered to be a true American warmblood?
So far I have not seen many showing in the highest levels.
In my recollection, yes (as in I was always taught ASB was a hot blood)
No. There are only two true hot bloods: Arabians and thoroughbreds. American saddlebredâs are a true warm blood.
Competition doesnât determine whether a horse is a hot blood, warm blood, or cold blood. Remember that thoroughbreds used to be the breed of choice and the jumper ring as well as the dressage ring.
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Cool, always happy to learn something Ă°ĆžËÆ
There is absolutely no way that a saddlebred is a warmblood. None.
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Saddlebredâs are descended mostly from racing breeds: thoroughbreds and trotters/pacers. I am sure there is some cart horse blood mixed in, but I would have trouble considering one a warmblood.
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I thought ASB foundation sire Denmark was a TB?
Technically American Warmbloods are a type not a breed per say, and yes, an American Saddlebred can meet the criteria of an American Warmblood and pass inspections.
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I am in the school of thought as the above.
If you use the phrase âwarmbloodâ in standard equestrian company, the general assumption is going to be that you are referencing the midweight class of horses of european descent (that have evolved into the âwarmblood registriesâ we know today). While there are a few âamerican warmbloodâ registries (AWR and AWSSR? I think?) and at least one of them does not have breed restrictions for what type of horse they accept, this is playing fast and loose with that definition. This is also related to how people will take, for example, a draftx (generally draftxtb, ime) and market them as âwarmbloodsâ with significantly inflated prices - people can read âwarmbloodâ and assume it refers to one of the registries there pedigree is taken into account (e.g., you donât find a quarter horse in the Westfalen studbook) and then assume quality based on exclusivity, which justifies a price tag.
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Get the Popcorn. How many times do we need to debate the issue?
Generally speaking, and having had all kinds of breeds over the years, I consider ASBs to be a hot blooded horse.
Just my personal experience.
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That is totally different though if you ask me. My TB mare is in the main mare book for Oldenburg NA, she is still a TB though, that approval didnât change her pedigree.
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I think the traditional hot-warm-cold blood divisions arenât really that clear.
I know that âhot bloodedâ has more than one definition, but I like this one the best: Hot blooded breeds are the ancient oriental breeds that originated primarily in the Middle East. So I think that clearly includes the Arab, Barb, Akhal-Teke, maybe some other old, rare breeds that you can think of.
But, it gets murkier when you start looking at breeds that derived from those old hot blooded breeds. I think most everyone agrees that Thoroughbreds and Anglo-Arabs are hot blooded, but what about breeds like Andalusian and Lusitano? They derive from those hot blooded horses, as do ASBs and Quarter Horses, but are they considered to be hot bloods?
I think cold blood is much more straightforward to define and categorize, as are the traditional European warmbloods.
But, if you extend âwarmbloodâ beyond the well-defined European warmblood breeds and apply the basic definition: a breed created by crossing hot blood and cold blood horses, then there are a lot of breeds/crossbreds that meet that definition. Personally, I think that the term âwarmbloodâ has become so strongly associated with the European breeds that it canât legitimately be used for anything else - even if my (hypothetical) 1/4 Belgian-3/4 Thoroughbred cross is technically a warmblood by the generic definition, I would never call it that.
So, to answer the original question, âIs an ASB a hot blood?,â it depends. It depends on how you want to define hot blood. I am inclined to say no, but I wouldnât call them warmbloods, either, and I wouldnât argue with you if you wanted to call an ASB a hot blooded breed.
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The way horses used to be classified was draft horse, warmblood and light horse.
Light horses were generally those like TBs, Arabians and their crosses.
Their physical characteristics and temperaments made them a more refined, but less powerful horse, compared with draft horses, that were heavier set, stronger and could carry more weight, but generally were not as good to run fast and move quickly.
Warmbloods were crosses from draft and light horses and came in all kinds, some more drafty, some more light horse, but in general not quite either one.
Individuals of either group could do all kinds of things their group may not be known for.
One of the high point jumpers in our region was a larger registered Belgian, clearly a draft horse.
He was used on a farm wagon until at 14, by chance, was ridden one day when a spare trail horse was needed.
Our shows were all outside and he was a star at it until retired four years later. He may have had trouble in a smaller indoor arena.
Saddlebreds, if we did had any, would have been considered the light type under those definitions, going by their body type, definitively not any drafty to any of them, even if many make excellent driving horses also, like draft horses are.
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Actually this is a good point that I quite like, and leads me to a thought that might be a useful distinction.
When I hear âwarmbloodâ Iâm assuming someone is referring to a registry which has parentage requirements (both by pedigree and approval). Registries that lack those restrictions are performance registries to me, not a breed registry⊠so regardless of if the registry title has warmblood in it, that doesnât mean the horses are warmblood.
(and again, I use the word warmblood colloquially to refer to the European registries & their affiliates, not the school of thought that âhotâÂxâÂcoldâÂ=âwarmâÂ⊠which frankly, given how far we have come into breeding and breed history, I am not certain is even relevant anymore. What about the WBs that are 80%+ blood? The use of TB in QH breeding, or even to further muddy the waters, the Iberianxs, some of which are from stallions approved by warmblood registries? I think the hot, cold, warm, blood concepts may have outlived their usefulness in conversation as they really lack specificity.)
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Re: bolded - agreed x1000.
No one would ever refer to a QH as a âwarmbloodâ, but if you go by the most rudimentary/fundamental of definitions, they are.
I think the bigger picture question is: why does it matter/in what context is it relevant? A far more useful way to discuss the traits/characteristics of any given ASB would be to look at its pedigree - thatâs going to give you a much better idea of the animals than whether it falls under hot, warm or coldblooded.
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Thatâs a good question- Grey Eagle- also a stallion who helped found the breed, was allegedly TB. Denmark, not so much. If you are a lover of ASBâs, I recommend the Susanne books- all three. They are out of print, and not inexpensive, but they have all of the horses who started the breed- in volume 1, and they go on from there.
Hereâs the deal- just because it CAN be hot, doesnât mean it is a HOT blood. Iâve had perfectly tough horses of every breed possible, and they werenât TBâs or Arabs.
Now, where it gets fuzzy, for those who are thinking about warmbloods (as in the originally branded variety), is that a bunch of those horses ARE Thoroughbreds, high content TB, or have some in there, and they get into the studbooks, et voila! WARMBLOOD. I have had warmbloods that I have worked that I thought were more cold blooded than anything else (think stump-puller), and the hotter variety.
Can you make an ASB hot? Yes. Are some of them born that way? I have one here on the farm who qualifies. But the reality is that they were infused with VERY similar blood to Standardbreds and Morgans, at the beginning. The refinement and training doesnât make them hot bloods any more than todayâs warmbloods. With FAR less TB in there.
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The answer will depend on where you look if you are doing a Google search. Some sites place it firmly in the Warmblood category due to the infusion of Thoroughbred blood in creating the breed, others say the breed is often mistaken for Warmbloods. I spend a lot of time looking at horse ads and I find it amazing that some sellers will call just about anything that is a cross as a Warmblood, including QH/TB crosses, and Saddlebred or Saddle Horse crosses that they have no idea what it is crossed with. I was always taught that the answer partly depends on the number of red blood cells in a ml of blood, with Arabians (hot bloods) having the most, thoroughbreds coming in a close second, Draft horses (cold bloods) the least, and the rest falling somewhere in between and that is probably closer to the truth.The only definitive placing for a Saddlebred in the Warmblood category seems to come from the Saddlebred Sport Horse breeders who are currently crossing it with Thoroughbred lines.
Here are a few links for reading enjoyment:
https://www.furrycritter.com/fcn/descriptions/horses/saddlebreds.html
https://www.thehorseguide.com/horse-breed-information/warmblood-breeds/american-saddlebred/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Saddlebred
https://www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net/convention-presentation/
Cool!
Has this been proven or disproven?
It would explain horse terms like âx horse has a lot of blood.â When describing a hot one.
If you want to go with the 4H Hippology/ Horse Bowl and Pony Club trivia type answer, then an ASB is a warmblood. If itâs not an Arab or a TB (hot blood) or draft (cold blood), then itâs a warmblood. It doesnât really mean anything though and itâs really not something for anyone to get their knickers in a twist over
