Quick Questions - saddle trial almost over!

[Juxtapoze]

I’ve got a Medium tree Frank Baines Elegance out on trial right now. Killer deal on price. Saddle is a good fit for me and my long term lease (a narrow 15H QH) and another QH I ride. I’m almost ready to pull the trigger but a few nagging questions before I commit.

This Medium tree seems too narrow for many TBs at our barn. Flocking is very full & fluffy as saddle is new. Back panel shape seems to fit a decent variety of horses, but again, shoulder fit would be concerns if I get a different horse in future as horse would probably be a 16ish H TB.

Can a Medium be adjusted to MW by removing some of the flocking? Any TB or WB owners riding in a Medium tree dressage saddle?

Saddle flap leather is different than expected. It is a tad slick (saddle is new). I was expecting something more pre-oiled or grippy. Will the flaps eventually break in to be grippier? I’m not concerned from a safety or position standpoint, just want to know what I can expect. (I have the printed vintage leather on my Black Country jump saddles and they felt broken in/grippy from the start).

Do any new dressage saddles have that broken in feel from the start in the $2000-$3000 price point? Thanks all! I have less than 2 days to figure this out and appreciate the feedback.

[atr]

I think when you are buying a dressage saddle, you really have to work with what fits what you ride now, and not worry about finding something flexible enough to fit everything in the future.

My saddle fitter and I have a running joke that any new horse for either of us will have to fit the saddles we currently own…

It’s very unlikely that you can satisfactorily flock up or down a complete tree width, In my experience, though the flocking will pack down quite a bit, quite quickly.

I can’t answer about the leather break-in, except to say that panels usually do, eventually!

[Scribbler]

Yes buy for the horse you have now. Makes no sense to buy a saddle that doesn’t fit current horse but might fit some imaginary future horse.

[Juxtapoze]

That “imaginary future horse” comment hit me hard. Coming up on 2 years since I lost my beloved TB. Oh, how I wish I was buying this saddle for him.

As excited as I am to finally have my own dressage saddle, it feels like a sad consolation prize to having a new horse partner.

For those of you with supportive partners or parents in your horse pursuits, for those of you with finances to easily justify spending an extra grand here and there on your horse… be forever grateful. Seriously, hug those people and thank god you were blessed with good horse fortune. There are many of us out there who have to hustle and scrape and agonize over every decision. All journeys are different.

[Scribbler]

@Juxtapoze

That “imaginary future horse” comment hit me hard. Coming up on 2 years since I lost my beloved TB. Oh, how I wish I was buying this saddle for him.

As excited as I am to finally have my own dressage saddle, it feels like a sad consolation prize to having a new horse partner.

For those of you with supportive partners or parents in your horse pursuits, for those of you with finances to easily justify spending an extra grand here and there on your horse… be forever grateful. Seriously, hug those people and thank god you were blessed with good horse fortune. There are many of us out there who have to hustle and scrape and agonize over every decision. All journeys are different.

Sorry I couldn’t tell from your list that you had lost a TB! All it said was you had a long term lease on a QH. Anyhow, ride the horse you have and when the next horse comes along you can figure out what to do.

[Juxtapoze]

No offense taken Scribbler. You are absolutely right to say buy for the horse I have now. I wish it were under different circumstances and without the anxiety of an angry husband if the saddle doesn’t work out. BUT I am so tired of trying to do serious dressage work in my jump saddle and my hips and knees are starting to complain. I’ve been dreaming of my own dressage saddle for 20 yrs. Why wait another 20 when the right deal and fit comes along? Nothing is guaranteed tomorrow even if everything seemed “perfect” today.

Would still like to know the following though:
Can a Medium tree be adjusted to MW by removing some of the flocking?
Any TB or WB owners riding in a Medium tree dressage saddle?
Will the flaps eventually break in to be grippier?

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

@Juxtapoze

No offense taken Scribbler. You are absolutely right to say buy for the horse I have now. I wish it were under different circumstances and without the anxiety of an angry husband if the saddle doesn’t work out. BUT I am so tired of trying to do serious dressage work in my jump saddle and my hips and knees are starting to complain. I’ve been dreaming of my own dressage saddle for 20 yrs. Why wait another 20 when the right deal and fit comes along? Nothing is guaranteed tomorrow even if everything seemed “perfect” today.

Would still like to know the following though:
Can a Medium tree be adjusted to MW by removing some of the flocking?
Any TB or WB owners riding in a Medium tree dressage saddle?
Will the flaps eventually break in to be grippier?

1. It depends on the saddle. A medium tree by one saddle maker can be a medium wide or a narrow by another saddle maker. I wouldn’t recommend trying to get a saddle to fit that way. If the saddle is too narrow it’s too narrow.

2. My wb is in a med wide. But a saddle needs to fit along the sides as well as the shoulders. It may be wide enough for the shoulders but it may not be the right shape for the back.

3. dressage saddles tend to have smooth flaps and they don’t get any gripper at least not in my experience. You may want to try riding in full seat breeches if you feel like you are sliding too much.

You may want to try a Wintec. They are a pretty good saddle and if you decide you want to sell it they are very easy to re sell. I had a Wintec all purpose and a Wintec dressage and I sold them on consignment at a local tack shop in four days.
Good luck and don’t despair. You can find a saddle to fit your horse. They are out there.
Hope this helps.

[TheHotSensitiveType]

@Juxtapoze

That “imaginary future horse” comment hit me hard. Coming up on 2 years since I lost my beloved TB. Oh, how I wish I was buying this saddle for him.

I am sorry you lost your horse! That is never an easy thing to deal with.

@Juxtapoze

For those of you with supportive partners or parents in your horse pursuits, for those of you with finances to easily justify spending an extra grand here and there on your horse… be forever grateful. Seriously, hug those people and thank god you were blessed with good horse fortune. There are many of us out there who have to hustle and scrape and agonize over every decision. All journeys are different.

Honestly, that is most of us! Last January I finally determined my saddle of many years didn’t fit my mare, and the only things in my price range were used name brands (good condition, not excellent condition) or Wintec. My mare fortunately really goes well in the Wintec Isabell that I got gently used. I ride non-dressage, green horses just to get more saddle time in and manage a dressage lesson 1x a month. I get frustrated sometimes too especially with my slow progress due to lack of funds/time, but just the fact I have a horse and get to ride so much, even if not dressage horses, helps.

ETA: I would only buy the saddle if it fits you and the horse you will be riding for awhile. If your only concern is the saddle fitting future horses, I would buy it.

[Scribbler]

Yes the back to front rocker curve is at least as important as the wither gullet.

There is no standarization of tree widths between brands.

Also a horses back changes as he develops.

You might start out with a gangly young ottb who needs a narrow plus shims for his hollow withers and in 2 years need a medium.

My Paint mare has a M Passier Dressage saddle and a M county jumping saddle. Both bought second hand, both stuffed to fit her. Over the past year she has outgrown the jump saddle. It just floats on her back. And I’ve taken the sheepskin out from under the dressage saddle. It used to be a hair wide in front. Now it is perfect.

Of the buying of saddles there is no end.

[atr]

I’m sorry you lost your horse. I think many of us know how you feel.

With saddles, if you handle it correctly, the partner never needs to know about any complex transactions that get involved. Cost of new saddle can only be the sale price of old saddle plus any spare cash I have squirreled away for just this purpose…

If you are concerned that the saddle you purchase now is going to have to “do” for future horses, I think in your case I’d make sure whatever I purchased had interchangeable gullets or an adjustable tree. They aren’t the perfect solution for every horse, by any means, but they will give you something that you can “get by” with, maybe with a shim pad and some creativity, until the right deal comes along–as it usually does in the end if you are patient. (I’d also look for something with wool flocking to get the widest range of adjustability.)

Good luck!

[Scribbler]

I know some one whose husband only thinks she has a couple of horses lol but she has a whole herd. It helps if they are all the same color.

If husband isn’t genuinely horsey put up a bit of a firewall around your horse expenses and use your own income. Seriously.

Guaranteed you don’t know as much about his incidental expenses as he does about yours.

[Bogie]

[quote="

Would still like to know the following though:
[B"]

Can a Medium tree be adjusted to MW by removing some of the flocking?
Any TB or WB owners riding in a Medium tree dressage saddle?
Will the flaps eventually break in to be grippier? [/B]

[/quote]

Reflocking can make a big difference in fit. It’s very hard to tell until you have a horse in front of you that you want to wear the saddle. There are many more elements to saddle fit than tree width. Keep in mind that you can have the tree professionally widened or narrowed up to one size by a saddler with a saddle press. I have done that and it worked just fine.

My dressage saddle (Roosli) is a wide tree. It fit my warnblood gelding beautifully, fits my draft x mare and it fits my TB gelding with extra padding but my TB normally wears a MW.

Most likely the flaps will get grippier as the break in but I’m not familiar with that saddle.

If the saddle fits YOU and it fits the horse you are riding and it’s s good price, buy it. You can always sell it if it doesn’t work for the next horse.

[Scribbler]

My own saddle fitter won’t mess with a press, says it tends to weaken the tree.

[js]

I wouldn’t bank on removing flocking to "widen"a saddle at least not enough to make a difference. Then there are all the other aspects of fit that might be good for the horse(s) you currently ride but may be completely different for a future horse. Fit what you are currently riding, not what you might ride in the future.

[NorthernHunter]

I don’t think the leather will get grippier with time…but if you use some glycerin saddle soap on it before riding it makes it a little more tacky… and I find the smoother leathers though less grippy are hardier and show less wear.

[x-halt-salute]

@Juxtapoze

Would still like to know the following though:
Can a Medium tree be adjusted to MW by removing some of the flocking?
Any TB or WB owners riding in a Medium tree dressage saddle?
Will the flaps eventually break in to be grippier?

I’m skeptical about the odds of adjusting fit a whole tree size just by adjusting flocking. The panels typically aren’t the thickest where the tree points are and I don’t know that they could tolerate the removal of that much wool. Not to mention that other aspects of fit (e.g. tree rocker) could still make or break the fit for a different horse down the road.

As for TBs in M trees, I used to ride a dainty (15.2, lightly built) TB in a M tree Albion SLK, but I have no idea how that compares to a M tree Baines Elegance.

Have you considered buying used? Used saddles have already undergone the “drive it off the lot” value drop and are usually broken in such that you know what you are getting in terms of leather softness and texture. There’s a M tree Baines Elegance listed on one of the big online used saddle shops right now with buffalo leather that might provide more softness and grip, for example, and it’s listed at about half of the retail price for a brand new Elegance (afraid to run afoul of advertising rules else I’d link it – I’m not the seller). I’m sure you are loathe to start over again w.r.t. fit and may be getting such a good deal on the new saddle that the price difference isn’t significant, so ignore if this isn’t relevant. But buying used is one way to hedge your bets against a big financial loss if you need to sell the saddle in the future because it no longer fits whoever you’re riding.

I hope you end up with the perfect saddle to quiet down your protesting knees and hips (without the Mr. becoming the grumpy one along the way)!

[Bogie]

@Scribbler

My own saddle fitter won’t mess with a press, says it tends to weaken the tree.

My saddler told me that he won’t adjust a tree more than twice for that reason. My own experience is limited. I have a County Extreme that was widened before I bought it. I’ve owned it for 10+ years and it’s been fine. I’ve considered widening a second saddle because I like it so much and because I know my mare has the same shape back as my gelding, she’s just wider. However, I found the saddle I wanted used in a wide tree and just bought that.

I think the wildcard is that you must find a fitter who is very competent at using a saddle press or you can end up with an uneven adjustment.

[Scribbler]

@Bogie

My saddler told me that he won’t adjust a tree more than twice for that reason. My own experience is limited. I have a County Extreme that was widened before I bought it. I’ve owned it for 10+ years and it’s been fine. I’ve considered widening a second saddle because I like it so much and because I know my mare has the same shape back as my gelding, she’s just wider. However, I found the saddle I wanted used in a wide tree and just bought that.

I think the wildcard is that you must find a fitter who is very competent at using a saddle press or you can end up with an uneven adjustment.

Yes. Apparently it is not a good idea to have the press in the back of your SUV since it isn’t totally level and not a good idea to press the saddle multiple times for one fitting. One of the high end saddle reps does that here.

[no.stirrups]

@Juxtapoze

Can a Medium be adjusted to MW by removing some of the flocking? Any TB or WB owners riding in a Medium tree dressage saddle?

Tree size (M or MW) refers to the angle of the tree points. So moving flocking will not change the angle, though it can provide more space.
As others have said, sizes are not consistent across brands, but widening in a tree press is a possibility for the future, and it has to fit the horse you have now.

[jaybird660]

Adjusting flocking will allow for some growth but it doesn’t change the angle of the points. There are standards for British made saddles that mean that the sizing will be consistent within a certain parameter. Therefore, saddles within that standard should have the same tree fit. However, panels vary and the shape and length of tree points vary which confuse people on width sizing. Widening one size is fairly common but doing it repeatedly is not recommended.
I agree that you do have to fit what is in front of you but make sure to fit the horse both actively and statically as what looks good statically might not make the horse happy in motion.