Quirky lead change advice

[gertie06]

Hey all. First, let me preface this by saying I am definitely going to work with our trainer to sort this out, but I do learn a lot from COTHers, so I am posing this question here for outside input.

My daughter’s pony is a fairly solid citizen. A little spooky, a fair share of ponytude, but overall a good guy. However, he was totally backyard trained by his original owner and has some real weird spots in his education. Case in point: you have to cue him off the inside leg to canter. This must make sense to someone somewhere, but it makes no sense to me. Took us some time to figure this out. You still move your outside leg behind the girth to get his body into correct position, but you apply your inside leg at the girth for him to depart.

Now, this pony does have a change. Not a great change, but it’s there. Original owner told us he had an auto change (yeah, no). For the love of all that is holy, I cannot get it (and my daughter doesn’t even try; she’s too green). Also, I’m not big on drilling the change anyway. Whatever I try to do, he only swaps in front. I’m trying to get him balanced on the new outside, coming forward, bending to the new direction, and making sure his haunch is slightly in. I’m keeping my body balanced as well as I can. But when I try to cue him, he gets offended/tense, goes up and down, sometimes bucks, swaps in front, and that’s that.

Bearing in mind his canter depart weirdness, I have tried cueing him with the inside leg instead of the outside. Didn’t work. I just don’t think I’m asking him the way he understands or was taught.

We bought a new saddle that fits him properly. We had the chiropractor look at him. He’s totally sound.

Where do we go from here? I think maybe we need to just forget about the flying change for a moment and stick to simple changes. But we need some exercises that’ll help us overcome this hurdle.

Your thoughts??

[Limerick2017]

Someone very wise taught me a long time ago that swapping a lead in front is not a lead change or halfway to one. It is a messed up canter as the change has to come from behind. Yes, I know some ponies learn to skip the change behind but it usually looks horrible and frantic. I would get this pony some basic flat work, teach her to pick up canter properly and wait til she is schooled properly before letting anyone ask for changes. If you do need to do simple changes, always come back to a walk or even halt as it will get her thinking more about her hind end. Patience and attention to detail now will pay off later and your daughter will benefit. Good luck!

[ToTheNines]

Will he pick it up correctly from the walk or halt? My favorite exercise for getting good lead changes. Aids are the same. I never actually practice them on the flat on my made horses.

[gertie06]

@ToTheNines

Will he pick it up correctly from the walk or halt? My favorite exercise for getting good lead changes. Aids are the same. I never actually practice them on the flat on my made horses.

Yes, he will. Like I said, the cues are a bit odd, but he’ll depart nicely from the walk.

[sandsarita]

@gertie06

Yes, he will. Like I said, the cues are a bit odd, but he’ll depart nicely from the walk.

I am not an expert on these type of horses but have ridden some trained this way. Cuing with the inside leg is kinda old school but very accepted.

Most of these horses for me change by changing the bend and cuing with the inside leg, switching from current to new. Personally I would work on getting him to accept the aids in all situations and then ask for the change.

[CHT]

Could it be that he is a little sore, and so the lead change is harder for him now? (SI, hocks or stifles). I think soreness is a common reason an established lead change can be lost.

I would probably retrain the canter depart before working on the lead change though. A way I teach students to train the lead change is to canter across the diagonal pushing the horse over off the old outside leg, and then ask for the change as you get close to the wall by thinking of pushing the horse laterally off the new outside leg.

IT only works of course, if the pony knows how to move laterally off leg.

[SuzieQNutter]

Keep working with the basics and eventually lessen the aid you need for the canter transition, so as you don’t have to move your inside leg forward.

[Renn_aissance]

The seller said he had an automatic change and you’ve seen no evidence of that. Do you know the pony has a change under saddle at all (have you ever seen it with your own eyes?) If the pony is changing its lead up front but not making any effort to jump up and swap the lead behind, it’s not trying to change, it’s falling off the balance of its front end. From what you say I’d be skeptical that the pony has a proper lead change at all.

I would take it back to ground zero and teach the pony the canter depart aids you want it to know. Then teach it the flatwork you want it to know. I don’t want to think about a lead change until the critter shows understanding of lateral work both ways at trot and canter and can show the counter lead without trying to fall over. That’s because I want the pony to understand how to operate and balance each one of its legs independently of the other and know the relationship between my whole complement of aids- leg, seat, hand- and the action of its body. After that, I teach a change coming across the diagonal, inside lead, down to trot or walk, leg-yield a couple of steps towards the track, half-halt to emphasize the balance on the outside hock, change bend, canter. Do that half a million times until the pony wins the world championship of simple changes, so that the pony learns that change of balance + change of bend + new outside aid = new inside lead. Then give it a shot at canter.

By this point your pony will be reasonably broke on the flat using the aids that you want your daughter to use, so if your problem was miscommunication, you will now be speaking the same language. And the pony will have gotten stronger and more agile in the hind end, so if your problem was physical capability, you should have either solved for a strength issue or exposed a mechanical one. If your problem is just that you have a smart pony who’s flailing around to get out of work, you’ve also probably bored it into changing its lead out of self-defense. :lol:

[chestnutmarebeware]

The people I know who cue the canter with an inside leg are dressage riders. Maybe reaching out to that community will yield a flying change cue that works for your guy.

[IPEsq]

I use a lot of inside leg to canter. I think it comes from riding a lot of lazier horses. The outside leg cues the position but the inside leg is the gas pedal, the activating leg. If the horse is more forward, then it might only need a bit of the outside leg sliding back. To hit the gas, inside leg.

So maybe I can help you here :). To teach a change, I ask for a lot of jump in the canter. This comes from active inside leg to activate the inside hind leg. I then want the horse to have a reliable and straight half halt into the new outside rein. From there, it should be a shift in weight that gets it done. If not, then for this horse I’d try to simultaneously hit the gas with the new inside leg. This is while you’ve got the horse in the new outside rein and you have shifted your hips so your weight is a little to the outside and new outside leg is back. But I never kick with the new outside leg. I’d want to have the horse come between new inside rein and outside leg.

It’s kind of hard to correct it if you get to the point of really using the new inside leg. Better to focus efforts on the impulsion and jump in the canter leading to the half halt. If that goes well, the hind legs should be weighted appropriately with enough impulsion that bringing the inside hind forward is easy. Even though many hunter changes are late from a dressage perspective, they still really do need to come from behind to do it clean.

[PNWjumper]

Some good advice here. But my tip? Whatever method you use to get the change, install a “voice command/sound.” I started making a “Boop!” sound whenever we changed directions/leads with my daughter’s pony (who also did. not. have a change when he came). I did it when we took a trot step. I did it when we halted and cantered off on the opposite lead. I did it when we used a little jump and then a pole across the diagonal. And it seems to have helped when my daughter was the one on board and couldn’t be as nuanced with her cues. Big bonus? When she’s in the show ring and on the wrong lead I can make the [subtle and hard to tell where it came from] sound and both the pony and the kid hear it.

[IPEsq]

@PNWjumper

Some good advice here. But my tip? Whatever method you use to get the change, install a “voice command/sound.” I started making a “Boop!” sound whenever we changed directions/leads with my daughter’s pony (who also did. not. have a change when he came). I did it when we took a trot step. I did it when we halted and cantered off on the opposite lead. I did it when we used a little jump and then a pole across the diagonal. And it seems to have helped when my daughter was the one on board and couldn’t be as nuanced with her cues. Big bonus? When she’s in the show ring and on the wrong lead I can make the [subtle and hard to tell where it came from] sound and both the pony and the kid hear it.

Ah yes, I just posted in another thread that I have use a whistle.