Hi
Thinking about buying my husband a horse that does more than eat. We have show horses, but I have loved horse racing since I was a little kid, and used to work at a TB farm. I am wondering what it costs per month to have a horse in training with a decent trainer at a decent track- stake and allowance type racing. Not looking at all to get into low level claiming. We own our own facility, so if the horse need lay-up it would come home. We would also be able to take responsibility for retraining/placement when the horse needed to move into a different line of work. What is the best way to get started? We found with our show horses you sometimes have to go through a couple of people to get to where you want to be, but there can be some significant heartache and “wallet-draining” before you get there. Would like to avoid those mistakes again.
[QUOTE=kimball1;4660816]
We found with our show horses you sometimes have to go through a couple of people to get to where you want to be, but there can be some significant heartache and “wallet-draining” before you get there. Would like to avoid those mistakes again.[/QUOTE]
Same thing with racehorses. :lol:
Dayrate (you pay by the day versus the month) for what you’re describing would be in the $80 - $100 range. Plus, vet, blacksmith, vanning and any other charges the trainer may bill (supplements, tack fees, etc.). Vet charges depend on the trainer, vet and horse and can vary widely but $500 - $1,000/ month is pretty typical. On raceday, you’ll pay for jockey and pony (price depends on the track) plus likely you’ll be charged a fee by the trainer. When interviewing trainers, ask them what charges to expect beyond dayrate.
The best way to get started is to talk to trainers that meet your criteria and run at a track that you prefer. I think the most important thing is to find someone that you communicate well with. Make sure you’re on the same page regarding training methods, vetwork, and communication. A successful trainer won’t hesitate to tell you it’s not a good fit if it’s not.
Well, to start with, in order to have a horse that only runs in stakes or allowances, you’ll have to purchase a horse that has already proven he belongs in that company. So look to spend around $100k to start. Average costs for a good trainer at a good track will be (very rough wag here) around $2500 per month.
For what you are wanting, you’ll have to get a horse already running. There is no way you can buy a yearling, or even a 2 year old in training, and guarantee that he’ll be a stake or allowance horse.
A relative of mine who was very involved in horse racing was once interviewed on a news program (may have been the McNeil Leher News Hour; not sure). Anyway- they asked him what it cost to do the race horse thing. He told them, “To estimate what you will spend on race horses, first think of the largest amount of money you would EVER dream you might spend on racing in the worst possible scenario. Then multiply that number by three.”
10 points to anybody who knows who my relative is…
[QUOTE=kimball1;4660816]
… Not looking at all to get into low level claiming. We own our own facility, so if the horse need lay-up it would come home. We would also be able to take responsibility for retraining/placement when the horse needed to move into a different line of work. [/QUOTE]
Have you considered trying first the partnership route? There are many of them - from Cot Campbell’s Dogwood to West Point Thoroughbreds to Sackatoga Stable, etc and then you can find smaller largely-regional ones like Dare To Dream based in Chicago.
It depends what you want from being “in racing”. If it really comes down to watching the workout’s, being to say you’re an owner, have a good time with friends when your horse is running, visiting the shedrow, and maybe getting into the winner’s circle - all of that comes with the partnership deals.
Financially buying a 2-yr old in training for almost six-figures is great, hiring a trainer, paying for everying but one injury and that’s it. By comparison, as you can see from the ‘Dare’ partnership the entry price can be fairly cheap:
$3,895.00 PER 4.75% SHARE INTEREST*
(share price includes $8,000 expense reserve to cover expenses from February 2010 thru approx. April 2010); * Price will increase to $4,095.00 for shares purchased after 02/28/2010
Then again look at Tom McCarthy with General Quarters for a solo outfit which did pretty good although he’s one exception to a cost rule.
Just remember…9 times out of 10 you will be disappointed.
I generally try to sell mine as yearlings, but every so often I get ‘stuck’ with one. I have a just-turned-3 Even The Score colt in training now. I broke him myself, then sent him to a trainer in Ocala that was $75/day. Then I sent the colt to a trainer at PID who shortly thereafter moved to Churchill/Keeneland. While up there, my bills for that 1 horse were $3,700/month. $75/day rate, $300/month stall rent (not all charge stall rent on top, but some folks - like Pletcher - do), $300 vitamins (including a stomach buffer), $100+/month for Bodybuilder, $110 for shoes, then you have race day expenses - pony to post, lasix & adjunct ($50 if you pay on the spot, $60 otherwise), etc. Then on top of that your vet bills.
When Tampa opened, I moved him there (he’s a FL Bred anyway), and found a wonderful trainer who charges $60/day, $110 for shoes, $35 pony to post and that’s about it. As for the Vet, at Tampa I pay $18 for Lasix (not sure what the adjunct is as we haven’t used it), $60 a scope, then only $40 for any follow up scopes. So, it does kind of depend on what track you’re at.
As a side note. My colt got sick at PID and the vet charged $30 for each Baytril injection. My boyfriend is a vet and I know the baytril injections cost us around $12 wholesale. I don’t mind a little markup but when the colt went to Churchill, he was still on the Baytril and the vet (Dr. Lundquist) charged $48 an injection. When I called her and told her that I know what the shot cost them and that she’s charging $18 more PER INJECTION than the vet at PID, she said to me (direct quote) “Well, the owners at Churchill can afford to pay more than the type of owner at Presque Isle.” Lovely, eh?
Those are the types of things you’ll run into. If people think you have money, you may get taken for a ride, so watch your backside and find someone who’s light on the vet. The vets will stick it to you.
Given their recent demonstration of how they take care of their own, even years after they’ve been claimed away, I would suggest Karakorum Racing as a possibility. (Look in the Off Course forums, or PM me, for the story of how Karakorum Patriot got to Old Friends after ending up for overpriced sale at Finger Lakes.)
Unless you’ve got the money (six figures) to spring for a proven competitor, you don’t know if you’re going to have a stakes horse or a claimer–and even horses who manage a bit of success in allowance company can end up back in the claimers. (That’s where my Lucky came from–he ran out of conditions where he was competitive on turf and dropped down into dirt claimers until his trainer sold him off for a second career–and he was a fairly profitable horse as they go.)
How do people sleep at night? 
costs
pm sent
Partnerships are great for getting into the game but most are not cheap and the managers/operators generally “do racing” at the expense of the investors.
Someone mentioned Sackatoga Stable (the Funny Cide folks) above. They are not a public partnership, they are a group of friends that formed the stable and while they do sometimes invite new friends/business associates into the partnerships, they don’t offer their stock for sale to the general public.
Las Olas, if Pletcher is charging stall rent, he’s padding his day rate because unless the horse is at the Saratoga Training Center during the non-racing season, NYRA charges no stall rent. Todd does usually have 50-60 up here during the off season, and for those, a stall fee would be billed. You are quite right about vets fees varying by location. It’s assumed that the Churchill/Kee/NYRA people can and will pay more, so they get charged more. (It’s like showgrounds charging H/J folks 3x per stall what they charge the breed show folks.)
I know some of the Karakorum people and they do work hard to keep things moderate in price.
OP, where you get involved and at what level impacts your costs, just like the show world. There is no way to be sure that your horse will be a stakes horse. Only about 3% of the TB population will win a stakes race. I see $500k+ purchases running in claiming races every day. I also see proven stakes horse in for tags.
As in other horsey endeavors, “vet” your advisors and trainer very carefully. Ask alot of questions but once you are sure that the person is dealing honestly, let them do their job. (Race trainers become very annoyed with owners who ride/show etc because they often pop up with lots of unsolicited advice.)
Costs can be very high and frustrations abound. That said, standing in the winner’s circle with your horse is one of the greatest “highs” on Earth.
[QUOTE=kimball1;4660816]
Hi
stake and allowance type racing. Not looking at all to get into low level claiming. [/QUOTE]
Please invest in a partnership. I think you need to get your feet wet, before you dive into the deep end of the pool, with your clothes on.
[QUOTE=Linny;4661352]
Las Olas, if Pletcher is charging stall rent, he’s padding his day rate because unless the horse is at the Saratoga Training Center during the non-racing season, NYRA charges no stall rent. Todd does usually have 50-60 up here during the off season, and for those, a stall fee would be billed. [/QUOTE]
Pletcher doesn’t only run in New York. :lol: The horses he stables at Palm Meadows get charged stall rent.
[QUOTE=Linny;4661352]
Someone mentioned Sackatoga Stable (the Funny Cide folks) above. They are not a public partnership, they are a group of friends that formed the stable and while they do sometimes invite new friends/business associates into the partnerships, they don’t offer their stock for sale to the general public.[/QUOTE]
Actually per their website they are offering “Sackatoga Stable #5 LLC” to the public:
LLC 5 is currently open and partnership opportunities are available.
$10k get’s 2.262% of the LLC holdings (3 horses) and funds the mortality insurance, training for a defined period of time [until 10/2010], et al.
#4 LLC is closed with all shares made available since acquired. I believe the original partnership (which held Funny Cide) was indeed just the “bus” friends, however they’ve since expanded business just like investment funds do 
Since you’ve posted here, you’re liable to be getting a lot of PMs from people offering their services or their friends services. In your position of knowing nothing you are setting yourself up bigtime. As posters have mentioned, its a great idea getting your feet wet with a good partnership; there are many out there. You’ll have a lot more fun, and you’ll also get an idea if this is something you really want to do. It will be a terrific education.
Make a lot of phone calls first and talk to a lot of people regarding partnerships. Gets prospectuses send or emailed to you and study them first. Try and understand them; ask questions. It could be a lot of fun, if you’re VERY careful, and understand that your money going out probably won’t come back.
[QUOTE=halo;4661641]
Since you’ve posted here, you’re liable to be getting a lot of PMs from people offering their services or their friends services. In your position of knowing nothing you are setting yourself up bigtime. As posters have mentioned, its a great idea getting your feet wet with a good partnership; there are many out there. You’ll have a lot more fun, and you’ll also get an idea if this is something you really want to do. It will be a terrific education.
Make a lot of phone calls first and talk to a lot of people regarding partnerships. Gets prospectuses send or emailed to you and study them first. Try and understand them; ask questions. It could be a lot of fun, if you’re VERY careful, and understand that your money going out probably won’t come back.[/QUOTE]
I second this!!
Although, you are already involved with horse showing-so you are aware of the sometimes nefarious characters that frequent equine venues
Maybe I misunderstood the OP’s request. I took her to mean that she is looking to participate at a higher level than the lower claiming ranks - not necessarily a graded stakes contender, but a nice mid-level type - and is looking for a trainer that can facilitate that. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request - as long as she understands that her horse may not live up to expectations. If that’s the case, they can always sell him, get him claimed, etc. and start over. Or, simply have fun with what they’ve got. (That perspective tends to change once you’re in the game. ;)) If she were wanting to race in my area, I would definitely suggest a different group of trainers than if she were looking to have some fun with a bottom level horse and a minimal investment.
I also like halo’s post.
Just wanted to point out that nobody WANTS to only have cheap claimers, but cheap claimers HAPPEN. And claimers (even cheap ones) are not necessarily a bad thing, and most horses will end up there eventually, no matter how much you pay for them or what divisions they were previously competitive in. Some people do very well with claimers, and remain economic with them, and get a lot of enjoyment out of them.
Partnerships can be a good way to break into racing as an ower. However, there are drawbacks as well. You lose the ability to make decisions about your horse, other partners may want the horse to race with a warm shin, while you may wish it to be rested. Depends on what each partner feels about taking risks, and what they are comfortable with. It is rare that all partners agree totally, and most decisions are either made by the trainer (owner partners just pay the bills) or by one prominent member of the partnership. You just get to fund somebody else’s decisions. As long as you are OK with this, it might work for you. This method works well for people who have no horse knowledge at all.
Going it alone as a sole owner of a single horse, since you have your own facility and have some horse friendly knowledge may be more comfortable for you. Buying a proven animal will cost you money, substantial money, and there is no guarantee that the horse will still be at that level for his next start, he may not be, and he may never even earn back his purchase price for you, let alone his training fees and expenses. Since you are interested in more than one discipline and seem to have long term intersests for this horse, my suggestion would be to purchase an adequate youngster, either a yearling or two year old in training (my preferance would be a yearling), and start from scratch that way, since perhaps you can do some of the work yourself under supervision/advice from your trainer. Keep in mind what the average purse is at your local racetrack, and understand that a win at any level is better than no win at all. Don’t buy the most expensive yearling at the sale, but buy the most economic one. One who had not disqualified itself with injury or conformational flaw or a pedigree so dismal that lightening simply can not strike there at all, and wait for the horse to tell you just how good it is or isn’t. If it “isn’t,” pull the plug early (literally) and reschool for another discipline and try again. With luck, you may end up with a horse of average ability, who can win out some or all his conditions, pay his way and stay sound, and still be worth something after reschooling. If you get super lucky, you get one who can actually make some money and be a good one, the stake/allowance horse you (and everyone else) wants to own. If no luck, you still have a well conformed animal who has been treated and trained well even if he can’t run enough to win a race and can be sold still in one piece. Keep the horse’s long term intersts at heart. Many race owners can not/do not do this, and thus suffer economic drain, and their horses suffer the consequances.
Your best trick will be to find a trainer who has similar phylosophy towards horses as you do. Keep in mind that those huge training fees you will be charged bring very little income into that trainer, the trainer is dependant on your horse racing and earning money for him to truly profit much from his work with your horse. This puts pressure on your horse. Sometimes too much pressure, and pressure that you may not approve of or want. But without pressure, your horse will not make the grade and be competitive, nor have the potential to become successful. So expect a balancing act.
Find a way to access the backstretch of your racetrack, and make some friends back there. Talk to people. Watch. Read the racing form and attend the races. Get some feeling for the people involved in the sport in your area. You may find some people that you want to become involved with in the sport. Good luck.
Both halo and Nancy M have given you valuable advice. I’ll just add this: not every horse has the talent that you obviously desire but game cheap horses can be a lot of fun too. When you get involved and you are going for your first win, your perspective might change. Even the cheapest races usually have 6-10 other owners who want the win just as much as you do and any win is an accomplishment.
The old cliche about “owning your own sports franchise” has some validity. You may find yourself looking at the condition book, watching where your competition goes and trying get creative with the help of your trainer regarding placing your horse to do good. And when it all works and comes together, it really is like nothing else. Personally I have fun and make a little ritual out of hanging the picture on a victory wall.
Good luck!
I also would have recommended going the partnership route until I recently heard a pair of ownership stories–each one took place with a big and reputable racing partnership (one of which was mentioned above.)
In both cases, the people who bought into a partnership colt “hit the jackpot” so to speak. The colts went on to run at the highest levels, winnning multi-graded stakes over a several year career. Both colts were retired to stud at big farms.
In each case–and remember we’re talking best possible case here–the owners never had a single month where the horses’ earnings exceeded their expenses, ie they always got bill and never a check. So yes, they got the thrill of being part-owners of top winning horses. The owners were able to fly around to different tracks, enjoy the hospitality in various stakes rooms, and stand in many winners circles. But despite the horses’ success they never even broke even. Not once.
When the horses were retired to stud, the partnership group retained–on behalf of the partners–partial ownership in the horses. So even after the horses were off the track, the owners continued to receive bills for care, advertising, etc. They were each also given 2 shares in the horse–wonderful if you happen to own mares you want to breed to him, wonderful if the horse hits it big at stud and you are able to sell your shares for lots of money. Not so wonderful if you entered the partnership to race not breed, or if the horse turns out to be a dud as a stallion.
So just to say, a partnership can be a great way to get your feet wet but read everything carefully before signing. They, like full ownership, can be filled with pitfalls.
