Paragon,Who are you calling a terrible person?
Belle’s death was surely a tragic thing, but it is not like horses die every time there’s a race. Unfortunately, the Derby has been rather “unlucky” lately in terms of injured horses, and I’m assuming this spurred the OP’s rant. :no:
They do race almost exclusively on turf, but they are not started any later. What gave you that idea?
Yesterday the 2000 Guineas was run at Newmarket, 1 mile for three year olds.
The winner, Henrythenavigator had his first start on May 6th of his two year old year and ran 4 times as a two year old.
The second, New Approach has his first start on July 15th of his two year old year and ran 5 times as a two year old.
The third, Stubbs Art has his first start on May 24th of his two year old year and ran 6 times as a two year old.
The only horse in the race that didn’t start as a two year old was a 250/1 outsider that finished 14th of the 15 starters.
The race before the Guineas was a Group 3 race for fillies and mares ages 4 and up. All but one horse in that race also raced as two year olds.
[QUOTE=BLBGP;3186724]
While I don’t share the OP’s, um, passionate thought patterns, I do hate the argument “horses die all the time doing other stuff” as a justification for horses breaking down under saddle.[/QUOTE]
Word.
[QUOTE=horsedaughter;3188135]
Belle’s death was surely a tragic thing, but it is not like horses die every time there’s a race. Unfortunately, the Derby has been rather “unlucky” lately in terms of injured horses, and I’m assuming this spurred the OP’s rant. :no:[/QUOTE]
Race horses do die almost daily…the Triple Crown races are once a year and it’s the race the public is familiar with. While the OP comment is extreme, it isn’t something that should be ignored. This death is NOT bad luck…it is the nature of the sport. And that is another agrument altogether.
http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/ UK
http://scrollsequus.blogspot.com/ USA
http://fallenracehorsesaustralia.blogspot.com/ Australia
These lists are NOT exhaustive. These are only the horses that somebody made note of. I know I read about horses dying at a lesser known track and the exercise rider posts about it, or the groom…otherwise it goes unnoticed.
I defy you to find a better horeman that Larry Jones. Several horses have competed in the Derby having never run 9f. The filly ran second. She beat 18 colts yesterday and you say she was ill prepared! Monba (Blue Grass winner trained by the vaunted Todd Pletcher) was about 30 lengths behind her. Who was poorly prepared? The owner decided to run in the Derby, not Jones. (The filly who won the Oaks has a different owner.)
I’d have liked the filly better had she had a prep at 9f or against males but she sure ran a big race. She outran my expectations and I was thrilled for her. You don’t run that kind of a race in the KENTUCKY DERBYif you are ill prepared.
My big thing with (TB) racing is that they don’t take enough time to condition their horses properly. If they would do so, there would be less horses breaking down. Horses are treated as a commodity, and when one doesn’t work out they throw that one away and reach for another, and so forth. However, if they were to condition properly, they wouldn’t need to go through this never ending cycle. But hey, time is money, and money is all people care about, right?
Table 1: Average time course for structural and physiological adaptations to exercise training in horses.
Adaptation - Time Course
Increase in VO2 MAX - 1 - 2 weeks
Increase in plasma volume -1 - 2 weeks
Improved sweating response - 1 - 2 weeks
Increase in red blood cells & haemoglobin - 2 - 4 months
Increase in muscle capillaries - 3 - 6 months
Increase in muscle mitochondria - 4 - 6 months
Increase in muscle aerobic enzymes - 4 - 6 months
Increase in bone density* - 4 - 6 months
Strengthening of tendons and ligaments* - 4 - 6 months
*Available research on training adaptations of supporting structures is limited.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/hrs6942
From Deb Bennett’s Ranger piece:
The Schedule of Growth-Plate Conversion to Bone
Short pastern - top and bottom between birth and 6 months
Long pastern - top and bottom between 6 months and one year
Cannon bone - top and bottom between 8 months and 1.5 years
Small bones of the knee - top and bottom of each, between 1.5 and 2.5 years
Bottom of radius-ulna - between 2 and 2.5 years
Weight-bearing portion of glenoid notch at top of radius - between 2.5 and 3 years
Humerus - top and bottom, between 3 and 3.5 years
Scapula - glenoid or bottom (weight-bearing) portion – between
Every single discipline is asking a horse to do something for human benefit. We want to win, we want adrenaline, we want to feel a connection to another being, etc.
Whatever reason it is, these sports were developed and engineered for our enjoyment. How strange that we as animals have evolved to have such peculiar traits. We take a wild animal, domesticate it for our use, and then continue to morph the use of the horse into something drastically different.
Regardless of what anyone says. Horses are most productive eating grass,which in turn spreads seeds as they roam freely and fertilize those seeds with manure. They provide meat for predators higher up on the food chain. That is the only thing the horse was meant to do on this planet. As horses are no longer allowed to do what comes natural,(land use, space issues) we have developed a different life plan for them. Should we accept this and move on? I can’t get over our human need to dominate. I think that is what disturbs me the most. We dominate these creatures and then try desperately to say they like all the things we make them do.
There are no easy answers. I am just expressing one side of the story. I ride horses everyday and I struggle with my decision to use them for my pleasure.
You just can’t love Thoroughbreds and hate the race track. My hunter is brave and forward and has great work ethic because he was bred to be that way. My WB can translate his strength into agility because of his TB grandfather. The track produces that. How can we change the racing industry to be less fatalistic about the loss of horses to the game? What if a trainer was fined or suspended when a horse broke down, or a breeder when a certain bloodline showed a percentage of breakdowns? I’m just brainstorming-not sure how realistic any of that would be. Somebody needs to pay besides the horses.
[QUOTE=lesson junkie;3188249]
What if a trainer was fined or suspended when a horse broke down, or a breeder when a certain bloodline showed a percentage of breakdowns? I’m just brainstorming-not sure how realistic any of that would be. Somebody needs to pay besides the horses.[/QUOTE]
I’ve always been in favor of $10 per start fee (I think some jurisdictions already do this). It would weed out some of the real low-lifes who have no money, but run horses. Each track would generate $900 per day toward the cause. Probably wouldn’t save every horse, but it would be a pretty nice start.
The bigger problem is every jurisdiction is out on their own. Another major problem with racing…there’s no uniformity. Every time you ship out of town in the Mid-Atlantic you have to read the entire condition book from the other track to make sure you aren’t missing anything (and even then some crappy rules are even printed inthe condition book).
He’s certainly the only trainer I am aware of from yesterday’s Derby who regularly climbed on his horse’s back. I came to this thread not to address the groundswell of emotion after the race, most of which I suspect is honestly held and understandable, but to remember the filly herself. Not only the great performance she gave that will be her legacy but also the clip of Larry Jones’ last ride “Earth to Eight Belles”. Thinking of it still makes me smile albeit a little wistfully.
That’s why it’s so crushing. The horses are happy because they’re well cared for. But even being well cared for, the “poor race horse” does have NO choice. They’re happy until both their ankles break and they fall to the ground.
Happy is a relative term isn’t it. Let’s see…their childhood is taken away and they are put into childhood labor for as much as they can tolerate and although they are fed well and receive all the veterinary care they need, they do not get regular turnout or are allowed to be natural horses in any way. How would you like this sort of life as a human??
They indeed have no choice - they are forced to perform for their humans and in too many race horse cases , the owner’s greed causes harm to the horse.
Just feeding and providing medical care is NOT enough to create a happy horse and being exposed to numerous TBs that were rescued off the track confirms this to me. Most have bad behavioral issues and they tend to ping out of their brains for a while thanks to the diet and drugs they have been on while in training.
Yeah, sure, I can certainly see the “happy” horse here that now after being used and abused by so called loving and caring owners/breeders, is being tossed aside when it no longer earns money, or because it is broken down now (most have had career ending injuries - incorrect conditioning training? Anyone??). There are some exceptions of course when it comes to owners, but they should be the norm, not the exception. Perhaps some owners should be legally forced to increase their horses’ overall well-being (no training/racing before horses are fully mature, etc.) and providing a loving home for them when they can no longer race!
Anyone who denies such facts is not facing the true reality of racing.
[QUOTE=Pronzini;3188270]
He’s certainly the only trainer I am aware of from yesterday’s Derby who regularly climbed on his horse’s back…[/QUOTE]
That’s definately not true.
I wonder how many different, varied, and creative new ways we can think of to place blame?
I’m seeing some new ones in this thread. Very interesting.
There are others who galloped their horses? I’ve seen Pletcher on pony horses–he gets up on Monba? I know Eoin Harty wasn’t riding Colonel John and I can’t see Dutrow on Big Brown…
Go the F@#$ away!
Sure they have a choice. They don’t run. I’ve had two TBs who NEVER started, they weren’t tattooed. The older one lasted 4 months with a race trainer. The younger one sold at Keeneland as a yearling, was shipped west and no saled twice out here in the sales, was then basically given to someone as a flip horse, she had him 4 months and did nothing with him and I bought him when he was about two and a half.
If they don’t want to run they don’t.
People don’t fully mature in their brains until they are in their 20’s, bodies in their late teens. Horses mature much sooner than people and don’t live to be 80 even in the best circumstances, you can not compare a horse to a person of the same age. Horses don’t have a “childhood”.
I am actually finding myself getting angry with some of the posts on these threads about Eight Belles. How can you guys say these horses are ill prepared? At THIS level of racing these horses are treated better than the President, than Bill Gates, than any top level sports star. These horses are the bread and butter for a HUGE string of people. The owners, the trainers, the exercise riders, the jocks, the grooms - you can not say any one of the horses running yesterday were running simply out of greed.
Yes, you always have your long shots but they are not long shots because they are ill prepared-they are long shots because they aren’t bred as well, they haven’t proven themselves, etc. Plus, there is no STANDARD in race training. Maybe that’s where we go wrong.
Each trainer has their own way. Each owner has their own expectations. Some owners are more willing to go with what a trainer has planned but some are not. Because everyone does things differently some horses have a more specific path to the triple crown races where others end up there almost by accident. Still though, mistakes happen. Even top human athletes overface themselves at times (and they know better!). A trainer does his/her best to prepare the horse the way they think the horse needs prepared. Maybe that’s not the right way for that particular horse. Maybe it is right. Big Brown seemed to come through just fine. Would Eight Belles have been better if she trained exactly like him?? Most likely not as I’m sure his workouts wouldn’t suit her style.
We need to look at the bigger picture here. This is just like any other riding discipline. There are the top levels, the mid levels, and the bottom levels. You find more of these: :eek: at the bottom levels. Usually dangerous riding, dangerous horses (because they get the upper hand which never works well with a novice horse person). Injuries to riders are usually more prevalent at this level. Horses often suffer greater tragedy due to negligence and greed. Then there are the mid levels where all seems well. The horses are not pushed to the max, riders are pretty capable so all seems more like this: 
There are some injuries but farther and fewer between are life threatening-maybe career ending though. Then there are the top levels where riders and horses are pushed to be the best of the best. The chance of catastrophe is much greater at this level. Usually this involves media coverage. You see much more of this: :no:
Thing is, you see this: :no: in all professional sports. I’ve watched football and hockey players train, exercise and be the fittest people on the planet. However they still suffer ridiculous injuries that were beyond their control. Sh*t does happen. Yes, we take precautions to ensure we limit the risk but fact of the matter is-we can not eliminate it. Driving down the road to the grocery store brings risk into our lives. Our cars are built to try and protect us - doesn’t always work.
Biggest thing to remember here is this is a sport. The sport is risky. The top levels pose challenges. If any of you have watched horse racing even limitedly over the years you’d know many changes have been made and many are still in the works. One big thing often discussed is if the triple crown is too demanding. The sad way of thinking in this world is that it takes death to bring about change. That goes for all aspects of life. I’m sure more changes will be discussed and it’s a shame such a lovely filly’s death may be the only way some of those changes take place.
Another thing is that we live and learn. We do one thing one way because we think it’s right. When we often have to suffer to find better ways. A trainer may do things different once he encounters a problem but until there is a problem it would seem all is well with their methods. It’s the trainers, or heck any person really, that doesn’t learn from their mistakes or even straight up accidents that couldn’t be prevented no matter what, that we need to take fault with.
There are a long list of folks involved with getting that race run yesterday and it’s likely they are all to blame but none of them are to blame at the same time. Please do not point fingers but rather take your anger/saddness and put it towards making suggestions for a better, safer means of getting the job done. If you can’t do that or don’t want to be bothered, then remember you can change the channel on your TV and not watch the handful of televised races a year. Just go back to living in your bubbles assuming all is well with the world.
If they are treated that well, as you claim, and are being properly conditioned, then how come this filly comes down with bilateral breaks in the same area?? You can bet your hiny that those are going to be identified as stress fractures, that, as we all know by now, are usually caused by incorrect conditioning.
I will give you this much - diet and meds can potentially also cause a weakening of the bones because a diet high in starches and sugars, which is a typical race horse diet, raises the acidity levels in the blood when the healthy PH is more alkaline. In order to correct this imbalance, the body CAN and WILL pull calcium from the bones. if this happens in excess guess what you get? And some meds may have a contributing effect.
Honestly aks yourself the question - would you really, really like to live a life of a racehorse, with sugary feeds that cause ulcers and other problems, meds with all sorts of annoying side effects , all and hard work and very, very little play and physical contact with your own kind?
Threat your horse like you would like to be treated!
Galileo said:
They do race almost exclusively on turf, but they are not started any later. What gave you that idea?
Some European people I know told me that they were usually not started until their third year. I thought they probably knew, but thanks for the correction.
