Radiographs Front Feet

[Feldspar21]

These are radiographs of an 18 year old Morgan cross that has had some soundness issues in his front end, beginning about a month-month and a half ago. Any opinions on them?

Background:

• history of some “wonkyness” in hind end (has always tended to be very slightly short RH as long as I’ve had him), I would not classify as “lame” ever. You would only notice if you stare too hard. Sometimes a bit worse, improved significantly after injecting stifles last year
• no history of front end stuff previously
• had sports med vet out to do stifles again this year. She watched him go on the lunge line and saw a little LF but quite mild (this was on our VERY forgiving footing). She asked to see him on hard ground- went around and was significantly lame LF in both directions (head bobbing significantly). felt legs/digital pulse/feet- nothing significant.
• Plan: Drew blood for Cushings (to see if we can inject with steroid- it’s neg), put him on Equioxx, keep an eye on him and change activity level accordingly. Inject stifles and coffins next time she was out. She mentioned in her notes that he hadn’t had any foot radiographs so I said to myself “well, why not”
• had general vet take front foot radiographs when they were out to check general hoof balance and see if anything jumped out. Consensus was “looks good”, and also “I’m concerned about the rings on your horses hoof wall” (externally). This is a somewhat newer development, he’s always had some rings (he’s been through a lot of changes, but no major ones other than seasonal the past year), but rings have become a lot more pronounced/there are more of them. He goes out on night turnout on some grass (not a huge paddock though), and I started putting a grazing muzzle on him because it was coming in quite lush and he was gorging himself (no other paddock options) This was pre-lameness. There currently doesn’t seem to be any relation but we’re playing it safe with grazing muzzle and low sugar diet. BCS is good, no crest. Just the rings.

*Please don’t tell me to talk to my vet. I am working with vets. But was only able to get a one sentence summary from the general practice vet who took them, and won’t be able to discuss with sports med vet for a few more weeks. And I like to learn things, and learn what questions to ask, etc etc, and expect others do too!

[SummerRose]

I’m no expert on rads so I won’t comment.

But maybe adding another post with more info might help? I understand the risk that putting too much info up might allow people to dive into completely irrelevant and/or inaccurate rabbitholes, but maybe photos of the hooves and videos of him moving might give the knowledgeable folks more clues.

In any case, thanks for posting! I’m always eager to see what I can learn from the comments on the health threads.

[mmeqcenter]

I’m curious first why you decided to go with rads of the feet? Did the vet do flexions and/or blocks to pinpoint the general location of the lameness? Or was it just because of the hard vs soft ground lameness?

I know that lame on hard ground is an indicator for laminitis, but without any other symptoms and nothing glaring on the radiographs (I’m not an expert, but the angle looks fine and the coffin bone isn’t sinking), lameness that is worse on hard ground can indicate a bone issue elsewhere in the leg. Arthritis, fracture, etc. Hard ground often points to a bone-related issue, but I have known horses that presented more lame on hard ground due to a soft tissue injury.

[Feldspar21]

I can get some pics of his feet and try for some video. What else might be relevant?

The hind end stuff has been a thing with him. He doesn’t have the best hind end conformation and his father had some stifle issues later in life, so this is all expected and stifle injections seem to be helping him out sufficiently for now.

The front end thing is new. I’m not quite sure what to make of it.

[Feldspar21]

I decided to get rads of the feet just because he had never had them done before. The lameness + the rings + generally wanting to make sure farrier angles were good + just wanting to make sure there were no surprises/changes in there. I figured why not, couldn’t hurt anything.

The exam was watching him go in the arena and on the hard ground, feeling his feet/digital pulse, and palpating the legs. We didn’t flex or block the front end. The sports med vet seemed to think that was all she needed and Equioxx + coffin joints + stifles would be beneficial to him at this point.
I also discussed the lameness with the farrier who was pro-rads to confirm there was nothing obvious, and who suggested we do leather pads with a 1 degree wedge just to give him a tiny bit of something and to reduce any foot soreness possibility, but not do anything at all drastic at that point unless it was demonstrated it would be helpful with rads. We also added hind shoes (regular) upon separate suggestions from both vet (support for hind end things) and farrier (he’s been watching the hinds and mentioning they were getting short/worn and may appreciate shoes at some point down the line for a few cycles)

[Feldspar21]

An addition: he was on Equioxx for a couple weeks and in light-normal work with shoeing changes (went from the plain front shoes to 4 shoes with a leather pad and 1 degree in heel on fronts). The addition of Equioxx didn’t seem to do anything when I took a look at him after 4 days. The shoeing changes also didn’t have a big effect on him after evaluating after a few days.
After a couple weeks, I took him off Equioxx, just to see if he was worse. I kept him off of it for 4-5 days and he’s actually better on the hard ground now than he was after the initial “it’s been a few days on Equioxx let’s see” and “it’s been a few days since shoeing, let’s see” evals. Not too sure why that would be

[SummerRose]

Given that he’s been NQR on the RH behind for years, it seems likely that whatever is going on there will eventually affect the LF. The two issues could be completely unrelated but I’d start looking at that as the most likely culprit, then look elsewhere once you’ve ruled that out. (While taking precautions with his diet, of course.)

Is his muscling symmetrical? If you look at him from behind, is there any asymmetry in his hips? Or from the front, any asymmetry in his shoulders? Either in muscling or in terms of the points of the hips and the points of his shoulders being level? Any back soreness?

I think the main additional thing that would be helpful for useful input would be videos.

[Feldspar21]

No major differences in muscling that I’ve noticed but I’ll certainly take a good look. As with just about any horse, he has his better direction. He prefers bending left over right, and prefers his left lead over his right. However if ridden correctly he will pick up right lead first try 99.9% of the time and he will bend right fine. No back soreness.

[IPEsq]

I think with lameness on hard ground and nothing glaring on these radiographs, I’d take solar and navicular views. Best if shoes are removed. You can block the foot first to confirm it’s coming from the foot.

[WavyRider]

I just want to add: my horse foundered after receiving steroids, and his Cushings tests (both standard and TRH stim) were negative. He has multiple indications of Equine Metabolic Syndrome / Insulin Resistance but has not had a “positive” blood test to date. If there is a question of EMS/IR with your horse, I would strongly caution against steroids and consider using Arthramid, Noltrex, PRP, or another non-steroidal option.

Edit: I would especially caution against it with the rings in the hoof. Event lines can be caused by anything but they usually make me suspect some kind of metabolic involvement. What is his current diet, in addition to pasture?

[Feldspar21]

Thanks for adding your experience. It’s something I’m concerned with. Financially I’m not sure what else I’m going to be able to do, I’ll need to discuss with the vet. I’ve had a LOT of bills recently, horse and non-horse related and so this is a little limiting for me at the moment.
We did the TRH Stim test, and he had a value of 12 baseline, 21 post-TRH (<110 is negative). He has a good BCS, no crest, buuuuut he’s a Morgan and he has rings, so I’m nervous about it too.

He gets 1 qt Triple Crown Gold Balancer AM + PM. He also gets supplemental Vitamin E + California Trace (1/2 dose). He’s on whatever first cut hay the barn gets in- about 5-7 flakes/day depending on size (AM, PM, night check, more if he’s in due to weather), and whatever grass he can get through his grazing muzzle in turnout (which I don’t suspect it’s much, the grass is pretty mowed down by his pasture mates by now)

[JB]

@Feldspar21

He gets 1 qt Triple Crown Gold Balancer AM + PM

2qt is 2.5lb, which is a lot for what I assume, given a Morgan, is not a terribly large horse. What does he weigh?

[Feldspar21]

He’s 16.1, I’m not 100% sure how much he weighs but he’s crossed with friesian so he’s a unit. Is this the incorrect amount of balancer?

[JB]

So he’s not a Morgan, he’s a Morgan x Friesian?

“Horses in moderate to high levels of activity” are listed as 1.5-2lb. 2.5lb probably isn’t harmful, just likely wasted nutrition, especially since you’re also adding a 1/2 serving of CT.

I’m looking forward to pics of the actual feet, especially to see the rings you refer to. I don’t see them on the xrays, so they may be more related to how he’s trimmed each time, rather than a diet or metabolic issue.

[Feldspar21]

He is 3/4 Morgan, 1/4 Friesian to be specific. Good to know about the wasted nutrition. I might as well cut that back then I suppose. He’s supposed to be in a full program and in a lot more work than he is but my own schedule + his issues of late have decreased his activity. I’ll definitely get the foot pics. My farrier sands nearly the whole hoof wall lightly so I don’t think they will be as visible in the pics as they really are. But I’ll try!

[Scribbler]

@Feldspar21

He is 3/4 Morgan, 1/4 Friesian to be specific. Good to know about the wasted nutrition. I might as well cut that back then I suppose. He’s supposed to be in a full program and in a lot more work than he is but my own schedule + his issues of late have decreased his activity. I’ll definitely get the foot pics. My farrier sands nearly the whole hoof wall lightly so I don’t think they will be as visible in the pics as they really are. But I’ll try!

That’s a red flag in a farrier. You do not want to remove the outer layer of the hoof for cosmetic reasons.

[Feldspar21]

I won’t comment on whether it’s good or bad, but I will say just about every farrier I’ve seen shoe horses at any of the “show barns” around here buffs the outer layer off, puts something in nail holes and then paints the hoof. I don’t know exactly what they’re doing or why, but I’ve watched probably 4-5 different farriers follow this at the barns I’ve been at/worked at.

[Scribbler]

@Feldspar21

I won’t comment on whether it’s good or bad, but I will say just about every farrier I’ve seen shoe horses at any of the “show barns” around here buffs the outer layer off, puts something in nail holes and then paints the hoof. I don’t know exactly what they’re doing or why, but I’ve watched probably 4-5 different farriers follow this at the barns I’ve been at/worked at.

Just because it’s common practice within a given show discipline doesn’t mean it’s healthy or good for the feet. I would ask the farrier to stop.

It’s bad because it takes off the outer layer that regulates moisture and weakens the hoof. Maybe just a little, but it’s not good. This is not done to performance horses, like dressage or jumping. Maybe it’s a breed show or saddleseat thing. I’ve never seen it done IRL but heard about it.

[Feldspar21]

It could be breed specific as well but where I’ve seen it being done was at a hunter barn and currently an FEI dressage barn + eventing (stalls are leased out to a different professional, so different disciplines and several different farriers at this place) shrugs good to know about it not being good for the hoof though! What is commonplace isn’t always best…

[Scribbler]

@Feldspar21

It could be breed specific as well but where I’ve seen it being done was at a hunter barn and currently an FEI dressage barn + eventing (stalls are leased out to a different professional, so different disciplines and several different farriers at this place) shrugs good to know about it not being good for the hoof though! What is commonplace isn’t always best…

I’m quite surprised it’s being done on performance horses. Who need all the foot they can get. Stop it on your horse at any rate.