RAO quality of life

[Djones]

How do you think about quality of life with chronic conditions?

This 22 year old has been mine for 18 years. He lives outside on pasture or a dry lot. He eats hay and modest amounts of hard feed, all of which are cleared for allergies.

I’m in Alabama where it hasn’t rained in weeks. He’s getting nebulized 2x day with dex and albuterol. I feel like I’m getting him closer to comfortable each time, but most days he’s presenting as flared and at least somewhat crackly when i listen to breathing.

Yesterday he sounded clear so we took a little ride. He was happy to be out. He dove for grass on breaks and was ok. He got excited coming home and that became a roaring mess. He looked so uncomfortable. Treated him and honesty probably could have skipped it as he sounded good again even before I got back to him with his treatment. But he looked dull and worn after. Today it’s about 15 hours later and he sounds terrible again and looks dull.

He doesn’t have a heave line.

He has a great appetite.

I just miss my vibrant, energetic monster of a horse. I feel bad for this crackly shadow of him.

[jherold]

I think it’s probably time. This sounds like a chronic condition that will only get worse. I’d let him go. God is not a bad owner. Hugs.

[KBC]

@jherold

God is not a bad owner.

Not heard that one before, oh so true.

I can’t remember who it was here said

“We owe our horses a good life, and when that’s no longer possible we owe them a good death”

Struggling to breathe is horrible, and wearing, don’t wait until the struggle is non ending, love him enough to let him go.

Hugs.

[SusanO]

My old pony that had pasture heaves so bad - did better when the air was dry. The dust did not bother him but it sounds like your guy is the opposite. And he got better after we had our first frost. But I have had two mini frosts so I assume you have had frost too. So winter weather might not improve his breathing. Maybe re-evaluate after we get a good rain to damp things down. If it ever rains here again. Making that decision is so hard. Easy to give advice but hard to do it yourself.

[Djones]

I need to start documenting his days.

The effort to do all of this 2x a day and clean the nebulizer 2x a day just means this is never not on my mind.

20241019_113134

[3PonyFarm]

I am so sorry you are going through this with your horse.

[Posting_Trot]

I don’t have any additional wisdom for you, but I want to applaud your wanting to do the best you can for your horse.

[Djones]

He sounds like a million dollars tonight. Joker! Horses being horses.

[RedHorses]

Three years ago I was expecting to be seriously considering euthanizing my senior this past spring (2024). In 2021 his best breath rate during his heaves season was 20 breaths per minute - that’s best, after all the things I could do had been done. His lungs were noisy, and I had used four bottles of his emergency meds that year.

In 2020 his best breath rate was 18. In 2019 it was 16. He needed more medication each year, and I wasn’t going to wait until the hot summer day when he couldn’t get enough oxygen before I called the vet for euthanasia.

Projecting forward, 2024 would see a best breath rate of 26 breaths per minute, and the maximum dosage of his medication, leaving no room for helping him on bad days. How he did in 2023 would have given me the information I needed to make the decision. He does well in the winter so my plan was to give him the comfortable winter season, support him through early spring, and let him go before he started to struggle with the hot weather.

Fortunately for me the Hail Mary experiment with the Bemer system paid off, and I now think it’s going to be something other than his breathing that brings about his end.

[paintedpennypony]

Interesting and glad to hear he is doing well! How did Bemer help?

[TWH_Girl]

I would say it’s time when he is starting to have more bad days than good, or he doesn’t rebound back like he has been. There’s really no wrong answer when it’s a chronic illness.

[RedHorses]

I’m getting a 403 error when I try to post. I split my reply and still got the error. Let’s see if this works.

It did, but I got another 403 error trying my post again. I’ll try again later.

[MsM]

This is when you hope you have a good, frank, relationship with your vet. S/he can help you understand if and when he is in distress.

Certainly it doesnt seem as if you will get him back to vibrant and energetic. But there is room in there for peaceful and content if he can be maintained as lacking exercise capacity, but fine as a pasture potato. You seemed to have found out that you cant add in exercise even on a good day.

But if the vet sees this as distressing him and causing a poor QOL, then you know what you must do.

And your needs count too. If he will require increasing time and money just to delay the inevitable, it is fine for you to set limits on what you are willing and able to do.

[FitToBeTied]

My horse is 22 and was diagnosed with that about 8 years ago. At the beginning he got fluticisone (sp) and albuteral (sp) daily until it cleared up. After that he has been kept on daily fluticisone. He foxhunted first flight for seven years after the diagnosis. On fox hunting mornings I gave him the albuteral. Both drugs are administered by an inhaler.

We also steam his hay with a haygain steamer.

He is retired from hunting and we can tell hot humid days are tougher. But we still ride but just walk trot.

[beau159]

@Djones

How do you think about quality of life with chronic conditions?

This 22 year old has been mine for 18 years. He lives outside on pasture or a dry lot. He eats hay and modest amounts of hard feed, all of which are cleared for allergies.

I’m in Alabama where it hasn’t rained in weeks. He’s getting nebulized 2x day with dex and albuterol. I feel like I’m getting him closer to comfortable each time, but most days he’s presenting as flared and at least somewhat crackly when i listen to breathing.

Yesterday he sounded clear so we took a little ride. He was happy to be out. He dove for grass on breaks and was ok. He got excited coming home and that became a roaring mess. He looked so uncomfortable. Treated him and honesty probably could have skipped it as he sounded good again even before I got back to him with his treatment. But he looked dull and worn after. Today it’s about 15 hours later and he sounds terrible again and looks dull.

He doesn’t have a heave line.

He has a great appetite.

I just miss my vibrant, energetic monster of a horse. I feel bad for this crackly shadow of him.

Have you ever tried different meds than dex and albuterol?

My horse (I feel) has done very well on Apha2EQ in addition to some of the traditional nebulized meds.

You could also add something like ipratropium (if okay by your vet) if he’s sounding like he has stuff in there he needs to clear out.

When my horse has a bad flare and/or I know she is going to be in an environment that will create a flare, I give her an IM shot of dex. I hate using steroids but I also know when she is going to NEED them. If I can stay ahead of a breathing issue, of course, that’s better.

[Djones]

@beau159

Apha2EQ

alpha2EQ is a joint medication?

[sascha]

@Djones

He doesn’t have a heave line.

Upon diagnosis of asthma, I tried just about all the things for my mare, none of which touched her. She ended up with a nasty sinus infection (Strep Zoo.) that we hit hard with ABX and she got a bit better. Still, nebulizer, drugs, etc. didn’t seem to touch her lungs. The the infection came back and we treated again. It came back a third time and the vet was only willing to give two rounds of meds. Yes, she seemed better, but I had a niggling feeling and I called in every favour from everyone I had ever done a favour for and hit her HARD for MONTHS with ABX (without the blessing of my vet, obv. lol) from wherever I could get them.

Knock on wood, my asthmatic horse (with also no heave line like yours) has been pretty darned good ever since that marathon of antibiotics (Uniprim seemed to be the one that worked best to finally kill everything off) and although I am still cross my fingers and watch the weather, I would gladly load her up and take her on a couple hour walking hack in a hilly forest on a not too hot or muggy day.

Two summers ago I was this || close to putting her down because she was so unhappy that she couldn’t even comfortably take a 10 minute tack walk around the farm.

I’m not saying any of this possibly completely whack treatment (which also includes ALL the supplements - chondroitin, glucosamine, msm, jiaogulan) may work for your horse, but am sharing because the ‘no heave line’ thing struck a chord and you never know.

I suppose what I am saying, is if there is anything (even completely whack) that you haven’t tried yet and want to give one last kick at it, go for it. However, if you feel you’ve reached the end of being able to increase your horse’s comfort for a meaningful length of time, it’s probably time for a last vet call

[Djones]

I have a call in to my vet, and I trust her. He’ll get anything that’s possible. I want her eyes on him and more input before I do something I can’t undo.

[sascha]

Beautiful I hope you find a hail Mary, and if not, know that you tried everything.

[RedHorses]

There was one year in late September my horse was struggling with his breathing. After increasing his Prednisolone and Hydroxyzine, and giving him Ventipulmin for three days I called the vet and basically said he’s not responding to medication the way he usually does. It turned out he was trying to develop pneumonia. I’d caught it early and he responded very quickly to the new medications. A sudden change in condition or response to meds can be more than just heaves.