Thanks Pintofoal for that speach ! Quality should be the goal, interesting color is the icing on the cake.
I also enjoyed this thread. I learned some things e.g. Sabino pattern in my ordinary hanoverian horses.
mumble, mumble but still - I am a breeder that has one of the first known about hanoverian Sabinos…mumble mumble … 
Alexandra
I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
another of him
MAHAL
Little Indian - he is STUNNING! Wowzer - how old is he ?
GGold - you are correct - the smokey black is GG’s kid Your picture is the later one - the one I posted was him literally as he popped out, still wet!
Norsire - I will literally shoot Nikita. NO ONE was supposed to know about this foal - thats why I never posted her on my web site 
Now the cat is out of the bag … 
“Spot”
OK, I agree this is all very strange and I don’t mean to get anyone on a tither, but in my opion the pics of a lot of these guys look like lab rats we used to have to raise. Sort of gives me the willies. Before you get mad, I have a point about that. Those rats, all very white and pink (I will not venture to call them any certain color) were very inbred and could be bred to show a multitude of detrimental, even lethal genes / alleles. Many of these genes go along with the expression of “rare” phynotypes (outward looks, not genetic structure) Is there any evidence to suggest that some of the “rare” colors, when they occur or becasue they are ocurring more often due to more selective breeding are also expressing detrimental genes like deformities, propensity for certain diseases or cancers, etc. It would just scare me to breed something so rare, maybe nature is not so dumb. I love colored horses, so I am not of that argument, color and “looks” are the first thing I notice but it is probably the last thing I really look at. There is a “theory” about why people prefer horses like bay & brown is b/c those are dominant colors and thus are horses that carry more desirable traits that have been selected for. I am not one to agree with that theory but it is out there. Anyone know of info about “recessive” color expression with other genotypic and phenotypic traits that are expressed when these rare events occur
Okay guys, let’s go ahead… let’s change genetics lol
Found an interesting website:
http://www.cremello.co.uk/welframe.htm
-> then go to “members”
-> scroll down until you can see the picture of a foal lying in the straw.
It’s a posting from a Mrs Jane Bohan, eastern North Carolina.
Te text originally posted by Mrs Jane Bohan:
My husband and I run a small horse farm in eastern NC. We have had our first Cremello; which was supposed to be a palomino, but may be one that broke the rules. She has pink skin, 2 blue eyes, and is VERY, VERY light; beautiful. Her dam is a Barlink mare which have been known to “hide” a creme gene in a chestnut.
Well, after reading and re-reading all postings to this topic, I learned that it is NOT possible to bred a cremello out of a chestnut mare???
Soooooo, guys, and WHY is that foal a cremello???
I am curious to read your answers to this “impossible” cremello foal.
Have a great day
Sonja
I don’t know if this will help any, but a few days ago I posted about this article:
http://www.thehorse.com/news.asp?fid=4246
Does the identification of this gene not assist in determining whether or not a horse would be considered one or the other?
Just asking, I’m totally ignorant to color genetics. 
Life without horses is possible, but pointless…
Thank you for all people where interested in my rarity German Warmblood foal.
MAHAL
Home of Mahal
exclusively colored German Warmblood
horses with world class bloodline
www.coloredfoals.com
First of all, why am I listed as “working hunter”?
I actually don’t own Rou. I sold him as a 5 month old colt. He was born a very light and silvery color of palomino with very light hazel eyes. He had an odd silver tone to his coat that increased until I shipped him to Oregon at 7 months old. He did NOT have the typical white hairs around his eyes that are typical of greying horses when they are young. His mane and tail remained predominantly white until 2 or 3 years old.
After it became evident that his color was appearing more grey over time, I just assumed that the white hairs were not as evident due to his light body color.
Anriejetto was a very typical grey, lightening with each year, but I don’t know his base color.
Gold Apollo was very typical palomino at a younger age, but as he matured he developed darker chocolate toned dapples and a silverish mane. However, I don’t believe TBs carry silver dapple and I don’t think coloring could have been taken for silver dapple either.
Rou’s dam is very typical deep palomino, almost orange in the winter. Her dam was a liver chestnut, who I owned as well.
I have suggested genetic testing, but it falls on deaf ears. He has since been sold to a dressage rider who may geld him anyway. It seemed strange to me that if Rou is such an unusual color that his color warmblood breeder owner would not have wanted to keep him. He was a fantastic mover and nearly 17 hands and supposedly a rare color.
Rou did produce a few cremes and palominos but maybe they are too young yet to tell. Rou didn’t grey much until age 2 or 3.
Weird!
Chris
Ladybug Hill–Hunters and Ponies
Specializing in Palomino TBs
Thanks, I can’t take credit for breeding her, she’s by Masqueraide, and her dam was sired by Gold Apollo and is out of a Trakehner mare. I was just lucky enough to be able to buy her, she’s a real sweetie. I’ve looked for years to find a tall, English-type double dilute mare/filly. I’m hoping to breed her to warmblood stallions for dilute-color hunter babies…
Daydream Believer you are correct on the Medicine Hat, but since nobody could convince Mahal about her Palomino not being a Perlino, how will you convince her now that her Medicine Hat is no Medicine Hat at all? He is a tovero (Sabino and Tobiano), but Medicine Hats do only have the hat on and do not have any connections to face markings at all like this colt has on the whole left side. Also the light buckskin colt Brisco is a greyed out Buckskin and Marfil is a greyed out Palomino. I don’t know why it is so difficult to agree on the correct descriptions. Doesn’t make sense to me.
My pony mare Lady and my stallion Juanito had a foal that had only a hat on and a small dot on the chest, so I guess that was a War Bonnet. I was thinking that I could never sell such a horse, but the day came and a girl jumped on “Jolly Joker” saying that this is exactly all she ever wanted: a grey horse and a Pinto, so here she has the total white and the Pinto in one. Well she bought him 
http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
Top class and exceptional colored German Warmblood Sporthorses
[This message was edited by aurum on Apr. 08, 2003 at 08:29 AM.]
Tin - I dont think so, but good try - obviously you are not exactly conversant with the more exotic breeds like I am.
Here is an excellent example of a doublepaloosaperlpalellopintoloosa
The telltale signs are the weedy looking sparse tail, the spotting on the rump, and the purple tone throughout.
“Spot”
(who is obviously having a slow day and needed a diversion of sorts!)
not changing the subject here but all these pretty fair haired horses have gotten me wondering…what are the possibilities if you bred each of these type stallions to a dark bay mare??
Perlino?
Cremello?
Palomino?
HOORAY–it’s a filly!!!
First I would like to say, congratulations!!!
I Would have to agree with Norsire & Aurum…
Geneticly speaking…it would be impossible to get a perlino from a cremello and Palomino…
Your colts eyes may lighten with the next few weeks to come and coat colour can change a lot in the first few months after birth… Nevertheless…Nice Colt…
Here are a few links for you to look at that may help explain…
http://www.doubledilute.com/main.html
http://www.doubledilute.com/color-chart.htm
Good luck with your colt…
www.blazingcoloursfarm.com
The www.doubledilute.com site indicates that smokey blacks don’t necessarily have anything visible that differentiates them from true blacks. So ??
Yes and I have to insist on my sabohanocolori !!!
Alexandra
I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
CMBF - a nice lady in PA bought her.
They are planning on sending her back here next year to breed to Sato which should be an awfully nice cross! And colorful too!
“Spot”
I was going to stay out of this but…
palomino and cremello are dilutes of chestnut. Chestnut is recessive. A chestnut horse can only have chestnut “base” genes or it is not chestnut. So, while a two bays can make a chestnut (they both may have a recessive chestnut gene), two chestnuts CAN NOT make a bay. Therefore, grandparent color (or any other ancester in this particular case) makes no difference since there is no way that either the sire or dam of the foal in question could have had a bay/black gene and still be the color they are.
Some things in color genetics are hard, this isn’t one of them…
And chelsea, the buckskin filly that mare had last year got it’s black/bay gene from it’s sire Apollon, not the mare…
(Now spot & norsire - don’t go into shock because we are agreeing on something )
“It is that stupid moron’s RIGHT to be that completely and utterly WRONG.” - Dennis Miller and his thought’s about Michael Moore
I have also a question for the color experts
( sorry Mahal, thats not a answer to your foals but in this thread so many colored horse are postet )
I posted in attach a picture of a mare. i´m not sure is this a cremello or what is it ? She has aqua blue eyes, but her tail and mane are darker and also she has a darker shine on her body.
Can you help me ?
Thank you
Mandy
Home of “Atom”
Equus Kinsky Stallion in Palomino Color
If someone is interested to read the website of the Equus Kinsky horses - sorry only BASIC OVERVIEW seems to be in English - then here is the link to them:
http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
Top class and exceptional colored German Warmblood Sporthorses
Dunhorse:
I just read about the Barlink gene, but this gene or silver dapple is not available in the Kinskys and also not in the other European WBs that I know of. It seems that Barlink gene comes from a special stallion only. I am glad you agreed with us others that only the PARENTS are responsible for a foal’s coat color and that THIS particular colt is definitely a Palomino. In addition it looks totally like a newborn Palomino. I have seen a lot of Palominos born in my stud farm in more than 20 years of breeding Palominos. Mahal had her one and only Palomino born in 2000 and she might have forgotten how he looked at that time.
I also agree on your signature post…God forbid!
Pintofoal:
I agree with you 100%!!! Otherwise there is no success and nobody would want to buy a horse just because it is the “one and only …” or “first and only …”. It is the quality that comes first and this should be the main goal. But I must admit, when I have bred something new I used to write that too, because it makes a breeder proud to have been able to breed something new, even if it is not new for long. You might have a “first” for one year or even a shorter time and then there will be more as others would perhaps try to also have something that rare and with the possibilities of today (shipped semen and frozen semen), we are all able to breed what we would want. Another question is: how can one determine a “stallion prospect” in a foal that is just 2 days old?
http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.de
Top class and exceptional colored German Warmblood Sporthorses
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