Rated shows - Are we ready?

[thecolorcoal]

JenEM - thank you so very much. I feel that I never had a “right” to show in the past, considering my horseless situation, but things are different now. For me, I am much more interested in the schooling shows. Leaser wants the rateds, and that’s totally fine - I told her i’d supply the ushja/usef registration fees for the horse, but she had to pay her own classes. Not sure if we have a “trailer” fee but there is a grounds fee everyone needs to pay. There is a “trailer parking” fee we are trying to skirt by traveling on horseback. I have a membership to the park so there are some fees I get to avoid.

The official schedules are not up for 2018, but I used to have access to 2017 and these were the prices of that schedule.

Rated Show List - 2018 has not come out yet but I am using these prices as reference, I know they have gone up 5 dollars per class in 2017, but the lodger has been misplaced.

I was wrong about the schooling shows - it is $35 a class U[/U], for some reason last year when I went for my dressage test I remember it being more expensive.

The schooling shows in my area are taken very seriously. They have the same standards of a rated show but they aren’t USEF rated. Prize list.

[Soaponarope]

Can you clarify that the adult division goes in one day only? Or are you splitting the division with your leaser?

It’s great if you can save money by going to the rated show just for one day, but keep in mind the majority of the horses will have been there a few days before the weekend. They will have been ridden by the trainer in warm up rounds on Thursday, for example, and then usually the owner rides another warm up on Friday and sometimes a pro rides the horse again on Friday. That means your competition will be thoroughly acclimated to the ring and the jumps by Saturday when you are just getting there. If your horse is a deadhead and doesn’t care, that’s fine. But just be aware of this factor.

At the end of the day, you can always try the rated once and see how it goes. If it doesn’t go well, go back to the local series. On the one hand, you will likely learn a great deal more by going to the rated show and watching the rated horses. On the other hand, if you want less pressure, go to the schooling series.

[chicagojumper]

If the costs are actually the same, I’d do the rateds but at 2’6. Have trainer school the day before and/or buzz your horse around in the Baby Greens, then you can do the Modifieds or Novice (or local equivalent) at 2’6. The 3’0 Adult divisions at A shows are usually pretty overwhelming for green horses - they’re held in the bigger hunter rings, jumps are set to spec, lots of fill, lots of entries, higher pressure.

[thecolorcoal]

@Soaponarope - Unfortunately it goes in 2-day sets. So saturday and sunday, and we’d have to pay 2 grounds fees. That would be split between leaser and I. It’s the only extra charge, everything else is charged once. That’s how they getcha! :yes: So with that said it’s looking more like ~500/show, which is what I originally calculated last year when I started budgeting and breaking down the prices. If each of us goes one day, that’s $250 for each of us, so that makes it a bit more affordable. Or, if trainer wants to enter instead of me (i’d prefer that), i can pay her fees in exchange for her representing my horse and riding her in the classes. her training fees are very low, as she’s also trying to get experience. We’re sort of a grass-roots program!

I am fine for supplementing costs in exchange for my horse competing, I just don’t want to be the one riding. To be able to show my horse is my goal, but I feel i am not adequate nor will take the class with the seriousness it needs.

@chicagojumper - I am going to check the schedule again to see if we have a 2’6 rated division. We have the C classes at 2’6 but those are schooling and the same price.

After chatting with trainer and leaser we’re going to play the rateds by ear. Leaser is concerned because my horse doesn’t have great “manners” upon landing the jumps and tends to play on the other side, especially over the scary ones. Trainer says it’s going to take some show miles. Like i said, the dilemma is it is all the same cost, but the risk of losing a schooling show is lower than a rated. We’ve got until April to decide what we want to do, and the series goes on for 6 months. I’d like to participate in at least one. we can’t do them all, obviously, but the experience would be great.

I think we are bringing some of her lesson students as well to the shows. It will be a big, fun group! Our barn’s very first debut!

[JenEM]

@thecolorcoal

I was wrong about the schooling shows - it is $35 a class U[/U], for some reason last year when I went for my dressage test I remember it being more expensive.

The schooling shows in my area are taken very seriously. They have the same standards of a rated show but they aren’t USEF rated. Prize list.

Looking at that prizelist, all I’m seeing is a hunter trip and an eq trip at each height. Not even an undersaddle? At $35/class, that’s $70. Unless I’m missing something?

If you’ve got a horse that hasn’t shown over fences before, and can get expressive after “scary” fences, GO TO THE SCHOOLING SHOWS. Everything will be scary the first time out, because if it really is serious and run like a rated show, the fences, even the 2’ fences, are going to be full of flowers and boxes and brush. The horse needs to go do little courses there until it is not even interesting any more.

Or, if trainer wants to enter instead of me (i’d prefer that), i can pay her fees in exchange for her representing my horse and riding her in the classes.

That’s…that’s how it works. If you want a trainer to show your horse, you pay for the horse’s show fees, AND you pay the trainer a fee to show the horse.

[thecolorcoal]

@JenEM you are completely right, we will have flowers and oxers and all sorts of brushes at our schooling shows. A lot of the upper-level hunter/jumper riders start at these shows to prepare for the summer circuit so we will see a lot of serious riders. This year may not be our year to qualify for points, in that case. I think we can be just as competitive and prove ourselves in the schooling shows.

I will discuss with trainer and leaser about what they want to do with the rated. Today they were thinking about showing rated in the jumpers (we’d be a little more competitive), and doing the hunter schooling classes. However those horses do rip around the arena. I’d feel more comfortable if my mare went slow and steady, but she was originally purchased as my jumper mount, but since discovering her amazing form we thought hunters may be more appropriate for her.

Lots to consider! Completely agree that we may need to put rateds up on the shelf this year. There’s some away schooling shows, too, we can trailer out to, so the horses get used to being away from home.

[mfglickman]

The schooling series prizelist indicates that everything goes by USEF rules then cuts itself off at mid-sentence. :lol: Then it shows “divisions” with 2 o/f rounds per and no flat/under saddle. No discernible difference between hunter and equitation in the description, and proper show turnout is “rewarded.” This looks like the type of show you and your horse will be happiest starting at. It looks like fun, and at $70 per division it’s hard to beat.

I looked for a timetable, schedule, or office fees, and didn’t see any, but the ticketed rounds @$22 each could also be an option, to get into the ring and school a round without actually competing.

Good luck!

ETA I looked on YouTube for some videos of those JK shows at Woodside Horse Park and from what I found it looks nicely low key. Clean rings, non-terrifying but very standard jumps, and 3 out of 4 people whose rounds I watched had on half chaps, one had a white square pad and no coat in an Eq round. So that should also take down any stress you have about not having the “IT” trendy outfit, whatever that may be.

[BackintheTack]

@thecolorcoal

@Soaponarope - Unfortunately it goes in 2-day sets. So saturday and sunday, and we’d have to pay 2 grounds fees. That would be split between leaser and I. It’s the only extra charge, everything else is charged once. That’s how they getcha! :yes: So with that said it’s looking more like ~500/show, which is what I originally calculated last year when I started budgeting and breaking down the prices. If each of us goes one day, that’s $250 for each of us, so that makes it a bit more affordable. Or, if trainer wants to enter instead of me (i’d prefer that), i can pay her fees in exchange for her representing my horse and riding her in the classes. her training fees are very low, as she’s also trying to get experience. We’re sort of a grass-roots program!

I am fine for supplementing costs in exchange for my horse competing, I just don’t want to be the one riding. To be able to show my horse is my goal, but I feel i am not adequate nor will take the class with the seriousness it needs.

@chicagojumper - I am going to check the schedule again to see if we have a 2’6 rated division. We have the C classes at 2’6 but those are schooling and the same price.

After chatting with trainer and leaser we’re going to play the rateds by ear. Leaser is concerned because my horse doesn’t have great “manners” upon landing the jumps and tends to play on the other side, especially over the scary ones. Trainer says it’s going to take some show miles. Like i said, the dilemma is it is all the same cost, but the risk of losing a schooling show is lower than a rated. We’ve got until April to decide what we want to do, and the series goes on for 6 months. I’d like to participate in at least one. we can’t do them all, obviously, but the experience would be great.

I think we are bringing some of her lesson students as well to the shows. It will be a big, fun group! Our barn’s very first debut!

This post makes me lean towards schooling shows. The point of schooling shows is to get show miles. At a rated show if your horse acts up for example refuses you will be disqualified and asked to leave. At schooling shows however, frequently the judges will allow the rider to continue to ‘school’.

Also, I don’t know how rated shows work in your area, but if I was going to a rated show I wouldn’t be able to split days with my leaser. You can’t do the first day of one division with one rider and the second day with another rider and count the points together.

Also, at rated shows the competition is usually a lot more stiff. If you’re someone that’ll be discouraged by how you place, schooling shows might be the way to go.

As for looking the part… I ride hunters and as long as you look traditional and tidy you will look the part. At rated shows however, most people have their horses professionally braided. I braid myself, and do a decent job at it but even I feel self-conscious lined up with all the pro braided hunters.

[fordtraktor]

@thecolorcoal I looked at the prize list for the A show. I think you are misreading it. The Adult Hunters have 4 over fences classes and a hack. 2 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday, and the hack is on Saturday. They are not different divisions. It is NOT usual for two different riders to ride one horse at the A shows in the same division (except for the hack if you have two horses in the same division). I don’t even know if they’d let you.

Even the low adults are set up this way.

I think you could do the Rusty Stirrups or something on Sat, and whatever they have on Sunday in the short stirrup ring, but no rated division goes all in the same day. ETA: actually change that, even the short stirrups are run that way! But they might permit you to split it in that ring. You won’t qualify for championship points likely though even in those divisions if you enter by the class.

The schooling shows look lovely. Also they have some fun looking 2’ and 2’6 medals. Maybe you could do those and have a goal of qualifying for the Medal Finals. That would be a nice year goal.

[Ladylexie]

Good luck and have fun!

[findeight]

That schooling show looks like a great deal to get some miles on your mare. If you want to help your trainer build her reputation, have her do a couple of those $22 ticked warm ups. That will benefit the mare, you and your lease partner and ensure trainers reputation can build on positives, sending an Ammie client into a class knowing the horse is dead green over fences and lands…disorganized…would leave a very negative impression.

Some trainers try to avoid saying “absolutely not” to a client, knowing that can be seen as dictatorship and backfire into an unhappy client determined to do it anyway. These secretly hope client will get any hints dropped and come to the conclusion they aren’t ready all by themselves. If they do a good job teaching, client usually figures out whats appropriate. And based on what’s been said, appropriate is the schooling show right now.

Have you had a sit down meeting with trainer and lease partner to discuss goals for the year? Or does each side here assume they are on the same page? Common pitfall in tne trainer/client relationship, clear communication is key. My two best trainers over 50 years had a sit down meeting every holiday season to discuss next years goals, including budget. With EVERY client, even those with more modest goals and budget. It saves a lot of grief and misunderstandings if you start on that same page.

[thecolorcoal]

Thanks for everyone’s responses.

It sounds like this year will be dedicated to schooling shows. My trainer is definitely trying to let us down gently, so to speak. She told me to draft a list of shows in the area and fire off an email to her, leaser, and BO (who will be joining us and has recently started trainer’s program with her own two horses, yippee!) with a breakdown of costs, classes, locations, and dates. That way, she and BO (who is quite involved and has the trailer) can talk about what everyone would do well in.

Goals have shifted from showing rated this year to getting my horse experience. I do trust that she’ll do well but, admittedly, my leaser has experience on very quiet, very well-trained warmbloods and is limited in her knowledge of young, opinionated tb mares xD.

While we have not had a sit-down meeting (this definitely should happen), as we’ve sort of all been communicating through trainer. Leaser is a bit discouraged by mare’s high-energy around the courses (we’ve only just started serious hunter training) and is debating whether or not to show her jumpers while we get her more settled at home. At the same time my horse has an old injury and vet doesn’t recommend high-speed, tight turns so I am a bit leery.

But like I said the schooling shows are incredibly competitive in my area. They have the same circuit-feel but without the points. We even have mock hunter derbies and they are sponsored by local businesses.

It seems like this year we will dedicate to schooling shows. I’m happy we are near the park though, because that removes the training related to the horses learning about the show venues.

[IPEsq]

Re the jumpers…if you don’t care about winning the turn and burn classes, those can be beneficial for mileage. There are various sub-1.0m classes that you or your lessee could do individually to get around and have some fun. A lot of them are blue ribbon classes meaning no jump off and you just go clear in the first round for your blue. I used to do a lot of those at some higher heights to practice for the equitation, and I for sure was not turning and burning, but considering the WIHS jumper phase and USET had time allowed to follow, I did try not to have time faults. That might also be one way you could split the weekend with another rider. However, for this year, it sounds 100% appropriate to stick to schooling shows.

[BostonHJ]

I agree stick to schooling shows and since it’s your horse, the lessor can do with her what you allow - ie, if you want her to learn to be a quiet hunter, she can show her in the hunter ring (or perhaps the jumper ring if she agrees to go slowly). I think your team seems to have a real emphasis on winning and that can be really counter-productive with a green horse.

If I can impart any advice, it would be to go slowly and listen to your horse. If she’s really frazzled, stick to flatting in the schooling area and call it a day when she takes a deep breath. Maybe her first show or two she only does the ticketed ring for a few trips. Regardless of how things go, she should only have to show over fences for MAYBE four classes in a day and MAYBE flat twice. You don’t want her to think shows are a stressful marathon; you want to let her have many small successes and end after one of those. If you let her feel like a hero for her first year showing, she’s far more likely to actually be a hero for the rest of her career.

I took a quick peek at your blog and it seems like maybe you want to prove that a horse bought on the cheap can win. For all of us who have been there, I empathize. Take a deep breath, be patient and do right by your horse. It would be hard to make her foray into the show ring too slow; it would be really easy to to take it too quickly. She’s a nice looking horse and young so put in your time now!

[joiedevie99]

I just wanted to echo what BostonHJ said above. Your horse’s confidence builds up slowly over lots of good experiences, and deteriorates instantly with one bad experience.

If neither you nor the horse have shown over fences before, I’d plan on something like this. This entire plan presumes that all of the riders are capable of riding the horse at the level needed to impart confidence and be successful.

Show 1: Trainer rides the horse in the warm-up area, including over fences. You and/or Leasor show in one flat class each.

If all goes perfectly, then

Show 2: Trainer rides the horse in the ticketed warm-up over fences at 18" or 2’. You and/or Leasor show on the flat and practices the fences in the warm-up ring.

If all goes perfectly, then

Show 3: Trainer rides the horse in the ticketed warm-up over 2’. You and/or Leasor show in cross-rails.

If all goes perfectly, then

Show 4: Trainer rides the horse in the ticketed warm-up over 2’6". You and/or Leasor show in 2’ Hunters or 2’ Eq, or 2’ jumpers but ridden as a hunter round. I would not let this horse try to compete (i.e. with any speed) in the jumpers while you are trying to turn her into a safe beginner hunter.

If all goes perfectly, then

Show 5: Trainer rides the horse in the ticketed warm-up over 3’. You and/or Leasor show in 2’6".

It should go without saying that if you uncover a training issue with horse or rider, or something doesn’t go well, either take a step back, or do that same thing again. Don’t move on if you aren’t successful.

You could also let your trainer do a division and not show for one week.

[thecolorcoal]

thank you everyone!

It really is about bang for buck. After having been on COTH for a while and reading about the “awful expenses of showing” it’s really made me concerned that it’s not worth the investment unless you get something out of it. I love watching FEI tv and am a huge fan, and I cringe when I watch those riders in the jumper ring retire. I’m thinking “omg they paid all that money only to throw in the towel! That’s got to hurt!” but that’s where we are financially right now. I am sure those riders have plenty of funds, it’s just what I seem to focus on when I see those rounds where riders say “no more,” for the good of the horse.

I’m lucky my horse loves to jump. She’s quite a good jumper but like someone else said, she is very intelligent. The jumps go up a hole and all of a sudden she goes “hmm, not so sure about this.” we did primarily flat classes at the last schooling show, no O/F. She did so well. It was walk/trot, so nothing that changed the world but she didn’t buck, bolt, kick out, or have any other bad behavior under saddle with spectators leaning against the rails. That gave me some hope.

I do humbly admit we don’t “need” to go rated. But the rateds have a recorded score. It would put her in a public venue where her records could be tracked. That’s what I always wanted for this horse, something to be able to track her progress. We’ve really caught the eye of our trainer who has extreme faith in this mare and wants to showcase her as her portfolio piece, if you will. We are grassroots, so we’re all a little new to this and my horse is my trainer’s first full-time, onsite client (she has 3 now but we were numero uno) as she transitions from barn manager to independent horse trainer/professional rider.

I still feel we have a lot of people out there who don’t believe in us. I know it’s not the right attitude to have, and I feel a little “Rudy”, in that we won’t get the respect we deserve unless we’re going horseshoe to horseshoe with the big boys.

But then again, winning rated doesn’t mean the “haters” aren’t going to hate and I need to remember that. We may win a blue ribbon, that doesn’t mean their beliefs will change.

I apologize if anyone finds this narcissistic. I’m trying not to seem like it, but I also want to be honest.

[Scribbler]

@thecolorcoal

thank you everyone!

It really is about bang for buck. After having been on COTH for a while and reading about the “awful expenses of showing” it’s really made me concerned that it’s not worth the investment unless you get something out of it. I love watching FEI tv and am a huge fan, and I cringe when I watch those riders in the jumper ring retire. I’m thinking “omg they paid all that money only to throw in the towel! That’s got to hurt!” but that’s where we are financially right now. I am sure those riders have plenty of funds, it’s just what I seem to focus on when I see those rounds where riders say “no more,” for the good of the horse.

I’m lucky my horse loves to jump. She’s quite a good jumper but like someone else said, she is very intelligent. The jumps go up a hole and all of a sudden she goes “hmm, not so sure about this.” we did primarily flat classes at the last schooling show, no O/F. She did so well. It was walk/trot, so nothing that changed the world but she didn’t buck, bolt, kick out, or have any other bad behavior under saddle with spectators leaning against the rails. That gave me some hope.

I do humbly admit we don’t “need” to go rated. But the rateds have a recorded score. It would put her in a public venue where her records could be tracked. That’s what I always wanted for this horse, something to be able to track her progress. We’ve really caught the eye of our trainer who has extreme faith in this mare and wants to showcase her as her portfolio piece, if you will. We are grassroots, so we’re all a little new to this and my horse is my trainer’s first full-time, onsite client (she has 3 now but we were numero uno) as she transitions from barn manager to independent horse trainer/professional rider.

I still feel we have a lot of people out there who don’t believe in us. I know it’s not the right attitude to have, and I feel a little “Rudy”, in that we won’t get the respect we deserve unless we’re going horseshoe to horseshoe with the big boys.

But then again, winning rated doesn’t mean the “haters” aren’t going to hate and I need to remember that. We may win a blue ribbon, that doesn’t mean their beliefs will change.

I apologize if anyone finds this narcissistic. I’m trying not to seem like it, but I also want to be honest.

I have no idea who the “haters” could be for a green horse and rider with no public profile. Either you are referring to specific other young women you’ve had conflict with. Or else you are projecting negative attitude towards you onto the whole world, when in fact nobody is paying any attention to you at all.

This is exactly the way of thinking that you need to drop. As long as you are doing things to prove your intrinsic worth to people that don’t directly matter, you will keep tripping over your own feet. You will be thinking about proving things to Susie or Chelsea who laughed at you back in grade 11 and you will overface your horse and pull a tendon or something.

The only people whose opinion matters are you, your coach, and the judge.

Most people you have crossed paths with don’t remember you, guaranteed, and will never know how things turned out.

For the people you have tangled with directly and who dislike you, winning or not is neither here nor there. People when they are adults don’t suddenly start to like or respect you as a person because you got a ribbon in a class, or because you show rated or schoolng. They like and respect you if you are a decent human being.

You need to practice letting go of that social anxiety and just focusing on setting your own goals and doing what’s best for the horse.

You also need to get rid of any envy or resentment on your part against people with deeper pockets. This will help you stop being so defensive about your own situation and more clear headed about goals and outcomes for your own horse. Part of your problems to date seems to be that you jump around too much in reaction to comments or even just percieved slights from other people. You can’t stick to a coherent goal that way.

Again the only person you need to prove anything to is the judge. All the other voices you imagine whispering out there don’t matter and probably don’t even exist.

[Sugarwells]

@Scribbler

I have no idea who the “haters” could be for a green horse and rider with no public profile. Either you are referring to specific other young women you’ve had conflict with. Or else you are projecting negative attitude towards you onto the whole world, when in fact nobody is paying any attention to you at all.

This is exactly the way of thinking that you need to drop. As long as you are doing things to prove your intrinsic worth to people that don’t directly matter, you will keep tripping over your own feet. You will be thinking about proving things to Susie or Chelsea who laughed at you back in grade 11 and you will overface your horse and pull a tendon or something.

The only people whose opinion matters are you, your coach, and the judge.

Most people you have crossed paths with don’t remember you, guaranteed, and will never know how things turned out.

For the people you have tangled with directly and who dislike you, winning or not is neither here nor there. People when they are adults don’t suddenly start to like or respect you as a person because you got a ribbon in a class, or because you show rated or schoolng. They like and respect you if you are a decent human being.

You need to practice letting go of that social anxiety and just focusing on setting your own goals and doing what’s best for the horse.

You also need to get rid of any envy or resentment on your part against people with deeper pockets. This will help you stop being so defensive about your own situation and more clear headed about goals and outcomes for your own horse. Part of your problems to date seems to be that you jump around too much in reaction to comments or even just percieved slights from other people. You can’t stick to a coherent goal that way.

Again the only person you need to prove anything to is the judge. All the other voices you imagine whispering out there don’t matter and probably don’t even exist.

Amen!!!

[BAC]

I don’t understand why you feel obligated to help trainer grow her business.

[silver_charm]

@BAC

I don’t understand why you feel obligated to help trainer grow her business.

I want to emphasize this as well - I have had great, amazing relationships with trainers in the past. Trainers that really went miles beyond what they should, so I wanted to do the same for them. But they were also very clear there was a bottom line and I was up front about what I could comfortably afford. There was always a clear business respect between us that went both ways. Please be careful of investing so much of your money and hopes into this person to the point where you lose more than you should, and not just in terms of cash.