Rather than tagging onto the TC thread - Split Samples for Charlatan and Gamine in Arkansas are Positive

[Where_sMyWhite]

As I was watching TVG’s preview of BC Saturday, I found that every time they mentioned BB my thought was ‘would I bet on this horse’? (I don’t bet) Would the horse that I was seeing run really running on the horse’s natural talent and ability or did the horse have help.

It is so easy to ruin a perception and reputation (owners, trainers, betting public, viewing public) and so hard to build that back up. For the moment, owners aren’t deserting a sinking ship but if too many more of BB’s runners test positive, I’d be thinking some of his owners might just want to take their horses elsewhere to a trainer who doesn’t keep having contamination issues…

If BB is squeaky clean, time to let the entire barn staff go and start over… (I’m not saying one way or the other that BB is squeaky clean but if staff keeps contaminating equipment and horses so they do test positive, time to make some drastic changes and make the point to the staff that sloppy work around the barn won’t be tolerated). If terminations haven’t already occurred, then the ‘squeaky’ clean looks a bit less clean.

[Texarkana]

Agreed @halo . Especially on the running out of time part.

The resistance to change is getting really tiring.

[Texarkana]

@Where'sMyWhite

If BB is squeaky clean, time to let the entire barn staff go and start over… (I’m not saying one way or the other that BB is squeaky clean but if staff keeps contaminating equipment and horses so they do test positive, time to make some drastic changes and make the point to the staff that sloppy work around the barn won’t be tolerated). If terminations haven’t already occurred, then the ‘squeaky’ clean looks a bit less clean.

Or at least do something instead of playing the victim while it happens again and again.

I understand that Bob Baffert has the right to manage his stable how he sees fit. Technically, he doesn’t “owe” us an explanation of how he manages these issues. I can also respect not just throwing his people under the bus by publicly firing them as if it was solely their fault (maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t).

But… he is one of the most public figures in all of horse racing. His actions affect how the sport will continue in the future. Publicly blaming the system for your problems doesn’t help anyone. With great success comes great responsibility… so step up and fix the issue!

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Texarkana

But… he is one of the most public figures in all of horse racing. His actions affect how the sport will continue in the future. Publicly blaming the system for your problems doesn’t help anyone. With great success comes great responsibility… so step up and fix the issue!

I’m not saying he should publicly out people who are terminated. (Having said that, the individuals responsible for the ‘contamination’ have been ‘outed’ when the results of the inquiry were released.) But, he can certainly acknowledge publicly that individuals that are responsible for the contamination are no longer employed at his barn and that type of behavior will not be tolerated (don’t care if one of the individuals, forget his name now, has been BB’s eye on the ground for the horses shipping east when BB has been in CA.). BB doesn’t have to name names… the backstretch will know who they are anyway and the public has no need to know.

The constant cry of ‘contamination’ is getting old…

[danceronice]

@skydy

When the topic is drugs in horses it is, unfortunately, unwise to give people the benefit of the doubt. It only leads to favoritism and/or cheating.

The rules need to be hard and fast, so everyone knows not to break them and that they will be held accountable if they do. As so many of us have said before, most everyone else seems to be capable of keeping their horses from being contaminated.

I don’t believe someone should be crucified for ONE accident. Because they do in fact happen, especially with the very sensitive thresholds.

But if you have four or five “accidents”, all involving different drugs in different places and somehow you expect everyone to believe ALL of them were accidental contamination? Yeah, either you have the most inept staff ever or it’s not an accident and trying to play it off as one is just getting really silly. But unfortunately it seems to work. I get these are not owners tracks want to piss off, but it’s past the point for real consequences to come down that hurt the people who pay the bills since that appears to be the only way to get to the people doing the actual drugging. Revoking major purses and holding the owners responsible whether that’s ‘fair’ or not might be the only thing that scares the trainers and vets. The owners don’t make the daily medication choices, but they do choose where to put the horses.

[skydy]

@danceronice

I don’t believe someone should be crucified for ONE accident. Because they do in fact happen, especially with the very sensitive thresholds.

But if you have four or five “accidents”, all involving different drugs in different places and somehow you expect everyone to believe ALL of them were accidental contamination? Yeah, either you have the most inept staff ever or it’s not an accident and trying to play it off as one is just getting really silly. But unfortunately it seems to work. I get these are not owners tracks want to piss off, but it’s past the point for real consequences to come down that hurt the people who pay the bills since that appears to be the only way to get to the people doing the actual drugging. Revoking major purses and holding the owners responsible whether that’s ‘fair’ or not might be the only thing that scares the trainers and vets. The owners don’t make the daily medication choices, but they do choose where to put the horses.

I don’t see how having your horse disqualified for a drug overage counts as being “crucified”. The rules apply to everyone.

People seem to get caught up on how the drug entered the horses system. The fact is that the horse ran a race with a prohibited level of a drug in its system and should be disqualified. It doesn’t matter how the drug got there, it was there. Not disqualifying the horse is unfair to the other runners in the race who ran according to the rules.

How the prohibited race day substance was introduced into the horse’s system, accidentally or intentionally, should determine
any further punishment, but the horse should be disqualified from the race or the drug rules are meaningless.

[danceronice]

@skydy

I don’t see how having your horse disqualified for a drug overage counts as being “crucified”. The rules apply to everyone.

People seem to get caught up on how the drug entered the horses system. The fact is that the horse ran a race with a prohibited level of a drug in its system and should be disqualified. It doesn’t matter how the drug got there, it was there. Not disqualifying the horse is unfair to the other runners in the race who ran according to the rules.

How the prohibited race day substance was introduced into the horse’s system, accidentally or intentionally, should determine
any further punishment, but the horse should be disqualified from the race or the drug rules are meaningless.

Except the rules clearly don’t apply to everyone. If Joe Nobody running bottom claimers says the horse got a haybale contaminated with jimsonweed or his groom was wearing a muscle patch, and it’s a first offense, he gets a sixty-day suspension which can destroy his business and livelihood (never mind grooms, jockeys, and horses who have to go somewhere.)

If you’re a big name with billionaire owners and a history of ‘accidental’ violations that are pretty clearly not accidents? You might get two weeks, during which your assistants can run horses, and it’s months before it’s resolved to the point it’s almost not worth pursuing.

Intent has always mattered in law. DQs may have to happen no matter how the drug got there, but someone who’s never had a bad test before and got a bad feed shipment should not be getting months or years, while someone with an accident scenario for all occasions should not be getting fourteen-day wrist slaps based pretty much on how big their name is and how much money their owners spend.

[skydy]

@danceronice

Except the rules clearly don’t apply to everyone. If Joe Nobody running bottom claimers says the horse got a haybale contaminated with jimsonweed or his groom was wearing a muscle patch, and it’s a first offense, he gets a sixty-day suspension which can destroy his business and livelihood (never mind grooms, jockeys, and horses who have to go somewhere.)

If you’re a big name with billionaire owners and a history of ‘accidental’ violations that are pretty clearly not accidents? You might get two weeks, during which your assistants can run horses, and it’s months before it’s resolved to the point it’s almost not worth pursuing.

Intent has always mattered in law. DQs may have to happen no matter how the drug got there, but someone who’s never had a bad test before and got a bad feed shipment should not be getting months or years, while someone with an accident scenario for all occasions should not be getting fourteen-day wrist slaps based pretty much on how big their name is and how much money their owners spend.

I agree. The system, as it is functioning at present, is unfair. My point is, the horse should always be disqualified. Then the punishment regarding intent or accident can be decided. Obviously there need to be more objective people making these decisions. :yes:

[ASB_Stars]

Adding this on here…BB is gonna “do better”, and lays out his plan. It will be interesting to see how this goes, moving forward…

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/244538/baffert-commits-to-changes-to-prevent-failed-drug-tests

[LaurieB]

@ASB Stars

Adding this on here…BB is gonna “do better”, and lays out his plan. It will be interesting to see how this goes, moving forward…

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/244538/baffert-commits-to-changes-to-prevent-failed-drug-tests

“We’re going to do better.”

I’d be more impressed if rather than making PR statements, he actually DID better. But I’m not holding my breath.

[LaurieB]

Also had to pull out this quote from BB: “I always thought I ran a tight ship but I can’t run it like a barn; I need to run it like a hospital.”

I’ve been all over backsides in a dozen different states. I’ve never seen a trainer’s barn that was run like a hospital. Yet, somehow, most trainers manage to avoid having numerous bad tests. Maybe it’s because the other guys aren’t keeping a supply of banned substances around?

[skydy]

Am I the only one who noticed that, while Baffert was complaining about how hard this has been on him and his family, he did not once mention the owners of the horses?

[Where_sMyWhite]

@LaurieB

“We’re going to do better.”

I’d be more impressed if rather than making PR statements, he actually DID better. But I’m not holding my breath.

My thought after reading the article was… yah think Bob you need to do better…

Really :rolleyes:

[LaurieB]

@skydy

Am I the only one who noticed that, while Baffert was complaining about how hard this has been on him and his family, he did not once mention the owners of the horses?

Well, you know, it’s not like they actually matter. :rolleyes:

[skydy]

@LaurieB

Well, you know, it’s not like they actually matter. :rolleyes:

The self pity was a little hard to take. No mention of the loss of prize money for the owners, or the prestigious races that were not added to the horse’s page.:no:

[Where_sMyWhite]

Since we don’t need yet another BB med violation topic…

Del Mar Stewards Sanction Baffert, Brinkerhoff

BB, Merneith testing positive for dextromethorphan post race after finishing second in the fourth race at Del Mar 7/25.

with the, for me, choice quote of the article…

“The groom that had Merneith had (COVID-19), and when he came back, he was treating a cough with Dayquil and Nyquil,” said Baffert’s attorney, W. Craig Robertson III, in October after the initial complaint had been filed by the California Horse Racing Board. “We believe that’s how the horse came into contact with that substance because you would never give a cough suppressant to a horse. It’s just another case of contamination.”

Just how many cases of contamination does BB have???

[ASB_Stars]

I don’t really agree with this decision, but I can see where they decided that they just didn’t want to open the can of worms, and deal with unending lawsuits, along with giving the sport more negative press.

Stewards Dismiss Justify, Hoppertunity Complaints

[Where_sMyWhite]

Maybe the board of stewards at Santa Anita did sweep it under the carpet but, to be fair, I thought they reasonably explained why they dismissed the complaints on both horses.

In a 10-page statement of decision outlining Wednesday’s dismissal, the board of stewards explained that once the CHRB took action on Aug. 23, 2018 to dismiss both the Justify and Hoppertunity complaints, the decision was taken out of the stewards’ hands. The dismissal by the CHRB in 2018 followed recommendations from its executive director, Rick Baedeker, and equine medical director, Rick Arthur, to not call positives because both lab findings were caused by contamination linked to jimson weed.

It is the stewards’ opinion that had this board of stewards heard the Justify and Hoppertunity complaints prior to Aug. 23, 2018, both horses would have been disqualified," the stewards said in Wednesday’s statement of decision. "It is also this board of stewards’ belief that at the Aug. 23, 2018 CHRB meeting in Del Mar, Calif., the attending commissioners unanimously voted, in executive session, to accept the staff recommendation of Mr. Baedeker and Dr. Arthur and formally declined to move forward with any charges in the Justify matter.

[ASB_Stars]

This more aligns with my thinking on the situation…

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/view-from-the-eighth-pole-veering-off-into-la-la-land/

[ASB_Stars]

And the beat goes on- Baffert fined and Gamine set down for Oaks drug test.

Baffert Fined, Gamine DQed From Kentucky Oaks Third