I would STRONGLY suggest having your hay and alfalfa tested. Without those numbers you truly don’t know how much he is getting. You ultimately could be wasting your money feeding him things he just pees out.
That’s very sweet of you. Ultimately, testing hay isn’t practical for me. Perhaps folks that are able to buy hay in large quantities it makes good sense for. Or those that are controlling a founder prone horse or similar. But I’m buying hay from multiple sources that are also using multiple sources in small lots on a frequent basis. Testing hay would provide me with zero meaningful results (unless I tested every single bale I purchased). So your strong suggestion would be a total waste on me.
It’s pretty easy to add/subtract supplements and note changes or lack thereof to determine if the supplements are actually doing anything. I’m fairly aware of local conditions and all supplements have been discussed with and approved by the vet.
I did look at the Tribute Ration Balancers. The wholesome blends formula looked pretty good. If horsey won’t eat the TC 30 I’ll try it next.
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If my horse didn’t need quite so much copper / zinc, that might be a good choice!
6lb of TC Sr is north of 9,000 calories. That’s a lot of room to play with
What’s the reason for increasing alfalfa?
Just replacing TC Sr with TC Balancer (the regular 30%), is a drop of 7700 calories. That might be too much for a “hunter fat” horse, maybe it’s perfect.
You’re looking to increase the alfalfa - in addition to the Bermuda, or are you replacing some of that? That will play into your calorie calculations
TC has less iron, and more cu/zn in all their feeds, than a lot of other brands.
You do have an option of using alfalfa pellets as a base of calories, and then Vermont Blend
or California Trace
or Arizona Copper Complete (but this comes with Manganese with may not be good for your forage)
With 5lb+ alfalfa, it’s unlikely you need to worry about protein or amino acids
Alfalfa pellets lets you really dial in calories without messing with changing feeds
TC 30 + some level of alf pellets lets you do a lot, but you may still need to add copper and zinc.
Without a forage analysis it’s a best guess
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- Preference, as in I would prefer he ate more legume hay for calories and less bucket feed for calories. and 2. “management” - I’ve got a situation that would be easily solved by tossing out some alfalfa in the paddock at lunch.
Hunter fat boy doesn’t need a lunch unless I remove calories elsewhere. If I’m reading the label correctly, if I reduce his TCS then he wouldn’t be getting a full serving of vitamins / minerals.
The additional alfalfa (or perennial peanut hay) would be given in turn out, so possibly impact his fresh grass consumption but not his grass hay rations.
I could conceivably not change his diet at all and find a different way to solve my management issue. But I’d like to try him on a RB or VMS with increased legume hay and see how he does.
You just need to find a product that hits the mineral levels you need. The Trace products have plenty of copper and zinc. Feed them in a small mash, minimal calories. . Easy to make mash in the laundry room at home! Then play with his hay. IME horses prefer live grass to hay as long as there is any grass left.
What I wouldn’t give for a real laundry room. This 100 year old farmhouse has a wee cabinet with stackable machines in it. Lol
I mix grain out in the barn. Well in the horse trailer in the barn, but yeah out there. I have had my feed room in my laundry room many moons ago at a different property. All of his feed is soaked to a mash or soup as he’s a choker.
Hunter fat boy got hunter fat cause he’s a dedicated chow hound. I tossed some plain grass hay over the fence at lunch today to distract him while I was fussing over the oldie. He went straight to the little pile and didn’t move til it was gone.
I think you get tastier grass up there. We have Bermuda or Bahia here and I’ve yet to see a horse leave alfalfa or perennial peanut to go graze unless run off by a herd mate.
Also check out the Seminole Equalizer. It has V and M as well as Protein. My air fern Lusitano gets a literal handful of Purina feed and a full serving of Equalizer, and a squirt of Camalina oil. Just right, and on southern grass pastures 24/7
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I will check that one out too. My preferred retailer stocks that as the TC 30.
Can we get a better definition of “hunter fat” here? Because to me, it’s a fat horse who needs to lose weight, and that’s not one I’d be adding more alfalfa to, unless you’re removing more hard feed calories than you’re adding alfalfa calories.
Correct, but easily resolved by adding a partial serving of a ration balancer or a forage balancer
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I snagged these from a recent video, I’m not sure if they will be helpful. I can try to snag better ones tomorrow in daylight. Vet estimates his weight at @ 1350 lbs (using a weight tape). He’s about 17.1 tall.
I’m not following why mixing the TCS and the ration balancer would be preferable to RB and an extra flake or two of alfalfa. To be sure we aren’t getting high quality dairy alfalfa here.
Double check the prices and feeding guidelines. The Wholesome Blends needs a higher feeding volume than TC30 and from what I understand the sugar/starch levels are much higher than TC30.
My horses were on a ration balancer over the winter. I decided to make a change to a VMS instead to see if it would help their hoof and coat. I have been AMAZED at the change in hoof quality in a very short period of time. I started the switch with adding copper and zinc to the RB I already had so that I wasn’t wasting, but could start on the road to better quality in December. In January I switched to Vermont Blend. The changes were amazing. I decided I would try a VMS I could get locally (Equimin and ordered 10 lbs of Tri Amino) This lasts me around 6 weeks for 3 horses. Even when the weather was really wet and they were on pasture most of the time, I didn’t have issues with the clinches on their shoes popping. The hoof was much better able to manage it’s own wet/dry cycles. I think the iron levels in the RB weren’t helping the hoof/coat health for any of my 3.
I have since pulled shoes and am working toward a healthier hoof from the trim aspect. Their hooves have changed tremendously over 4 short weeks. They had long toes and under run and contracted heels. The toes are back nicely and the heels have relaxed and are much less under run. Another 4 weeks and I think they will be good. Hopefully the concavity will come in the next 4-6 weeks.
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The price is pretty high that’s for sure on the Wholesome Blends.
Crazy high iron is a big deal in my area. The ground has too much iron and naturally the water has too much iron. Most horses drink well water here. Including mine. I think it’s safe to guess that locally produced hay has high iron as well. This is why I’m a fruit bat about getting copper and zinc into my horses. I try to hedge my bets a bit by purchasing and feeding some hay, alfalfa, that’s not grown locally in hopes that maybe it has less iron.
I’m already adding copper and zinc (along with sulfur and kelp) to triple crown senior and have been for years. I was hoping I could find some sort of RB or VMS that had enough copper zinc so I wouldn’t have to add extras, but based on my dubious math and measurements I think I’ll be continuing to add. I’ll probably try TC 30 or Vermont Blend and see how that goes. A very sweet COTHer offered to send me some of the Vermont Blend so I’m excited to try that. As far as I can tell this horse isn’t soy sensitive but I haven’t ever fed him a soy free diet so that would be a fun experiment.
Best of luck with your new trimming routine! I have a new horse going barefoot too and like you am hoping for sole concavity sooner rather than later!
The bay gelding pictured above has been on a good barefoot protocol for about two years (prior he was on a dubious barefoot protocol lol). Last week he had to walk over some serious gravel. First time on any kind of rocks in at least five years. He never so much as flinched or hesitated. Walked on out bold as brass. Success!
Given your situation, which means the forage is high in iron and low (to possibly barely any) copper and zinc, then even balancers that don’t have added iron (but they still have intrinsic iron, the Wholesome Blends Balancer is 175ppm intrinsic iron), it’s pretty much guaranteed you’re going to have to add cu/zn to whatever commercial feed/balancer you use. know too that even adding hay pellets as your base of calories brings intrinsic iron. The nice things about Vermont Blend, for example, is how much cu/zn there is in the mix. But of course, with separate cu/zn you can tailor it better if needed
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If you can tell us how much copper and Zinc you are currently adding/wanting to replace, that might help 
Vermont Blend and most of the other VMS manufacturers of that type do offer samples, too. Several offer a no selenium version, also, not sure what Se is like in your area.
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That’s a really special situation, OP, I can see now why you need to add extra copper and zinc above the levels of any commercially available product. I guess then you need to do the math and decide if there’s a product out there that gives you the other things you want like biotin and E at a decent level and cost and then supplement your own copper and zinc. If you are wanting to feed very high levels of everything beyond the Arizona or California Trace levels, it might indeed be cheaper to buy components and mix. You could also get a custom blend made.
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Barely any of anything cept phosphorous potassium and aluminum. Fun times here.
It’s a testament to the horse species that they keep on kicking here.
I’ll probably stick to the TC brand if the Vermont Blend doesn’t work out or horse won’t eat it. Certainly I’ll keep the other, needs front shoes to jump thread, gelding on the TCS.
I don’t know what I’m feeding either. LOL. This gelding gets two tablespoons daily of a “Pat Colby mix”. And has been for at least 5 years bar the odd experiment of taking him off it. His feet holder better on it so I’ve continued. The mix itself changes depending on what the supplier can get a hold of. IE one kind of sulfur in one batch and another kind of sulfur in another batch. His additional copper comes from this mix. Is it half a teaspoon? A whole teaspoon? What kind of copper? Actual weight measurements? I’ve got no clue. Black magic stuff. Comes from a guy with goats. Works good, tastes terrible. It’s mostly calcium actually.
He gets a teaspoon of Zinpro 40 daily. It’s zinc methionine. Technically I can weigh this product and determine exactly how much zinc this is but have not done so yet.
No to little selenium here either. He gets some from his grain currently. I do like keeping up with a vitamin E supplement though as I understand it can assist with some Se shortfall. There was a brief period at a boarding barn where I couldn’t control the type of grain he was eating AND he wasn’t getting a full serving daily. During that time I did pop him on Elevate Se.
I contacted HorseTech re a custom blend. It was priced astronomically for most of what I feed, and I’d still be buying the Refresh separately. I suppose I could get quoted again and leave out the Quiessence (basically HT was gonna blend that for me) Or drop the chondroitin and get some other type of Magnesium.
Someone needs to make a VMS for this area! Tons of everything lol
