I have heard that feeding raw with kibble is a no no due to the rate of digestion for each is very different.
That said I wouldn’t rely on small bones like chicken to be all that useful for teeth. My dogs get marrow bones all of the time. I am talking cannon bone. They can’t swallow them, and they last forever. I sometimes resuse them by stuffing them with PB, or raw chicken, cottage cheese, apple sauce etc.
BUT the marrow bones are readily available, and so delightful according to my dogs 
[QUOTE=CrazyGuineaPigLady;6280443]
All studies of animal nutrition are based on the raw diet that animals thrived on for thousands of years. Commercial foods were created as a convenience and because domesticated animals weren’t doing well on table scraps. There was a need and it was filled, much like the drive-thru at McDonalds.
I’ll agree that most people should stick to commercial for a variety of reasons, but that doesn’t mean a balanced raw diet is not better. Lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) can’t cook and do very well on the “over time” raw diet. So do wolves, raccoons, foxes, etc…[/QUOTE]
and I repeat. There are no studies, there is casual observation, there is anecdotal observation but no studies. There have been no studies done to see if a raw diet is actually balanced or not. Which is not to say it works or does not work, but there are not .any. challenged studies to prove that it is either balanced or better.
I have heard that feeding raw with kibble is a no no due to the rate of digestion for each is very different.
this is a myth. Many people feed kibble + raw and have zero problems.
that said I wouldn’t rely on small bones like chicken to be all that useful for teeth. My dogs get marrow bones all of the time. I am talking cannon bone. They can’t swallow them, and they last forever. I sometimes resuse them by stuffing them with PB, or raw chicken, cottage cheese, apple sauce etc.
BUT the marrow bones are readily available, and so delightful according to my dogs
the hard bones won’t clean your dog’s teeth- it’s the shearing action of the teeth going through the meat/relative soft bones that clean the teeth. Most dogs, given hard marrow bones, don’t actually even chew at all- if you watch, they will lick the marrow/ stuffing out without doing any chewing. They love it, yes, and it keeps them busy, but it doesn’t clean the teeth. In fact, many would say these are not good for dogs- dogs who do bite down on hard beef leg bones often end up breaking their teeth. Shear fractures of the molars. I personally avoid giving marrow bones to dogs. Stuffed kongs work just as well without the risk of fractured teeth.
It’s true there are no studies proving raw diets are better than kibble. There are, however, a lot of studies on what dogs need in their diets for health- certain amounts of certain minerals, vitamins, amino acids, etc.
and the nutritional content of a properly balanced raw diet, oddly enough, tends to match the “ideal” profile of a diet for a dog. And doesn’t match the profile of most commercial kibbles. A raw diet is very high in protein and fat, and very low in carbohydrates.
I personally don’t think that the diet needs to be raw per se- if you replicate the proper nutritional content in a kibble or cooked form, that should work just as well as a properly balanced raw diet. Note that most home-made “random parts from the grocery store” raw diets are not balanced.
However, nothing really works as well as raw meaty bones for cleaning dogs teeth. And dirty teeth are a big health problem for dogs these days.
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;6279977]
I wish I could get a definitive answer on whether feeding raw occasionally -for teeth cleaning benefits- is harmless. That was Cluck’s goal (who now seems discouraged from trying again).[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between FEEDING raw and giving dogs raw bones. Our dogs get both.
My dogs have both been on raw since they were eleven months old. They are both three. While their teeth are in GOOD shape, they are not spotless. I still brush them once a week just to keep them clean. The main reason our dogs are fed raw is because I got sick and tired of trying to find the RIGHT kibble for our one dog with horrible allergies (environmental and food.) I went through many high dollar foods before settling on a raw diet which controls her allergies.
[QUOTE=threedogpack;6280675]
and I repeat. There are no studies, there is casual observation, there is anecdotal observation but no studies. There have been no studies done to see if a raw diet is actually balanced or not. Which is not to say it works or does not work, but there are not .any. challenged studies to prove that it is either balanced or better.[/QUOTE]
A raw diet isn’t just about tossing some chunks of meat at them on a daily basis. There IS a method to the madness, using X% of organ meat vs X% of muscle meat vs the other types of meat and bones. And, many raw diets will also recommend using a commercial v/m supplement at least a few times a week, since you CAN be deficient in some things based on what animal meat you’re feeding.
You can’t just toss the dog a whole chicken every day and expect it to be balanced.
[QUOTE=wendy;6280687]
It’s true there are no studies proving raw diets are better than kibble. There are, however, a lot of studies on what dogs need in their diets for health- certain amounts of certain minerals, vitamins, amino acids, etc.
and the nutritional content of a properly balanced raw diet, oddly enough, tends to match the “ideal” profile of a diet for a dog. [/QUOTE]
how do you know the nutritional content tends to match the ideal profile if there are no studies?
[QUOTE=threedogpack;6280675]
and I repeat. There are no studies, there is casual observation, there is anecdotal observation but no studies. There have been no studies done to see if a raw diet is actually balanced or not. Which is not to say it works or does not work, but there are not .any. challenged studies to prove that it is either balanced or better.[/QUOTE]
Where is it written, by anyone other than dog food companies, that a dog’s diet has to be balanced? That is a term completely coined to sell kibble. Dogs are mainly carnivores, but can incorporate veggies, fruits and small amounts of grain with no I’ll effect. But having a perfectly balanced diet is not necessary.
[QUOTE=Bicoastal;6279977]
I wish I could get a definitive answer on whether feeding raw occasionally -for teeth cleaning benefits- is harmless. That was Cluck’s goal (who now seems discouraged from trying again).
I have heard/read this many times. I would love to see if chewing raw meaty bones is a miraculous tooth cleaner. However, some say it is harmful to do raw now and then: you’ll make your pup sick mixing kibble and raw…it must be all or nothing. Yet others mix the two daily!
So much completely conflicting information from people with equal experience or qualifications has prevented me from touching raw. I would love to see for myself if raw is so beneficial but the “data” is so inconsistent![/QUOTE]
I give raw meaty bones to my dogs a couple of times a month to keep teeth clean. Just make sure they have been frozen first, to kill bacteria. I feed kibble for meals. Been doing it that way for many years and never had a problem.
here is a study on the nutritional requirements for a certain class of dogs (excercising)
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/12/2686S.full
this is not a study, but it is interesting
http://www.hilarywatson.com/cereals.pdf
I don’t care what other people feed. If you think a raw diet is balanced over time, have at it. If you think it’s ok to hope that the minerals are balanced over time, great.
I have five dogs right now-have had no less than three at any given time in my last 20 years… I feed them whatever comes down the pike. Living far from town I’ve feed them homemade when we’re out of food. I’ve fed Purina, Nutrena, Nutro, Grain Free, Ol Roy, Taste of the Wild, oatmeal and chicken, rice and venison, and cat food in a pinch. Vegies as treats, hot dogs as treats, gas station jerky rounds as treats. Raw deer bones as much as they could find and put away, deer horns and hooves, chicken gizzards, and against my will Equine Senior and laying pellets. I have YET EVER in this entire time to deal with anything worse than a case of the bad farts in a single dog ever.
I am seriously convinced that dogs are meant to eat a bit of anything and everything and if you’re hitting the nutrition as well as you are for yourself you’re doing fine. I think if you limit their diets severely (to raw, to a certain dog food, to your homemade) you risk bloat, impaction, gas, and perhaps an entire blockage. I have old and young dogs, a 1.5 year old Great Pyrenees down to a 12.5 year old mutt. They’re healthy as can be, never a sick day. The old mutt kept up on 30 mile rides last year. I have family members that micromanage their dogs diets and their dogs are sick on an annual basis. I really think people over complicate dogs. :lol:
I thought when we finally learned to cook our food we became healthier, no more garbage gut.
Anyway, big bones may clean teeth, they also can crack teeth.
Big raw bones is what many with working dogs in kennels give for entertainment and plenty of those dogs have worn and cracked teeth over the years from it.
Just watch your dog in case that is happening when you feed raw bones.
Anyone heard of brushing your dog’s teeth to keep them clean?
My dog gets hers brushed twice a day, would not miss when I go brush mine to beg for her brushing.
She had her six year checkup the other day and the vet commented on how clean her teeth are for her breed and age and no, she doesn’t eat raw or big bones, she doesn’t really like them.
Se does love equine senior, cleans up after the horses.
The best management for any dog is what works best for that dog.
The observant eye of the owner is what makes it work.:yes:
[QUOTE=threedogpack;6280675]
and I repeat. There are no studies, there is casual observation, there is anecdotal observation but no studies. There have been no studies done to see if a raw diet is actually balanced or not. Which is not to say it works or does not work, but there are not .any. challenged studies to prove that it is either balanced or better.[/QUOTE]
There is plenty of data about what meats are high/low in calories and the nutritional content of organs, before cooking. The bone ratio of common prey is pretty standard at 10%. If you can read a label for your own consumption, you can easily find out what meats are best or worst for your pets. Cow to cow, chicken to chicken and cut of meat to cut of meat it will vary some, but so does commercial. One bag or can does not have the same exact nutrient profile as the last. They use the same vitamins and minerals, yes, but there are many variables about what meats are being supplemented.
I don’t understand why you need a pet food company or some scientific study to tell you what animals require when they were (and still are) thriving on whatever they can catch. Do you not realize that commercial food is virtually the same, except the vitamins that were cooked out got added back in? Where do you think they got the basis of what supplements were most important? From studying the nutrient profile of raw.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
