Raw chicken wings

[Cluck]

After reading on here about feeding raw chicken wings as an addition to the usual kibble (plus canned) diet, I thought I’d buy a bag of frozen and try them with my Anatolian shepherd (130 lbs) and my beagle/boston mix (30 lbs).

I was intrigued by the idea of my dogs enjoying a good chew on soft bones and helping to keep their teeth cleaner by feeding the wings as a regular treat.

Hmmpf the big guy swallowed his whole, I don’t think it even touched the sides of his mouth. Probably not so much of a surprise but then the little guy did exactly the same! :lol:

Darnit so much for teeth cleaning. Any ideas?

[Simkie]

Backs and necks. Whole racks.

I am entertained with combination of this topic and your user name

[Cluck]

Ha I didn’t even notice. My username is a childhood nickname so I didn’t even make the connection.

I will see if I can find some necks for them.

[Simkie]

Any good butcher counter should have necks, backs or racks for you. I was able to buy 20 pounds at Whole Foods for $1/lb? $1.50/lb? Something like that?

[SquishTheBunny]

Interesting topic, we had two incidences with raw chicken wings this week.

Usually, raw bones are not issues as dogs can chew them up and their stomach can digest the bones before sending them through the pylorus to the GI tract.

Two dogs this week came in for severe illness, both were fed raw food including raw chicken wings (the only bone they receive). One was a small pit x, the other was a huge 170lb mastiff. Both required surgery, luckily the mastiff made it through no problem. The pitty on the other hand was ill for so long, that over 70% of the colon had to be resected due to necrosis. The dog was in ICU for 2 days doing well, then showed signs of dehiscence. Unfortunatley the owners ran out of money and had to euthanize.

I have never before heard of issues with raw bones (especially the soft non sharp ones), cooked ones yes, but both these dogs were fed raw chicken bones. Strange. So, just becareful and make sure that if your dog doesnt chew that you do keep a close eye for any GI signs.

[Cluck]

Oh great! Now I am going to worry for the next couple of days

The Anatolian didn’t crunch at all so he should be fine as the bones will be intact and not sharp. The beagle mix did crunch once before swallowing so I am more concerned about him, plus everything is so much smaller.

[Cluck]

It’s not actually clear from your post Squish whether the bones were the culprit/cause for the problems in the two dogs you mention or the raw diet in general. I am hoping the latter!

[JB]

Big dogs, big bones. They need to realize they need to chew something

Even with bones and cats, the bones still need to be big enough to cause them to have to chew and gnaw.

We take away any and all pieces that could be swallowed whole.

[SquishTheBunny]

Yes, it was actually the bones,not the raw food (the bones are radiopaque). 2 scary examples of what COULD happen,but this should be a known risk of feeding your dogs any type of bones (including rawhide chews). Luckily, I know hundreds of dogs who eat raw bones daily with no issues - Im sure your dog will be fine, but just wanted to remind people that there is an increased risk with feeding bones than food without bones.

[diffuse01]

Oh my, chicken wings are WAY too small for either of your dogs to be eating.

If you want to try again, get chicken quarters. For your small dog, you can half them (so you have one leg, and one back), but I wouldn’t touch them for the large dog. My friend has a 100+lb. Rottie and she routinely gives him half of a whole chicken as one of his meals… bigger is better when it comes to raw feeding!

[Cluck]

I think I am just sticking with my normal way of feeding. Food with bones in is much too dangerous!

[lauriep]

No, it really isn’t. Currently on fourth generation of raw fed Dals, never a problem. MANY more issues with kibble and recalls. But wings aren’t big enough to challenge an Anatolian. Nor will chicken necks. Move up to turkey parts. Much more substantial.

[wendy]

there is a very slight risk to feeding raw bones, yes. Probably less than the risk of dogs choking to death on kibble (yes, sometimes they do this), bloating due to a dry kibble diet (yes, bloat is a common cause of dog deaths, and dry kibble diets dramatically increase the risk of a dog bloating), or getting rawhide or nylabones or toys lodged in their guts (yes, dogs need surgery/ die from swallowed toys and all sorts of so-called “safe” chews. They are dogs. Their motto is “eat it now and see if it’s edible later”). I had a surgical vet tech tell me once they seemed to make their living removing tampons and socks from the guts of dogs.
And the health benefit from the clean teeth far outweighs any health risk from eating the raw meat/ bones.
Although sometimes I’ve wondered if one could totally eliminate the risk and keep the benefits by buying large boneless cuts of meat and searing the outside with high heat- kill the bacteria, no bones, the dog still has to chew the meat thus cleaning the teeth. You’d have to find a way to give the dog sufficient calcium of course, plus feeding large chunks of boneless meat would probably be quite expensive. But I am now speculating and am off topic.

A dog’s normal way of eating raw meat is to rip off swallowable pieces and then swallow them whole. The stomach acid turns it into goop- yes, raw bones soaked in stomach acid will get soft and rubbery- and then it gets passed on to the intestines. If it can’t be properly gooped up in the stomach, most dogs will vomit it up later. Thus in the “normal” dog, if you give them a bone that can’t be digested, you’ll find it urped up in your shoe at 2 am, not stuck inside your dog killing your dog.

Anyway, note the “Swallowable pieces” part of above. My great dane was perfectly capable of swallowing an entire small chicken or rabbit whole after giving it one or two crunches in his huge jaws, and did so on more than one occasion, and digested the entire animal, no problems. I’ve noted that after dogs get more used to being fed raw, they tend to chew a bit more rather than gulping, but gulping is a normal way of eating for dogs. Note that swallowing large chunks of meat has been proven to be very protective against bloat. Some people who are going for “tooth cleaning” do fun things like hang on to the end of the chicken wing and make the dog chew more instead of just swallowing it.

[Flurry84]

A scientist with one of the larger drug companies which produces many dog products feeds raw diet to hers. She says do not combine kibble with raw bones/ raw diet because they are digested much more quickly than kibble. The kibble slows digestion so much that the raw diet bacteria remains in the intestines way too long. The reason the bacteria is not a problem with raw diet users is that nothing remains in the stomach and intestines long enough to harm a dog. Just sharing this info for what it’s worth.

[HydroPHILE]

[QUOTE=Simkie;6277139]

I am entertained with combination of this topic and your user name :D[/QUOTE]

:lol: Glad I wasn’t the only one.

[Bicoastal]

Raw once in a while

I wish I could get a definitive answer on whether feeding raw occasionally -for teeth cleaning benefits- is harmless. That was Cluck’s goal (who now seems discouraged from trying again).

[QUOTE=Flurry84;6279176]
do not combine kibble with raw bones/ raw diet because they are digested much more quickly than kibble. The kibble slows digestion so much that the raw diet bacteria remains in the intestines way too long. The reason the bacteria is not a problem with raw diet users is that nothing remains in the stomach and intestines long enough to harm a dog.[/QUOTE]

I have heard/read this many times. I would love to see if chewing raw meaty bones is a miraculous tooth cleaner. However, some say it is harmful to do raw now and then: you’ll make your pup sick mixing kibble and raw…it must be all or nothing. Yet others mix the two daily!

So much completely conflicting information from people with equal experience or qualifications has prevented me from touching raw. I would love to see for myself if raw is so beneficial but the “data” is so inconsistent!

[JB]

I can attest to chewing on big bones being a great teeth cleaner.

We aren’t as diligent as I’d like to be about getting bones for our dogs. It’s usually when we start to see the accumulation of “brown” at the gumline that we go “oh yeah, bones”.

So, they get a bone, not particularly meaty but does have enough stuff on it to really get them chewing thoroughly, and one bone cleans those teeth right up.

But they need to be BONES (relative to the dog of course). Something they can’t bite off chunks and swallow, substantial so their jaws get a workout and those teeth slide around the bone.

I too have heard multiple times and from multiple sources that you can do raw and kibble in the same day, just NOT the same meal for the reason listed. It’s not all or nothing, just one or the other at a given meal

[CrazyGuineaPigLady]

I’ve heard the different digestion rates, too, and tend to believe it. I’ve never heard of a problem with doing all kibble for one meal and all raw for another, though. Eight+ hours apart seems to be the rule of thumb.

You can get a lot of the benefits with less worry by feeding beef heart or chicken breasts. Cheap, easy to find and large enough pieces will give them a dental workout.

One thing to remember is that animals on kibble and canned often need to build up jaw strength to handle bones, and they aren’t familiar with eating that way so they gulp. I think it’s worth starting off with boneless meats a few times a week to see how their gut deals with it before moving up. There is nothing worse than having an animal be “off” because it didn’t tolerate that particular meat and you kicking yourself because you’re afraid it was the bones.

So many people get discouraged because the first couple meals don’t work out like they thought it should. I spent months transitioning my cats (one is around 15 years old!) and now they can chew and tolerate anything I put on their plates. The dog was super easy but I still took my time until she realized big chunks of meat need to be chewed.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;6279977]

So much completely conflicting information from people with equal experience or qualifications has prevented me from touching raw. I would love to see for myself if raw is so beneficial but the “data” is so inconsistent![/QUOTE]

remember too, there have been no formal studies done on the benefits/downsides and/or how true the whole feeding raw balances out over time is.

I will not do raw myself because 1) I worry about the CA/P ratio, which is an important equation for more than just sturdy bone and 2) I’ve heard of people who have dogs with impaction, broken teeth, perforated guts. I am simply not willing to take a chance on those things. I can train around/through the socks/clothing stuff.

[CrazyGuineaPigLady]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;6280165]
remember too, there have been no formal studies done on the benefits/downsides and/or how true the whole feeding raw balances out over time is. [/QUOTE]

All studies of animal nutrition are based on the raw diet that animals thrived on for thousands of years. Commercial foods were created as a convenience and because domesticated animals weren’t doing well on table scraps. There was a need and it was filled, much like the drive-thru at McDonalds.

I’ll agree that most people should stick to commercial for a variety of reasons, but that doesn’t mean a balanced raw diet is not better. Lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) can’t cook and do very well on the “over time” raw diet. So do wolves, raccoons, foxes, etc…