Raw Feeding Advice and Anecdotes Wanted - Cats and Dogs

[JB]

We had a rash of UTIs with crystals maybe 10 years ago. We were already feeding wet food, stopped dry a long time ago (other than one cat who came from a shelter who refused for YEARS to eat canned food), so dry food wasn’t the issue. But, I did upgrade the canned a bit, but we still had repeated UTIs

That led me down the raw journey for the cats, and I’ve been doing that for most of the last 10 years (maybe a bit longer)

It’s a vet-designed diet and is infinitely cheaper than even moderately good canned food, assuming you don’t go overboard with organic chicken, or get into rabbit or duck or other much more expensive meats.

The biggest cost for each batch is bone-in skin on chicken thighs at $1.38/lb, and as I usually get around 50lb, that comes with around 3 dozen eggs. The rest are supplements which aren’t even all that $$ - taurine, Vit E (I use what the horse’s get, so I get it in “bulk”), a B complex, fish oil, lite salt

For around $100 give or take, accounting for all that, I can make enough to feed 6-7 cats for a couple months. The moderately decent canned food, 12-13oz cans (so cheaper per oz than 3-5oz cans) was costing $400-500 for 3 months for THREE cats

www.catinfo.org is where the recipe is from. I have a spreadsheet with formulas where I just plug in how many pounds of chicken I have, to get how much of the other stuff I need, based on their amounts for 3lb of chicken

It’s served us well for years. Coats got incredibly soft and shiny, vet has been very happy with their health.

Yes, we’ve still lost kitties to CKD, lost 2 just this year, 1 a few years ago. But that’s a very, very common kitty thing, and they were 19 and juuuust shy of 20, and the latter kitty had bladder cancer which was likely the cause of her CKD But we’ve lost more kitties to things like FIP, hemangiosarcoma, pancreatitis (most likely) after going into remission from small cell lymphoma, all ages < 15, some of which predated the switch to raw.

I’m happy to share the spreadsheet and my current best practices. You DO need 3-4 hours at a time to make it all if you do more than, say, 20lb of chicken, you DO need a grinder capable of taking on thigh bones, and you need enough freezer space to hold it all.

[luvmyhackney]

I feed my dogs Fromms and supplement with a raw mix I get from my local butcher. Then add an egg and coconut oil occasionally. Plus pumpkin and yogurt for my sensitive dog. My dogs are glossy, shiny, and in great health so I’m not changing anything.

Cats get wet food 2x a day and dry during the day.

If I had freezer space I’d use @JB ‘s recipe and make my own. Wet cat food is $$. I’m spending on average $250-300 in cat food for my three kitties and the neighbors cat.

[JB]

@luvmyhackney

If I had freezer space I’d use @JB ‘s recipe and make my own. Wet cat food is $$.

It really is quite $$, especially compared to dog food on a per ounce basis.

We actually got a chest freezer to put in the garage, mostly to keep the homemade cat food LOL I know not everyone can do that, but even a small freezer can hold enough if you’re using only 20lb of chicken. The cost of the freezer was quickly made up for by not buying canned food for 6 months

[kaya842]

I would love any additional insight! I have a kitchenaid with grinder attachment but haven’t used the grinder yet so not sure if it would be strong enough. How much space does that take up in your freezer?

@MunchingonHay Do you have a resource for more info on the TCM “hot dog” stuff? I’ve heard this before but haven’t found a good source of info on it.

@DiamondJubilee Do you use a vit/ min supplement with the 80/10/10 or 70/10/10/10 mixes? I like the 80/10/10 mixes we get (so does the lab mix) and they seem decently priced but I worry/ wonder if I should be adding a “balancer” to it to ensure they get all the vitamins and minerals they need. I am hoping I can feed it as is to keep life simple and costs down but want to do due diligence on it.

Interestingly, at least to me, raw seems to be more common or more commonly discussed in the UK (seems cheaper there too!). All of the good leads I have found on more affordable pre made raw end up being UK companies.

[Simkie]

@kaya842

I have a kitchenaid with grinder attachment but haven’t used the grinder yet so not sure if it would be strong enough.

This is what I use and it’s fine for meat. I’d not want to run bones through it.

[barnesthenoble]

I feed raw with the occasional canned for my cats. I can’t speak to dogs, unfortunately!

Switched to wet food for the cats after a spate of urinary issues forced us completely off dry, then switched to raw when Covid supply chain issues killed a lot of the budget-friendly brands that had okay ingredients. We were feeding 6 cats completely wet food and that was rapidly approaching $600+/mo to feed them species-appropriate wet foods, even rotating between more and less expensive brands.

I use primarily EZ Complete or Alnutrin, and once or twice TCFeline. All of these are completers that you add to boneless meat and water (and for some of them like Alnutrin, liver). There are also some completers designed for meat with bones. I’ve been reluctant to jump in to the completely homemade like what JB does, but I may eventually add that in rotation. I buy meat on sale–usually chicken, pork, and beef, but occasionally turkey, bison, duck, rabbit, venison, elk, etc. depending on budget and availability. I did buy a meat grinder from Costco, because grinding myself is much more affordable than pre-ground meat. I have a bunch of mason jars and I try to do a ~10lb batch at a time, but the completers have instructions for just one meal at a time.

The cats LOVE it. Their bloodwork is consistently excellent, longstanding health issues (some allergies, some tummy symptoms, the urinary stuff for one of them–the other was more complicated, but the raw helped until he passed) have resolved, their coats look fantastic, and they have much more energy and zeal.

RE: The vet issue, I go to a multi-vet practice, and some of them embrace the raw while others are pretty adamant about the WSAVA party line. I’ve had productive conversations with some where we’ve reached an understanding, and other vets that I just ask not to see except in an emergency situation. I respect their opinion, but at the end of the day I’ve seen the results in my animals with my own eyes. Their bloodwork and health records reflect it, too.

[pony_baloney]

kaya842, check out Dr. Judy Morgan’s website and YouTube channel. She has a lot of TCM information about diets and foods for different conditions, as well as recipes. Chicken is a warming protein, which is often needed by older animals. Younger ones have strong qi, and don’t need the heat. My little dog gets chicken in the winter, for the warming properties and the extra fat.

[JB]

@kaya842

I have a kitchenaid with grinder attachment but haven’t used the grinder yet so not sure if it would be strong enough.

this won’t do bones. You don’t HAVE to do bones, you can add a calcium supplement, but there’s so much more to the bones than just calcium. You need a real grinder. Mine is a Tasin but it was made specifically for the company I bought it from (forget who that was now), but the website has at least one recommendation that I remember.

@kaya842

How much space does that take up in your freezer?

I use 4 cup size containers. When I did 32lb in the next to last batch that was 23 containers. I forgot to count for the last batch of 50lb, but probably around 30

[kaya842]

That’s probably where I read a bit about it! I fed AllProvide in the past which is made in partnership with her. I moved away from it for the My Pet Carnivore for cost and more protein options.

[Kemosabe]

Hare Today has excellent raw protein sources (including some exotics) that are ground and include bone, organ and muscle.

@MunchingonHay

Secondly, I would get the golden off of chicken, lamb, venison, salmon and grains. He is what is called a “hot dog” with Traditional Chinese Med (TCM) and needs a cooling or natural diet. Beef, pork, white fish, shellfish, bison, kangaroo, rabbit. BUT that is just my opinion.

I agree that if I had an itchy dog I would be feeding cooling foods. I follow Ayurvedic guidelines not so much TCM.

While both eastern medicine practices are very similar, some foods that are cooling in Ayurvedic medicine are warming in TCM. For instance grains: oats and wild rice are cooling in Ayurveda but not in TCM. Both TCM and Ayurveda consider grains like barely and buckwheat to be cooling, so there are some similarities.

In Ayurveda, an itchy dog is a sign of excess Pitta (too much fire).
Banyan Botanicals is a good resource for foods to balance excess Pitta.

Ayurveda Pitta Foods - Balancing Pitta Dosha

[DiamondJubilee]

When I feed my mixes, I do add a few things for different reasons (not necessarily for vitamins). I do add a prebiotic (https://www.omegaalpha.ca/products/pet-products/probiotic-8-plus/?doing_wp_cron=1733837622.5029098987579345703125), 1 tbsp of psyllium fibre (for her lick fits), 1 tbsp of joint supplement as she is an xl large breed dog (https://www.omegaalpha.ca/products/pet-products/sinewpet/), 1 tsp kelp (for teeth) and 1 tsp of bovine colostrum (for immune system). I also give her 2 capsules which contains 7 different mushrooms for immunity (I take 2 myself!) and 1 capsule of turmeric with pepper for joints as well (I also take this as well). She gets her capsules in her am meal in some melted shredded cheese. If no veggies are added, I do add 1-2 tbs of green tripe to each meal as well. It is high in calories so I feed it on the lower end, but it has some great mineral and nutrients in it. My girl loves the stinky stuff ha ha!

I do add 20ml of Omegas daily, 1 egg 2 - 3 times a week (including the egg membrane but not the shell as she doesn’t like it), a sardine a few times a week, raw meal replacement bones 2 to 3x week (different types). This way she gets her vitamins and minerals through her diet, though some of her supplements do contain vitamins (I only half dose her supplements for her size - I give 1 scoop of probiotic and 1 scoop of her joint supplement. She is supposed to get 2 scoops of each but she does well on 1 scoop of each so I’m keeping to that for now).

One of the premixes I use is a “complete” meal. It contains synthetic vitamins and veggies and fruits. I rotate this mixture in about once every 3 months or so. Others I feed are just strictly 80/10/10 with nothing added in (https://bigcountryraw.ca/xl-feast-30-lb/) (https://canadaraw.com/) (https://adrpetstores.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/ADR-Store-Menu-July2024-without-RMBs-1.pdf I purchase kennel cuts from here) 3 examples on the types of raw I have been feeding the past 3 years. I change up after every order and try to keep some remaining of the last order so I even mix them for a few weeks. I do have another freezer just for the dog as I can have 200lb+ of meat at a time.

I do also purchase dehydrated raw for the times I cross the border into the US. It is costly so its not a regular for me. My girl does love it though. https://ca.smackpetfood.com/collections/all?tw_source=google&tw_adid=386487481568&tw_campaign=1721074049&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6t-6BhA3EiwAltRFGNmpl4_P2Sqa1MFaz-0o6YnIFacnBXz17_nJ9Un1zcjEb8CrrdIbyRoCABcQAvD_BwE

I don’t feed any “grains” such as rice, potatoes, wheat, bread etc. I may give them as a treat once in a while if I happen to have had some leftover from my dinner, but I don’t add any to her normal meals.

[MunchingonHay]

@kaya842

@MunchingonHay Do you have a resource for more info on the TCM “hot dog” stuff? I’ve heard this before but haven’t found a good source of info on it.

TCM is balancing out the energy. A “hot” dog needs “cooling” or “cold” foods to balance out their energy. And vise versa for a “cold” dog needing “hot” foods. I stay in the middle as much as I can with neutral foods; leaning into cooling foods for my crew. (I had a hot pittie cross that even looking at chicken he would break out in hives)

Here are some great links on the subject:
This is Dr Wendy Ying: https://www.drwendyying.com/holistic_veterinary_advice/food-therapy she does not keep up on her website, but she helped me +15 yrs ago when I started my raw food journey. And I have also purchased TCM herbs from her. She is very helpful and quick to communicate with.
(fun fact, I was on her podcast years ago speaking onmy small dog treat company that focused using TCM guidelines).

I tend to focus on meat and I do not feed all of the vegetables that are suggested, but I do steer clear of grains as a whole.

I don’t do my own raw, I buy single protein, dehydrated foods that align the best I can with TCM and then add fresh and other fun goodies to eat throughout the week.

https://www.herbsmithinc.com/food-energetics-and-your-pet/?srsltid=AfmBOorkWe_hDQ6gl_cyHtm4D6KUyR43wJAbPiySmjYfmjouRY7Nq9bG

Cooling Foods for Dogs: A Basic Food Energetics for Dogs Guide

Help Allergies With Cooling Proteins For Dogs

I know very little about Ayurvedit and am looking to learn more.

ETA I was just briefly in the Hare Today website, they have some great information!!

[Peggy]

A friend feeds raw and the dogs look amazing. It’s raw ground animal (organs included; maybe also bones), a veggie mix made by grinding up greens, sweet potatoes etc., alternating eggs and disgusting canned fish added to dinner, and supplements. It does take a fair amount of freezer space unless you want to be doing the veggies constantly; as it is, I think it’s once every two months and takes part of an afternoon to do the veggies including shopping.

[Peggy]

@MunchingonHay

I fed my cats this: https://primalpetfoods.com/products/feline-freeze-dried-nuggets I used to blend it up in a blender, store in an airtight container, scoop out and rehydrate to make a sloppy mush. The cats will take your face off for it.

I have been searching for a better diet for my cat.

Are your cats that devour it generally fussy eaters or good eaters? Mine can be fussy. Previously I had tried a bunch of types of canned food but he wasn’t a fan of many of them and it got complicated. So he gets Fancy Feast salmon with gravy.

Approximately how much does it cost to feed? I got maybe $3.50 a day but I’m not sure I did the math right between dehydrated vs hydrated, mass of nuggets, etc.

I tried Smalls, but they only deliver to my area on a day that I am not home. Plus I really don’t have enough freezer space. The cat did love it. It ends up costing a bit over $4 a day.

On a side note, the vet of the cat info site was my equine vet. But I’ve never gotten up the moxie to grind up all that stuff.

[Simkie]

@Peggy

Are your cats that devour it generally fussy eaters or good eaters? Mine can be fussy.

Have you ever tried treating his fussy eating?

I’ve turned around a lot of fussy eaters with pepcid.

I also have a suspicion that the weird gums in a lot of wet foods really don’t agree with some cats and somehow contribute to low grade pancreatitis. I have no literature or anything; it’s really just my own crack pot idea based on my own cats. Even just reducing gums helps. It’s been very weird, tbh.

[Peggy]

Yes. You recommended pepcid awhile back and I did it. While it wasn’t a complete turnaround it definitely helped get him through a period where he was especially fussy.

[MunchingonHay]

I was very lucky that both SnuggleUpWithGus and Tristan were not picky eaters.

The air tight container I had fit 3 bags of primal in it and it would last a few weeks. GusGus got .25 cup of Primal dust mixed with water 2x a day.

It was equal to 3 of the nuggets. I have been catless for 2 yrs now and I am sure the cost per bag has changed. I think it was like $2 a day. BUT don’t quote me on it. I would rather pay more for great food, than pour money into the Vet $100’s of dollars at a time with a health issue.

The catinfo.org website is THE BEST!! she is amazing! I would be fangirling all over her if she was my vet.

[MunchingonHay]

That would make sense. Cats are made to eat mice, birds, rodents, etc. small mammals, not plant based products.

[Simkie]

@MunchingonHay

Cats are made to eat mice, birds, rodents, etc. small mammals, not plant based products.

Gums are so far removed from food that they really shouldn’t be called plants. Some aren’t even plant derived at all.

Definitely one of those ingredients that’s easy to just scan over but wow, reducing them has made a really notable difference.

There are gum free canned foods, or, of course, raw.

@Peggy do you think a longer course of pepcid might help even further? Fish addicts are also just tough. Maybe something like this, ground up and sprinkled over the top, would get him consider expanding his palette?

https://www.orijenpetfoods.com/en-US/dogs/dog-food/original%2C-freeze-dried-food-medallions/ds-ori-fdf-original.html

I could’ve sworn that was the Six Fish variety. I picked up some of this on sale (like $4 a bag!) and have been using it as treats for my cats. This one is very fishy to me!

[Peggy]

Thanks for the info.

I was pleasantly surprised that he ate the Smalls. Like devoured and licked clean. So maybe with age he’s expanded his palate. It’s been almost two years at least since I experimented with different foods. He definitely preferred the coarser varieties over the smooth. And he’s quite fond of the giant liver treats from Costco—a friend gave me some to try and I thought they’d be to big, but no.

So I think I’ll try the freeze dried and see how it goes.

Another possible factor in this is that his teeth were bad. They were apparently OK but then the vet that heads the practice saw him 13 months ago and said they were bad. She removed 9 teeth! He still has canines. The good news is that both his checkups since then have been good. The possible connection did not occur to me until just now as I typed this.