Raw Feeding Advice and Anecdotes Wanted - Cats and Dogs

[kaya842]

Sorry for the word-vomit below. I thought I could organize my thoughts a little better but no such luck. TLDR: what is the best affordable, simple raw routine for cats and dogs?

I’ve been dabbling in a bit of raw for our (now) 10 going on 11 yr old lab mix (spayed female) for 1.5-2 years now, mostly giving a premade mix or 80/10/10 grind in the PM with kibble in the AM. Now we also have a 1yr old Golden (intact male) with what the vet believes is a food allergy (ear infections, red itchy paws, no testing done) who has been on only kibble (Orijen then Essence now Diamond Naturals) but we’ve started feeding a raw egg with his PM kibble. We also have two fixed, 100% indoor only cats (3 year old male, 5 year old female). The female was just at the vet on Monday and DXed with crystals in her urine and recommended RX dry kibble. IME with the lab mix, a keto kibble was essential in getting excess weight off (20Lbs! And that was with her getting tightly controlled meals and no treats on weight loss kibbles pre keto). The closest I have found to replace the Visionary Pet is the Orijen/ Essence kibbles. We are on bag #2 of the Diamond Naturals as it seemed close enough for about half the cost. I don’t love it and neither does the Golden who could stand to gain a bit of weight. Raw is as close to keto kibble (likely better) as I can find AND raw comes up in several places for the cat’s crystals. So. I’d like to seriously look into getting the gang all on raw without going broke. Currently spending about $100/mo for the two cats between Dr Elseys dry food (male kitty loves it) and Tiki cat wet food. I’ve ordered more wet food to get Crystal kitty on all wet ASAP.

Goals/ Concerns:

• Golden is currently itchy but no ear infection or paw redness. Would like no itchy. We did just start bee pollen and spirulina from Spring Time today in hopes it will help.
• Golden has always eaten well until a few weeks after the transition to the Diamond Naturals. Now getting him to eat breakfast/ lunch is difficult. The meal with the egg is finished but slowly. Could be this kibble could be his age / metabolism slowing down. I’d like him to eat everything always.
• Golden could use a little weight. He’s very lean and loves to run and play.
• Golden is a STINKY boy. If raw can magically fix his BO I’d love it.
• Lab mix could lose 2-5 lbs. She is trim but with her age and history of CCL repairs I would love her to be leaner.
• Lab mix doesn’t have as much energy as she did on the true keto kibble. Could be the passage of time (about a year?) but I noticed immediately with the switch from Visionary that she was not as energetic.
• Lab mix is older and I’d love to curb any inflammation that might be present.
• Resolve crystals in female kitty prevent crystals in male kitty.
• Female cat needs to lose like 3-4 lbs (currently 12lbs but she is a runt and should be closer to 8-9).
• Both cats have dry skin/ dandruff that I’d love to resolve.
• For humans the concerns are cost (Goldie damn near eats us out of house and home with his calorie intake at roughly 1600/ 4 cups of kibble a day), convenience (we travel fairly frequently and rely on an auto feeder for the cats and easy to use kibble for dogs), simplicity (I don’t want to have to mad scientist add a million things to get everything to balance), and SO will not/ cannot handle anything that looks like a dead animal (no feeder mice, fish heads, etc grinds only). For the travel bit for the dogs we can probably do an air dried raw (Ziwi) as they’ve had it before and like it, it’s just $$$$.

We are pretty convinced raw is best for all the animals and we are willing to spend a bit more (though not substantially as we have a budget to keep) and do the learning and some prep but we are not able to devote hours to prep or our whole freezer to storage (we do have a separate deep freezer though it is NOT LARGE). I’ve read over the cat info site and am overwhelmed by it. I like the 80/10/10 grinds I get for the dog via my pet carnivore but worry about nutrient deficiencies (should I be adding a vit/ min supp if I did all 80/10/10 for the dogs?). I do rotate proteins (chicken, duck, turkey, muskrat, fish, pork).

Is this possible?

[Bluey]

My anecdote, every time over decades now we asked our vets, they rolled their eyes, said raw feeding brought all kinds of sick animals to the clinic, for too many reasons to count, so they could not recommend it.

In our performance dog club we had every so often someone trying it, no one did for long, so many reasons we process many raw foods.
One member, a breeder also, most were not, kept bragging how well her dogs looked on raw food, no one was willing to disagree, but they really didn’t.
Every time we had a vet give a talk in our meetings and how to feed came up, every vet and nutritionist advised in general againt it and gave all kinds of reasons.

That is my experience over half a century on that topic.

[poltroon]

My friend who is a very thoughtful, knowledgeable, experienced, and curious small animal vet, would echo Bluey’s information - she does not recommend raw or any homemade food.

She recommends Hills, Royal Canin, and Purina. The science and prescription diets are good foods. Purina makes its own food and is very careful

In particular, the niche diets like Diamond, Blue Buffalo, etc, especially the grain-free ones, are associated with a lot of pet pathologies. They usually contract out their manufacturing and don’t directly control their production, which is another thing to consider.

In my own small household, I saw my cats become dramatically healthier in their coats when I switched to Hills and Royal Canin, and the one with a heart murmur had that heart murmur disappear.

[kaya842]

I will say that Diamond manufactures their own food, from what I understand. They are semi local to me and I’ve heard/ read that they do a lot of manufacturing for other companies as well. They aren’t what I have considered a niche/ boutique food (such as Zignature which I fed many many years ago). The one I feed is grain inclusive as that was a concern of mine as well having a Golden (breed is allegedly predisposed to DCM). I have looked at Purina, Hills, Royal for a legume free, grain inclusive, high protein food and they really don’t have great options. The keto kibble the lab mix did best on was like 45% protein, so the 30/20 mixes are still quite a bit lower.

[cardinale]

I tried for my cats. Bought a $$$ grinder and other equipment, followed the directions on a vet’s website, and here’s what I found: it took me literally all day (8+ hours) to make a batch that lasted less than a month. Had to partially debone the chicken to achieve the right mineral balance, cook partially to kill surface bacteria, then grind, mix up and add nutrient additives, transfer the food into glass containers, clean the equipment and surface sterilize work surfaces, etc. etc. etc.

There were basically two flavors–chicken and/or rabbit. Some cats ate it fine, others got tired of the limited variety.

The entire experience turned into a dreaded ordeal when I would have to set aside an entire day once a month to make cat food. Also, I’m a vegan and really didn’t like handling raw meat. My vet poo-pooed the idea anyway, saying she saw just as many cats living long lives that got fed absolute junk (cheapie dry food only). After a few months I threw in the towel, going back to feeding mainly Fancy Feast Pates, with a little dry food as a treat. Lots of variety available there and dishing out cooked food is much simpler, I confess.

Now, I did think the cats’ coats shined more on the raw and I wouldn’t doubt that it might be better for them as long as appropriate vitamins are added. I guess you could get more variety with frozen mice, etc. but I admit I just didn’t want to deal with the whole process. YMMV.

[Texarkana]

Anecdote:

I had a pet-sitting client who transitioned from high quality dog and cat food to raw diets for all.

Her cats ate mainly whole feeder mice (not helpful for you due to your SO) with occasional quail eggs and other sundries.

Dogs ate a variety of meat cuts with and without the bones. She made sure they got organ meat and raw chicken eggs. Allegedly she had some butcher contacts and grocery store contacts that would give her unsold scraps and stuff frozen at its expiration date to keep her costs down.

The animals looked good before, but holy heck they looked amazing on their raw diets. They were healthy and had almost no pet odor. I knew them for years.

It was a lot of work.

Every vet I know advises against raw diets. But her animals did incredible.

[Bluey]

Animals do smell and like to be smelly.
Not smelling may fit our more smell impaired lives, but dogs?
They really don’t mind smells, in fact, they live for them, is their main sense for their environment.

Now, the one breeder I knew long ago that fed raw, her dogs looked ok but a bit on the thinner side, which can be ok also and their hair colors shiny but pale.
I wondered then if they were short on copper, that gives hair color its better optical qualities.

I expect that feeding raw, if done right, works, if not fed quite right, maybe it doesn’t do as well, but won’t hurt.

[Simkie]

For the inappetance: try pepcid. I toss it at pretty much all small animal inappetance/puking/gastric thing that pops up and it very rarely doesn’t resolve it. Super tool to have in the box. Great dosage chart here:

Using Famotidine For Dogs: The Complete Guide

For easy raw feeding for cats:

I use ALNutrin. I grind meat (no bones) with my KitchenAid mixer (with the meat grinder attachment) and add the pre mix and dry liver. It goes into containers sized for one day, and into the freezer. I do one raw meal a day and one canned, and it’s worked very well here.

https://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/shop_online.html

I do Orijen kibble for the dog, so no advice there.

[Texarkana]

@Bluey

Animals do smell and like to be smelly.
Not smelling may fit our more smell impaired lives, but dogs?

I don’t think any pet owner is upset not to have “dog odor.” And their poop piles not only didn’t smell, but just kind of naturally disintegrated quickly, greatly reducing yard cleaning. And have you ever known a cat litter box with no odor? It was amazing.

The amount of work she put into it, though, is not something I could replicate. It was hard enough to implement when the entire menu was pre-planned for me.

I agree for the average person without the time or mental faculty to truly do it right, it’s probably quite easy to screw up. That’s why I’ve always suspected most vets are so opposed.

[MissusS]

I feed raw, have done so for about 10 years. I have always taken the lazy/expensive route and bought it fully prepared. My dogs love it and they are healthy with gorgeous coats. My vet does not say anything negative about feeding raw, and always have commented on how healthy the dogs are.

I supplement with omega 3 and cosequin for both dogs. We also give carrots and other fruits/vegtables as treats.

I will say our new girl, Scout, has some itchies which could be allergies, so I may consider a different protein source in the future. She is a GSD and will scratch multiple times a day, chew on her toes occasionally, and loves getting full body scritches. I have recently started adding camelina oil to her breakfast to see if that helps. She came to us in late June and was VERY itchy then but once she shed out her malnourished coat she improved a lot. We did give her two rounds of cytopoint to help break the cycle as well.

I am guessing feeding pre-made raw complete meals is out of your budget. For my two (25kg and 30kg) I feed just under 3 lbs of raw per day, and this costs me about $400 CAD per month (and rising as the cost of everything keeps going up…). Five years ago this same amount cost me half that.

When I run out of my regular brand I have sometimes gone to the pet store near me and purchased some other brands to bridge the gap until my regular order is available… and I can always tell by their gassiness, quality of poops, and coat quality whether or not that formulation works for them. I have two brands that I really like (both made locally), all the other brands I’ve tried are just not a great fit for my dogs. So if you are going to explore some options, know that not all pre-made raw patties are created equal

[GraceLikeRain]

I did raw for about a year and found it both disgusting and exhausting. I worried constantly about getting meat juice on things and it felt super unsanitary.

I also did home cooked for about a year. I used a recipe created by a canine nutritionist with appropriate supplementation. Pup was recently diagnosed with cancer so I was happy to do the work but wow it was a ton of work to do it well.

Both options would take me about half a day each month and multiple dishwasher loads to then take up half my freezer.

I’ve got friends who have done raw for years for great results or homecooked. Pup did not look or act differently on any of those vs premium kibble. Ironically, he’s now on science diet hydrolyzed protein which is counter to every fiber of my being with the best results of any diet in 13 years.

[DMK]

I fed the cats whole raw rabbit and chicken from Hare Today for a good long time, it wasn’t their only food, they also got taste of the wild because I didn’t want to deal with the taurine supplement requirements critical for cats (although since this was whole ground animal except for the head, hide and organs) there was some taurine, just not enough. It was incredibly expensive and I preferred about 50lbs at once, it wasn’t as exhausting as some people because it came in 1lb packaging, basically like ground meat and I would make the chicken rabbit mix and freeze it in ice cube trays so I made a big bag of 1oz cubes to keep in the freezer to defrost nightly. But again, every day I had to defrost it and if I didn’t… No breakfast.

And all that would have been ok, except 50% of the felines at any point time would boycott it. Way too expensive and timer consuming to not be eaten was my ultimate decision. So I transitioned them to fancy feast chicken pate (and taste of the wild). The pate is grain free, even the picky one eats it with gusto, and coat, physical condition, poops and weight didn’t change when I switched off raw

[jherold]

I fed the BARF diet designed by Dr. Billingsworth about 20yrs ago. Feeding the raw meat and bones was easy. The hard part was making up the diet that was supposed to mimic the intestinal components of herbivores to balance the diet using veggies etc. The dogs didn’t care for that part of the diet. I quit when I got divorced and didn’t have the time or money to keep it up. But the dogs looked and felt great.

I still feed raw meaty bones about once a week to keep their teeth clean. The rest of the time they get Diamond naturals lamb and rice. (One shepherd has a chicken allergy). I’ve fed Diamond for years and my dogs look and feel great.

[Kyrabee]

I had two cats I fed a prepared raw diet (RadCat) for a long time (8 yrs)…until the company went out of business. When I tried other prepared raw food they were a no go and I gave up. At the time, I wasn’t cooking/preparing food for me much so no way was I preparing/cooking for the cats .

The current cat gets 1/2 can (3oz) I and Love and You chicken or turkey pate and that gets topped with a tablespoonful of Feline Natural freeze-dried raw. She gets that twice a day. She licks the bowl clean. She gets a bit of grain free kibble but as a treat rather than a significant part of her diet.

[pony_baloney]

I’ve been feeding my dogs raw since my first one back in 2000. She was my largest dog and I didn’t know of any commercial raw foods then so I made it myself. Lots of work sourcing the chicken backs, freezing to store, pureeing vegetables, adding supplements. Started it because of allergies that caused her to chew her feet constantly; that disappeared except for a short time in the fall.

Last and current dog are small (6 and 7 lbs.) and I fed Answers to the former and Steve’s Real Food to the current one. It’s much easier for me, especially since she gets only about 4 oz./day. I change the proteins every three bags and add cow’s milk kefir as snacks. The larger dog ate whole chicken wings and backs, but the little ones would probably inhale them so their food is ground.

My vet is pro-raw but said she hasn’t noticed much difference between dogs that are raw fed vs. kibble. My dogs have always been lean and odor-free. If I had a cat I’d probably feed Steve’s as well. The only sups I add are herbs for joints, teeth, flea/tick prevention and a sup for bladder weakness. I don’t think I could go back to kibble, and decent canned is pricier than raw.

[DiamondJubilee]

I have been feeding my dog raw since I picked her up as a puppy - she will be 3 in a couple of weeks (her breeder started a raw dog food company in Canada and it has taken off). I fed all of my other dogs kibble their whole lives and they have done well (my lab lived until he was 14 years old).

I was very curious on raw feeding as my pup came with a months supply of raw and I was going to wean her onto kibble, but I reached out to a few friends who have been feeding raw for many, many years. They suggested some reading material (Feeding the Dog by Dr. Conor Brady, a few books from Dr. Judy Morgan and some websites - Dogs Naturally and Dogs First). After some research, reaching out to my pups breeder as well as a few raw feeding friends, I decided to keep up with the raw feeding.

I have never been so happy with the look of a dog I have ever owned. She is a tri coloured large breed dog and her coat glistens and has tons of energy at 3 - she is still young of course (my husband keeps telling me to change her to kibble to make her quieter ha ha). She has been very healthy, I was worried at first and did a full blood panel when she was a year old to ensure she was getting everything she needed in her diet. Her blood work came back perfect which made me feel a lot better. Small poops that go to nothing really (my lab had the biggest smelliest poops ever!!) and I feed a rotation of proteins (they suggest at least 3 different types a month to help prevent allergies. Even if you feed kibble, they suggest changing your proteins up from a young age).

I even change up where I purchase my raw from, so different suppliers as well. I can feed my girl (115lb) for about $150 - $250/month depending on what proteins I’m feeding or what brands (chicken being the cheapest of course). I do feed veggies that I cook, she has whatever I have for dinner, just in a small amount. Some of my proteins are just 80/10/10 and some contain veggies at 70/10/10/10, it just depends on what I have happened to have purchased for the month.

I do feed an oil of some sort (salmon, herring and even W3) at 20ml/day for her omegas. I do offer chewing bones 1 to 2 times a week (beef knuckle bones, beef ribs etc) and raw meaty bones 2-3x week (chicken backs, turkey necks, lamb flanks etc), farm fresh chicken egg 3 x week but honestly, nothing too complicated.

My girl does not have any allergies (is not very common within the breed thank goodness) but I do feed bovine colostrum which can be great for allergies (boots the immune system, which is why I feed it). I do not grind up my own mixtures and balance it with the correct amount of bone/secreting organs etc. I let the pros to that and I just feed their premixes but make sure I do change up the proteins (as the organ meat changes as well so it supports a more balanced diet over time).

Cats are slightly different and I haven’t really researched much of it. They do not need any veggies and need more taurine. I’m sure there are many premades out there for them and I would stick to that.

My vet is open minded and has not said anything to me either way about her diet. He is aware I feed her raw and has never had any complaints on her health or said anything negative to me. I have no issue with anyone feeding kibble of course. To each their own! I fed kibble for many years as well, I’m just very happy with the outcome of my dog feeding her a raw diet.

I only feed my girl about 1.5lb/day and she could lose about 5-8 lbs to be honest. She is quite active on the farm and is athletic compared to the size of her. I just need to be more strict when I feed things like meal replacement bones and subtract more on her actual meal to balance out calories. Most premades will have the calories and fat % so if your pup needs to gain or lose weight, you can stick to certain proteins/mixes to help adjust their weights.

[DiamondJubilee]

I meant to add for odours, I wouldn’t say my girl is less or more stinky than my kibble fed dogs. She loves to roll in things so I do bathe her often anyway. She loves to be stinky! But I must say she does not have stinky breath. At all. My kibble fed lab had awful breath. I couldn’t stand to be close to him when he was panting as he stunk me out. He had some tartar build up, but nothing too bad for his age.

My raw fed dog has sparkling white teeth. Even some horse show friends notice how white her teeth are and they don’t know how I feed her. Bones do help remove tartar and the diet really does help with breath and gas. She almost never farts which is a god send! My lab could clear a room like no bodys buisness.

[Bluey]

Decades ago, our vets used to say to feed from regular sources of proteins, not the esoteric ones.
If a pet at any time develops allergies, it probably is to those to their body now seen as foreign proteins.
If pet has not been exposed to those like duck or potatoes or odd and more rare proteins, some times those work as next products to try and hopefully pet not become allergic to those.
Variety is good, but leave some off, for the rare dog that may need something different their body is not reacting to yet.

As for feeding bones, some dogs get worn teeth if fed too many.
I know a border collie breeder/herding dog trainer and competitor that experienced that and had to cut back how many such he was feeding.

I always brush my dog’s teeth, mostly because they demand it every time I brush mine, they like it, so their teeth have always been super clean, into old age and never had one that needed teeth cleaning by the vet.
My last dog passed on at 14 1/2 and still had shiny pearly whites, but also good genetics helps,

[Kemosabe]

I feed raw to two of my younger dogs, and home cooked for the two older dogs. All Aussies.

I have been feeding raw and home cooked for 15 years. Dogs are healthy, active, beautiful teeth and coats, no odor (unless one particular girl goes and rolls in cow or horse manure, her choice of eau de perfume). Only one of my dogs ever needed a dental: for an abscessed tooth. He sadly passed last year at age 15. None of my dogs have ever needed a dental cleaning.

I rotate proteins every day or every other day. I avoid chicken, but do feed beef, pork, turkey, salmon, venison; some exotics (goat, rabbit, pheasant). I use Honest Kitchen’s dehydrated Base Mixes with Green Juju’s dehydrated vegetables.

For the home cooked meals I use a crockpot. Throw in the protein and add a variety of veggies: sweet potato, celery, blueberries, apples, cauliflower, squash (if in season). Sometimes chopped fresh mung beans. Cook on low.

All the dogs get the “gravy” from the crockpot with the veggies, plus the dehydrated veggies and grains. Several times a week all dogs get goat milk rather than the gravy. I feed raw eggs twice a week. My dogs love alfalfa sprouts, so they get that on top of their meals three or four times a week.

I do rotate fats: ghee, coconut oil, camellia oil.

I supplement with a multi vitamin mineral, Chlorella, fish oil, soil based probiotics. I recently discovered Solutions Pet Products gelatin (good source of collagen and elastin) for my older girl who is getting a little stiff in the mornings.

My dogs get raw bones once or twice a week

None of my vets has ever complained about my dogs’ diet. Most say that they don’t recommend raw and home cooked because their clients would be overwhelmed by it.

I recently had to go to a new vet practice as my vet retired. Took the dogs in for their yearly healthy dog check up. After the examinations the vet said, “just keep doing what you’re doing because your dogs look and feel great.” I do a full blood panel on the dogs once a year. When the vet called me later with the test results she said their blood work “was perfect.”

Caveat: I do start my litter puppies on kibble (Life’s Abundance). I tell the new puppy owners to start introducing cooked proteins and veggies added to the kibble at three to four months of age. At six months they can start transitioning to more cooked or raw. Some owners stay with kibble. Others have gone raw or prepackaged cooked (Farmers Dog, Ever More)

I would never tell someone that she/he should give up kibble. It’s a personal choice.

[MunchingonHay]

Firstly, I am 100% pro raw diet either fresh or freeze dried. I am a huge fan. BUT I do not have the time or desire to weight, portion out or purchase large amounts of meat, organ, bone, minerals, etc.

Secondly, I would get the golden off of chicken, lamb, venison, salmon and grains. He is what is called a “hot dog” with Traditional Chinese Med (TCM) and needs a cooling or natural diet. Beef, pork, white fish, shellfish, bison, kangaroo, rabbit. BUT that is just my opinion.

For pet parents starting out, I love Primal: https://primalpetfoods.com/ its easy and readily available.

I fed my cats this: https://primalpetfoods.com/products/feline-freeze-dried-nuggets I used to blend it up in a blender, store in an airtight container, scoop out and rehydrate to make a sloppy mush. The cats will take your face off for it.

For the dogs, I have feeding a combination of; Steves Real Food, Zignature Kibble, K9 Naturals and Primal for 15+ yrs. My senior dogs have all had great energy, good poops, shiny, soft coats, super good joints (x-rays for proof), bright clear eye, white choppers, low ‘stinky dog’ smell.

Currently I am feeding a mix of Zignature (for additional calories for the young dog) and K9 Natural. The only reason I dropped Steve’s real food is because it comes in smaller bags and I prefer larger bags. Now that I am down to one dog, I may reintroduce Steve’s into the mix.

I also add: raw eggs, roughly one a week per dog
tinned fish/seafood like mussels, oysters: once a week for a good fat
beef trimmings when I prep food for the week (small amounts with little to no fat) including any blood when thawed out
salmon skins, dehyrated chicken hearts, any Vital Essential’s treat
carrots, blueberries, melons, apples, squash,

I just made some bone broth and added celery, carrots and a sweet potato.

I always make sure taurine is an added ingredient in the foods I feed. Its essential for heart health.

When I switched my 6yr old, 28!!pound Siamese cat from the shelter, I switched him slowly at first from kibble to a raw (see above) and in a year he was a healthy 10 lbs.