JB has a history of internet expertise. Their post implies they’re a human and medical education curriculum developer, so I was simply curious where they obtained that training.
I’m a veterinarian and a former vet school professor. I don’t feed raw and I don’t recommend it because of the infectious disease risk to both pets and to people, particularly immunocompromised people. My opinion was formed during my own veterinary training because at that time, at that institution, all patients fed raw were housed in the isolation ward to reduce risk to the staff (PPE) and other patients.
Actually I’ve been on COTH for longer than many posters have
Been alive.
Sorry if I misinterpreted the tone your comment, some of us longtimers
Appreciate the input of JB since
She has so generously shared
Her vast knowledge in so many areas of animal health.
We really value the time and effort she has given to COTH for many years.
Carry on.
Believe it or not, someone doesn’t have to “be” something to know some of “it”
I talk to enough vets, large animal and small, including mine and the several who work at the practices who serves as their backups, and nutrition is a tiny part of their DVM degree.
I have several friends who just completed, or within the last few years, their DVM, and they also tell me they don’t get real nutritional training, and this is in schools around the country.
Several of my friends are PhD nutritionists, or have MScs in equine nutrition areas and work in an area where they’re helping formulate diets, and who are NPAS certified and work for feed companies and all of them have vets sending clients to them for nutritional help because they don’t have the training (even if they did have the time)
That’s a lot of vets from a lot of different universities.
“internet experience” doesn’t negate information, I choose my sources wisely
So it really isn’t 100% false that vets get little in the way of nutritional training
it sure does not imply that at all, you inferred it.
My one & only try at feeding raw was a relatively recent purchase of Fresh Pet for cats.
Went over like a lead balloon.
Never tried with my dog - LabX (probable Great Dane from his size) - but that was 40yrs ago & Raw wasn’t a Thing for urban dogowners.
He lived to 17, PTS when arthritic hips couldn’t be helped by aspirin any longer.
A friend fed her JRTs raw for a while, not sure she still does with current pack (2 JRT & BC).
When she had first dogs I was at Whole Foods with her. She bought some unusual vegetables & I asked what she was making. “Oh, not for me. These are for the dogs”
I will definitely agree that nutrition is not the standout in most vet’s repertoire. My horse vet used to refer people to me to help develop plans for their horses
I don’t personally feed raw just because I don’t have the time to do so (and I travel a lot). I do cook for my dogs as a topper. The folks that I know that feed raw tend to be the more knowledgeable, hands -on pet owners and their animals generally look fabulous.
I think as long as you are safe with it and know how to balance the diet- you’re far better off than a lot of the commercial feeds available.
Oh yeah no - they need to be convinced it’s actually food (oh the irony…).
My first two cats (aged 9 and 6 at the time - 2009) wanted nothing to do with raw meat at first… they were like “sniff sniff… what is this? are you trying to poison us?”. Some chicken broth, some tuna juice, mixing small pieces in with their kibble… it took a while… but i managed to transition them fully within a week or two, IIRC.
Sorry, don’t mean to be picky, but Fresh Pet for cats and dogs is not raw, it is cooked.
I understand that immunocompromised people need to be careful …but raw isn’t the only source of potential salmonella and listeria. Look at the recalls and warnings for processed dog food and treats this year: Mid America Pet Food, Blue Ridge Beef, Carolina Prime Pet, Gaines Pet Treats, Viva, Pedigree.
In 2023 Purina had a recall on Pro Plan due to elevated levels of vitamin D.
As for the human side, immune compromised people face a lot bigger danger from human food: there have been 1,908 food/cosmetic recalls in the fiscal year ending October 2024…Boar’s Head, and Macdonald’s come to mind along with eggs, chicken and turkey, waffles, baby carrots, onions, and celery. In November 2024 it was ground beef.
In 2023 it was Romaine lettuce and prepared packaged salads from a variety of farms.
Raw feeding isn’t for every owner or every dog. What we all need to face is the industrialized food system which doesn’t prevent infectious diseases.
Sure, the whole world around us and, if you watch pets, where they sit and what they stick their noses and tongues in is not the cleanest, but …
… that is a big BUT, you can sure lean the chances of less contamination in your favor by being aware of what and where you get your produce, how you handle and prepare and store it.
Basic hygiene rules keep us a bit safer in the lottery of pathogens our environment is, like processing raw milk as an example.
We had a goat dairy 50+ years ago, sold to the public that doctors recommended buy our milk and never had anyone we know get sick from our milk.
Then laws were passed that required us to buy expensive machinery to process that milk, as best practice determined at that time and we had to close, were not big enough for that kind of management.
At the same time, we recognized that it was truly the best, for the general public, to have milk that was processed for that chance some may be contaminated, as we knew some can be.
To say look, there is contamination every place, not just in raw produce just means, sure, but by processing we can minimize part of that risk.
The same principles apply to all else, including sourcing pet food.
The perceived advantage in feeding raw food is very small, insignificant if there is any.
Run your own test, managed properly, use good products, proper hygiene and feed both ways and you will see, pets really do fine either way.
I think that a bit of kennel blindness applies when we try to gauge by our own measures if one or the other is really better and ascribe any changes to one only factor, as if the food is raw or processed.
Why?
There are way too many factors to nutrition, not one single one as raw or processed.
Is it not wonderful that we live where we can do as we wish and believe and insist that, in our opinion, we have different ideas what and how to manage our lives and those of our pets and that is ok?
As they say today, “you do you” rules.
And that doesn’t negate the fact that my actual experience via the internet is that very very few vets I run across, either directly, or as a result of people asking for help, have much nutritional education when it comes to actually feeding the animal.
I don’t have to be a vet, or vet tech, or have taken vet courses, to know that.
Dog and cat food groups on FB seem to be on-par with hoofcare groups for “difference of opinion” in-fighting, cattiness, and downright “I’m right, you’re WRONG” spats. I was kicked out of one - and then openly mocked - for adding a 5% raw spinach mix to my cat food (95% raw meat), as suggested by many fresh cat food recipes. It was bulk as my cats were quite tubby.
However. I have found a new level of overlord-bullying: reptile groups. Reptile groups - even “DIY Habitat ideas” groups - make threads like this look like we are all Pollyannas at a picnic.
So, no matter how passionate the raw-v-dry dog food brawl becomes on this thread, it will still be a purring kitten compared to a newb herp owner versus beardie people on the warpath.
Herp people take herps very, very seriously…
Anyway. I thought that might make folks laugh.
I feed 50% raw, 50% dry. My raw mix is meat (usually roo with beef fat added) and a supplement made by Wombaroo (who are the go-to company for native animal nutrition, infant milk replacement for multiple species, and exotic animal supplements). I’ve done the whole “DIY fresh food from scratch” and found it so overwhelming that I went to a 50/50 model with a supplement, rather than mucking around with blending vegetables.
I always find it interesting? ironic? etc that we trust people to figure out nutrition for their children but we clutch pearls when they do it for their dogs/cats/horses
Mine was already feeling so crappy by the time I figured out what she had done that I didn’t even have the heart to scold her. Wallow in your bloated misery, asshole.
I don’t trust most people to be able to do that either LOL
And yes, I get it that sometimes, getting kids to eat what’s nourishing isn’t always easy, so I’m not talking about that issue. But given the health crisis in north america (and growing in other parts of the world) directly related to poor eating habits, if someone can’t feed themselves properly, they can’t feed their kid properly
