In reference to the Chronicle’s article on Carsyn Korotkin winning the pony medal (she did ride unbelievably) I want to ask about qualifications for re rides. I saw some discourse elsewhere that someone who had gotten bucked off at a show was allowed a re ride because the sound that spooked her horse was caused by someone accidentally dropping a drag on concrete (or something of the like). I know that you can get re rides in IEA and IHSA, but you can’t get a re ride if you fall off the horse. Are there any guidelines on this or is it simply up to the judge’s discretion? I had never heard of something like that allowed at regular shows.
I had never heard of this before but in the situation mentioned it seemed only fair that she get a chance to ride that last line over again. And I hope someone grabbed those kids who made the commotion and set them straight about their behavior. I know it wasn’t intentional but they should be made aware of the potential harm they could have caused, luckily the rider didn’t fall or get hurt.
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I agree! I would be both shocked and not shocked if they were also pony kids… I remember trying to be so quiet and careful at shows because I never wanted to disturb the rider in the ring!
I wonder what the limits are to using this? I am sure it was helpful to have a company videoing the show that they could then replay and see that it was a direct result of the kids in the stands.
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Having video available was definitely to the rider’s advantage, I’m curious what would have happened if the judges didn’t have the ability to review the bolting pony and the kids who caused it. Obviously the judges saw the pony bolt but they might not have seen the kids who caused it.
I wonder if there is a difference between someone’s personal video they might have taken on a cell phone versus a broadcasted event also.
I believe this happened at a Maclay regionals on the west coast at one point. Multiple horses stopped at one jump in particular. The thinking was that the way the fill was set, it was creating an optical illusion the horses couldn’t read. A number of riders were offered rerides. My memory may be a little spotty, but I seem to recall this being discussed on here before, so maybe someone else remembers better.
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I don’t know… I think it’s a very very dangerous precedent to set. It gives the judges more discretion to hand pick their winner than they already have.
Sh!t happens. Unfortunately that is the nature of the whole horse showing thing.
I think everyone has probably had a round where they’d like a do-over for circumstances beyond their control (i.e. loose dog runs into ring, distracting spectator, loose horse on the show ground, wind blows plant over, hail storm mid round, etc.) but this is the first time I’ve ever seen judges actually grant a “do over.”
Will be interesting to see what new rule proposals and changes we get as a result.
editing to add: it sucks that this involves a kid, because she rode so well and I do not want to take anything away from her.
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I remember that! I think it generated a lot of controversy at the time, but I can’t quite remember the circumstances. I thought maybe it was that the choice to give re rides was quite late?
It’s not common, but it happens.
A friend of mine had a tree blow over in front of a jump in a hunter class at Lake Placid a few years ago. His horse stopped at the jump, and the judges conferred for a second and then said he could either start the course over, or continue from that point once the tree was fixed.
His horse had done the first part of the course really well, so he just circled and continued from that point, and he ended up getting a good ribbon in the class.
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At least in IHSA, you could get a re-ride after a fall up until fairly recently (if the situation warranted it). Not sure if that is a new rule.
Out of curiosity I went on CMH and watched the round, on video you can’t hear or see what happened. I would be interested to hear from someone who actually witnessed it how dramatic the noise was. You clearly see the pony have a strong reaction that indisputably led to the chip. So on one hand if the judges saw what happened, I can understand not wanting that to kill a kid’s result at something they’ve worked for all year.
At the same time, I feel like disruptive noise in the stands is a daily occurrence in the indoors at WEC and I’ve seen horses spook in some of the derby classes as a result, and no one even discusses a re-ride!
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It was a low black box under a jump that was the first in a line set against the side of the ring where there was a lot of clattering of silverware as people ate dinner. Lots of stops. At least one person fell off IIRC. I don’t remember the year but it was definitely pre-COVID. Also don’t remember what was done about it—I recall a lot of discussion. I may have done an unofficial Maclay report here that year; will see if I can find it.
Report. Dropbox links are sadly no longer available.
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I have never seen or heard of this happening. It’s a horse show. Stuff happens. That’s part of the test of a show environment? It stinks when it happens to you. It has happened to all of us (thanks jump crew for jumping out of the woods immediately next to the combination right while I was jumping through it, I had always wondered if my horse could do a 90 degree turn in a one stride) and I don’t think anyone got a re-ride. It’s an extremely weird precedent to set and even more eyebrow raising that it was a big name that got it.
If they wanted to let her re-ride to build her and the pony’s confidence, I love it - the spirit of pony finals. To have her win…
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I just typed elsewhere that, for the longest time, I thought judges in equitation classes had some discretion in how they penalized riders encountering trouble (like with downed rails – was it rider error? Ding. Was it just garbage luck? Less of a ding).
And for that longest time, I also thought a rider in an equitation class might even be nominally rewarded for handling trouble well.
I haven’t seen a replay but watched the class yesterday. Of course I was actually looking away momentarily when the spook happened, and I missed the chip. I heard the commentators talking about the lousy luck of a commotion over the rail and that was it. I didn’t realize there was a chip, too.
This sounds like a situation where I’d rather the rider be penalized in context than given a re-ride. The other online discussion was trying to figure out what merited a re-ride and so far it’s sounding like act-of-God stuff (jumps blowing over), not stuff going on over the rail. Who else remembers McLain Ward losing the GP at Devon at the last fence because of some ringside nonsense? I’m pretty sure that happened.
Is there a standard deduction for a chip? Yes, I have a copy of Judging WTF but it’s in the other room and I’m lazy. Why can’t it be judged it in context like dropping a rail?
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Would bet $ the pony had earplugs in
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Not to mention, both judges and kid’s family all live in Wellington.
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What are the rules around your child training with the judge of a class your client is in?
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Had a loose horse from cross country running along the arena fence right in the middle of my dressage test at AECs. No re-ride for the couple of moves I completed on now very wound up horse before they rang the bell to stop me. Rest of my test was crap after we resumed.
Friend was in the middle of a championship-deciding round at an AA show years ago when the water truck in the arena next to her backfired. No reride for her.
Sh*t happens sometimes and that is part of horse showing. This is an awful, awful precedence to set, especially at this level.
A horse spooking at something outside of the arena is different than a poorly set jump that affects everyone or the wind knocking down a jump and making it literally impossible to complete the course.
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I don’t love this precedent outside of IEA/IHSA.
I think this situation is different from the 2019 Maclay Regionals mentioned up thread, where a jump was changed after about 20% of the riders had gone. In that case, 50% of the first portion of the class had had significant difficulty at that jump. It was clearly an issue of course construction and someone’s best intentions in course design became an unfair test of equine eyesight and perception instead of riding skill. The issue impacted a significant portion of the class and was expected to continue to do so. Changing it was potentially a horse welfare issue and, given the number of falls that had already occurred at that fence, an issue of rider safety.
This problem appeared to impact one rider. And, having shown in a number of indoor arenas with big echo-y seating areas, you can’t tell me that was the only time in the entire class that the spectators were disruptive. In that sense it’s a predictable disruption- unlike a helicopter flying over the arena on its way to land at a neighboring property, a jump blowing down, a goose flying into the side of the horse’s face during the class, the judge running out of the judge’s box because of a swarm of hornets, or the entire county fire department blowing past with lights and sirens blazing. These are all situations where I have seen the judge and steward give the option to re-run a ride or a class. You don’t expect those things to happen at a horse show, but you do expect people to be loud and kids to be obnoxious in the stands.
I lost a medal final as a junior because of similar disruption from the stands in an echo-y indoor arena- I don’t remember if someone ran down the stairs or fell down them, but it was a commotion after fence 10, and my horse spooked and bolted. The wall and a pulley rein were used to stop. It was the trip of my life until that point. That’s horse showing.
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