re-seeding a crab grass infested paddock

[kcmel]

There was a similar thread about renovating a hayfield recently but I thought there might be some paddock-specific ideas.

We have an ~2 acre paddock that has gotten over-run with crab grass. Over the years we have tried overseeding and corn gluten, but the crabgrass always wins and blows out the regular grass.

We are debating the best way to re-seed. Kill all the crabgrass and plow under deep, as gumtree recommended on the other thread. Or no-till drill seed after killing the crabgrass (if we can find somewhere to rent one that our 24 hp tractor can handle).

Any other ideas?

Also, for SE PA any recommendations for a grass that will give a solid ground cover that can withstand the crabgrass in the spring? I was thinking just doing fescue, since we have geldings. Or maybe a mix with orchard grass? We have always used the high quality pasture mixes before, but I want something really sturdy.

Thanks!

[neversaynever]

Can I ask why you want to get rid of the crabgrass? It makes an excellent, tough summer forage for horses that stands up to abuse. It also reseeds itself.

Because of the weather in the late fall and winter can limit pasture time and I end up feeding hay anyway, I have been slowly turning my pastures into a mix of mostly crabgrass and other warmer season grasses. I do still have some fescue and orchard in the mix.

An orchard pasture should be completely reseeded, per my extension agent, at least every 7 years. Fescue and orchard don’t stand up to grazing below 3 inches in height, especially in the summer when it is dormant. If the paddock is 2 acres, unless you rotate frequently and maintain a healthy stand, it will likely end up with a lot of weeds or crabgrass again.

http://www.caes.uga.edu/commodities/fieldcrops/forages/Ga_Cat_Arc/2002/Aug02.pdf

[keatssu]

We have crabgrass issues, and I understand why you want to get rid of it. I would kill it and then seed with a drill press if at all possible. We made the mistake of tilling - apparently crabgrass seeds can lie dormant in the soil for decades!

We have sown with the press and also with the broadcast spreader along with aeration. The drilling was so much more effective. We had to borrow our neighbor’s tractor because ours isn’t big enough to pull the press.

[kcmel]

@neversaynever;8820049

Can I ask why you want to get rid of the crabgrass? It makes an excellent, tough summer forage for horses that stands up to abuse. It also reseeds itself.

Because it dies off so early in the fall the horses have nothing to graze on. And it is late coming up in the spring.

We do have other paddocks, and the two horses aren’t on this one at all once the ground gets mucky in the fall until late April or so. I let them graze on it most of the day, and they are blocked off of it overnight. Much of the time they have access to it they are in their run-in shed avoiding flies. So when it has “real” grass instead of crabgrass we have to mow it regularly.

[neversaynever]

[QUOTE=kcmel;8820509]
Because it dies off so early in the fall the horses have nothing to graze on. And it is late coming up in the spring.

We do have other paddocks, and the two horses aren’t on this one at all once the ground gets mucky in the fall until late April or so. I let them graze on it most of the day, and they are blocked off of it overnight. Much of the time they have access to it they are in their run-in shed avoiding flies. So when it has “real” grass instead of crabgrass we have to mow it regularly.[/QUOTE]

I just asked because a lot of people don’t know that crabgrass is good for grazing also. I do understand about it coming up later and dying down quicker in the fall. Mud is no fun. We have four mixed pastures now - some predominately summer grass and some predominately cool-season, but all have a mixture. If you don’t have the room to do that, you definitely need to get what works best for you.

When we first got our property it was all brambles, brush and sedge. We first got a soil test done to determine what nutrients and lime we needed. We mowed it really short and got it limed (it really takes about 3-6 months for the lime to take effect). We let it start growing again and hit it with the generic roundup to kill off everything in the early fall (like sept/oct, but may be different for you). Like keatssu, our tractor was not big enough and didn’t have the rear hydraulics for a seed drill, so we hired someone to come out to drill the pastures with orchard and some low/non-endophyte fescue (learned later that I should have saved the money on the non-endophyte fescue as the endophyte fescue just comes back) and apply fertilizer. We kept the horses off the reseeded pastures for the rest of the fall through winter and most of the spring, until we had mowed a couple times and the stand was good. It was beautiful for several years (it’s been almost 10 yrs now), but even with over 10 acres in grass, 4 large pastures to rotate through, and taking them off part of the day and most of the winter months, the 4 horses and dry weather did their thing and the weeds have crept back - esp dock and smartweed (grrrr, hate that stuff). We did drill more seed and broadcast some years (also added a little annual rye and small grains to the mix - mine aren’t IR, just fatties), adjust the pH and fertilize during that time, but did not do a wholesale rework or really intensive herbicides. The orchardgrass is almost completely gone, but we still have some decent fescue. Three of my four horses are really easy keepers and we limit pasture time in winter anyway because it is usually too wet (their hooves would destroy the grass), so we recently made the decision not to spend a ton of time and money babying the pastures anymore. I still have to limit pasture and put grazing muzzles on three of them.

In your case, if it a choice between fescue and orchard I would consider going with the fescue if you don’t plan to breed. It stands up to use more then the orchard. However, You may want to talk with your extension agent as they will have a good idea on the different grasses (maybe bluegrass?) and seed types that will work best for your area.

http://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/forages/pastures/animals/pasture-and-hay-for-horses

http://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/forages/species

It’s almost planting season!

[ElementFarm]

we have quite a bit of crabgrass mixed into our pastures (the balance being orchard and Bermuda). Since the property is relatively new to us, we had an extension office rep come out last spring and take soil samples and give us advice. She was very excited about the crab grass, and was assuring us that it is great as a sturdy, nutritious forage. We do plant winter rye annually in the fall, and that seems to take over very well as the crab grass goes dormant. Then we feed a lot of hay for a couple of months, until the winter rye comes back strong around March, and tides the horses over until the crab grass/burmuda comes back.
Maybe an annual planting of winter rye over your existing crab grass can give you the best of both worlds, with less cost and work?

[neversaynever]

[QUOTE=ElementFarm;8820771]
we have quite a bit of crabgrass mixed into our pastures (the balance being orchard and Bermuda). Since the property is relatively new to us, we had an extension office rep come out last spring and take soil samples and give us advice. She was very excited about the crab grass, and was assuring us that it is great as a sturdy, nutritious forage. We do plant winter rye annually in the fall, and that seems to take over very well as the crab grass goes dormant. Then we feed a lot of hay for a couple of months, until the winter rye comes back strong around March, and tides the horses over until the crab grass/burmuda comes back.
Maybe an annual planting of winter rye over your existing crab grass can give you the best of both worlds, with less cost and work?[/QUOTE]

I like the winter/annual rye also. We used Marshal ryegrass, and I think they have new varieties out now. It is easy to overseed, germinates fast, makes a dense stand and is really nice for grazing in early spring. We would broadcast with some oats and wheat for great cool weather grazing - even before the orchard and fescue would start going. The only problem occurs if you have an IR horse. Annual rye tends to be high in sugars and laminitis can be a problem.

[Palm_Beach]

I like crab grass too. The horses don’t graze it down to nothing like they do the cooler season grasses.

[goodhors]

OP, do you fertilize regularly? That can make a difference in grasses surviving well. Further north than you, but how you care for your fields can make a difference in what flourishes or dies out. I fertilize yearly using soil test result to get the proper mix of minerals and nutrients to aid soil in growing mixed pasture. At times having the “right” minerals will make soil a poor growing place for certain weeds or plants so they are much reduced. Adding organic material by spreading bedding on fields is real important to soil you expect to be productive.

As others said, having mixed grazing plants will aid in keeping all season grazing available to the animals. I get a Mare And Foal mixed seed, no fescue in it. I am sure I have some fescue volunteer grass, but I don’t plant it on purpose because we breed for a foal now and again…

Mowing high and often has been my best tool in getting the pastures into good shape. Taller grasses shade out the crabgrass to some extent, reducing the takeover abilities. I don’t usually let the tall grasses go to seed (this year’s drought time was an exception), so they keep putting out more leaves for shading the ground above crabgrass. Mowing also prevents weeds from setting seed for next year, so i have fewer weeds each year. Mowing makes strong roots under plants which then can take stress of hooves, drought, heat. Plants keep producing leaves with deep roots. Often may mean mowing weekly at times, cutting no shorter than 5 inches, not letting it get taller than 8-9 inches or allowing grass to set seed in summer. I will cease mowing here, after Labor Day, to allow length for winter dirt cushion and nibbling. I use pastures in winter to allow more movement and play. Better for good attutude on horses and I can fix any damage in spring. They are only off pastures in spring while bodies change from hay to grazing with timed turnout on new grass. SHORT turnout of 15 minutes for a time period, once daily as grass gets started.

Pastures recover nicely with smoothing to take out rough places, plenty of grazing the rest of the season.

I rough up the ground with disc to open packed clay soil before overseeding, then drag to smooth dirt after. More making lines with disc, not the plowed field look. Lines get air, moisture from rain, down into the soil. Smoothing spreads rough dirt, softens the topsoil from being packed under hard hooves for better cushion to absorb rain instead of sluicing off in downpours. Any bald spots get roughed up seeded, smoothed and then covered with old hay or straw, stall bedding, which covers seed well, holds in moisture to help keep seedlings damp. Seedlings get roots going, are somewhat protected as they grow to and get more mature. Cover is a good use of moldy hay. I run broken up old bales thru the manure spreader which does a great job breaking them up and spreading as seed cover.

Having nice pastures is a bit of work. I would rather have mine grazing and running in fields over buying hay to feed on dry lots. I believe the grass is more nutritious, when fields are well maintained.

We have a variety of horse ages, they all feel good running. Self exercising builds strong bones, learninging where their bodies stop and start for skill in ‘footwork’ they will use in other situations. “You can NOT make a 90* turn at full speed on mud or wet grass! You WILL fall down!” Only happens once. They check footing after that. They will go forward even with dirt or mud in their face to catch the horse ahead, no quitters. You can’t buy training like that, they have to experience it, be self taught to learn it best. Pastures here are meant to be used by the horses. Not going for a postcard farm look, though fields do look good with bay horses out there on grass!

We have not seeded with the drill, tractor is too small. The rental drill requires you to spray and kill pasture grasses before using it. I have tough pasture, good turf, not willing to kill it all off to use the drill. Then having to wait MONTHS before using the field is not realistic on our small property. Too many horses being rotated, I need all my fields.

[kcmel]

Thanks all. Great information.

When do you plant the winter rye? I wonder if that would work this far north? When would they be able to go out on it? What is the best way to seed it?

[ElementFarm]

we have winter rye planted in Oct. it gets planted in rows, and the horses continue to turnout in the field and graze the other grasses while the winter rye starts to come up. they have the rye to nibble on in Nov/Dec while the other grass is dormant. Then they get hay until March or so when the winter rye comes up strong, and that holds them over until the regular grass makes its comeback.
–I think we pay about $100/150 an acre for a single pass. I think ours is drill seeded but I’ve also seen it just spread on top.

Your local extension office should be able to recommend good cooler-weather grass choices for your area, and usually will come out take soil samples and make recommendations, all for free.