Re-use soiled mini-flake bedding?

[BlueDrifter]

I moved my horse to a larger paddock with shelter at one end. Sheltered end is matted and I am using mini-flakes for the first time.

I usually do “deep litter” and do not remove pee spot daily. For the most part it sinks to the top of the mat, but if need be, I rake clean mini-flakes over the spot. Once a week, I remove the pee “cake” and rebed.

My neighbor says she removes the pee daily and tosses it out in the unsheltered part of the paddock. Says the pee evaporates and does not smell, and it adds bedding to paddock.

I have to admit it her paddock does not smell, and with our recent huge rains, it did not get slick/mushy, either. Her outer paddock now has about 4 inches deep – I don’t know if she ever removes it from there.

Anyone else use mini-flakes this way, and not dispose of them in the manure pile?

[goodhors]

I am going to say that throwing bedding on paddock dirt is going to eventually cause slippery mud. Maybe not next week, but over time, more bedding added, you will get nasty mud. The bedding is organic, starts breaking down when kept moist, exposed to the elements, tries to become dirt. Organic materials like to return to their basics to enrich the soil.

So I think you will be happier in the long run, by staying with your present, weekly pee spot removal, dumping that onto the manure pile or spreading it on fields. Turning your paddock footing into mud is a bad idea. Sometimes “new ideas” may not be the best choice for your horse keeping setup.

[SummerRose]

Decomposing sawdust leaches a lot of nitrogen from soil so I wouldn’t dump raw sawdust anywhere that I may eventually want to grow grass. Used sawdust can be spread on pastures, but it is best to do it when it has been composted and/or is well fortified with lots of manure and maybe some lime, depending on the soil.

And even if it’s in a sacrifice area there’s the slick, deep mud factor @goodhors mentioned.

Personally, I’d stick with composting it before spreading it.

[Scribbler]

I have mixed bagged shavings with hog fuel (cedar mulch) paddocks but would not throw it on dirt or gravel as that will make a mess.

[Janet]

I don’t know anything about “miniflake”, but shavings in general are very absorbent. That means they will initially soak up the moisture in the mud. But then they will hold onto it after the mud dries out. Think of it as being like a lot of tiny sponges.

[StormyDay]

I would say that’s probably a terrible idea.
I know if I did that the shavings would break down into dust that would blow all around and be gross in the summer.
But maybe your climate is different than mine.

Also, it may not smell now, but if it ever got dug up it might smell like a cats litter box that hadn’t been cleaned in a decade.

[BlueDrifter]

I hear you guys on the mud issue. That was my expectation, too.

I am in SoCal, so normally we do not have mud, except when it rains. We had the hardest rain in years last month, and surprisingly, her paddock did not get slippery or muddy or squishy. She raked it and it dried out and fluffed right back into mini-flakes. It looked better than the ones with plain dirt. No trenching was needed.

I thought maybe there was something special about mini-flakes. Basically, they look like decomposed wood pellets and seem to have the same absorbancy.

I’ll ask her if I can see what condition the paddock is in when you rake away the top layers.

I am leery about doing it because I know you DO get mud with regular shavings.

[Djones]

This is a poor practice. The ground will get weird and slippery and spongy.

[goodhors]

So her equines do not walk on the discarded sawdust? If not, the sawdust is not getting into the soil with hooves. That could be the “difference” between what you see and our past results. No mixing of sawdust and soil to get the wood decomposing. Sawdust fully dries in sun and wind when there is no rain.

The hog fuel filler over mud, is worked into soil as horses tromp over it. Still better than mud alone so hooves and legs can stay drier. Many who use hog fuel go back later and scrape off the messy mud to get back to firm footing. With my spreading sawdust bedding on my pastures, the thin layer is a help in building soil in my wetter location. Food for the micro organisms. Sawdust never really gets totally dry very long here, holds water to keep soil underneath it damp. Benefits to my pasture, not to my hard used paddocks where I want firm footing. Sawdust does NOT leach out Nitrogen while decomposing, but it does take Nitrogen “out of circulation” for a bit of time. Other plants can’t use that Nitrogen until sawdust is finally broken down. Nitrogen never really leaves, just not usable for a while. My fertilizer guy explained the process to me while reading my soil tests that showed plenty of Nitrogen. We “helped” the pasture plants access Nitrogen easier with adding lime to my fertilizer mix. .

[BlueDrifter]

It is just one horse, but it definitely walks on the discarded sawdust. Our stalls tend to be 24x48 with the first 12x24 matted and bedded.

But you might be on to something – we don’t get much rain, and the base footing at this barn is somewhat sandy and drains well.

I definitely know what folks are saying about shavings getting slippery and retaining water in the mud, it has happened to me with shavings, but since it didn’t happen at this new barn I was attributing it to the mini-flakes – and maybe it is just the sandier footing.

We are supposed to get rain this week, so I will have a chance to check it out more thoroughly.

I have trouble believing that the urine completely evaporates from the sawdust though – even when perfectly dried out. Does that seem logical?

[Scribbler]

Urine washes out and also breaks down. Any paddock has urine spots in dirt sand or grass.

I like my hogfuel runout paddock but here in the PNW any paddock will be a mess sand hogfuel gravel crusher whatever if the underlying drainage is not taken care of. Very often that requires deep French drains, river rock and landscape cloth under the hogfuel or sand etc. Tossing anything into mud is a recipe for disaster.

[fordtraktor]

While this is not something that could ever work in my region, I think the reason why it is working for your friend is: SoCal. Having horses in a desert-like environment is very different than that most of us are dealing with.

When I was in Egypt, the horses were basically kept on sand and poop was burned nightly. It has been working there for thousands of years….

I would throw most of my Midwest assumptions about horse care aside and experiment/talk to a lot of locals.

[carman_liz]

Me! !! I do this, especially in the summer when pony’s lot needs to stay somewhat grass free. The wet shavings kill some grass, breakdown, and save my muck tubs and manure pile some space hehehe.

I also take the hay they have decided not to eat after a few days of fluffing the hay feeder back up and them picking at it, dump the old hay and spread it around the dry/mud lots. I try to use it mainly where they walk to and from the water trough and pastures. Does it make a mess? The sawdust shavings part not really, it breaks down and I think helps with drying out the lots during the raining season and i hibitting grass growth in the summer for fatty mcfatfat pony. The hay yes, it starts to breakdown, they grind in into the dirt, poop on it, it is ugly for sure right now.

BUT…come a dry day…(plleeaassee soon its rained for a week straight, kids are off school tomorrow because of flooding!!) I will repick their lots, and spread with a rake, sometimes with my rock rake if it is still too wet lol, the hay back out to dry. In the summer or hell, yes even this time of yr when it is dry enough, I will hook the little chain harrow to my riding mower and chop up and drag the old hay out so it spreads out more. Makes their lots look weird
and my neighbors wonder wth the crazy horse lady is doing on a mower in winter? But I would rather have them walking on old hay with some traction, then slipping and busting a tendon in the mud.

Knock on wood I did not just jinx it with the rain we have had though!!!

[MissAriel]

Yes. It is possible in SoCal, where rain is rare. I’m doing like your friend. The key is having that 4 inch layer, otherwise you are likely to see some slick areas as others have mentioned.

[trubandloki]

I love that this thread just proves how much climate matters to various horse keeping things.

I work very hard to keep organic material out of my dry lot. Raking up loose hay, picking manure daily, etc. Otherwise I end up with a mud pit that takes forever to dry.

[BlueDrifter]

She does have a 4 inch+ layer.

I still haven’t tried it. Part of me wants the outside of his pen to remain a little harder, and part of me still wants to see a big rain. Might need to wait til next year for that!

If you keep tossing the wet mini-flakes into the paddock – doesn’t it eventually build up past 4 inches. I think it is like adding two bags a week into the paddock, and over a year, I think that might get pretty deep?

[BlueDrifter]

I know! I used to think I should take shoes off in the winter – because that is what the east coast seems to do – failing to realize that here in SoCal, I needed shoes year round as our trails are rocky. Took me one winter to figure that out, lol

[Texarkana]

Where I live, that would be a recipe for knee-deep, boot-sucking mud after awhile. But my climate and soil are very different than yours.

But, you can dry shavings, even urine-soaked ones, and re-use them. A woman I used to work for was fastidious about making us do it. Personally, I find it waaaay too time consuming and a bit gross.

[Buster]

I don’t understand why folks are saying wet shavings makes mud, wet DIRT makes mud, lol! Now, if you use regular flake shavings in outdoor pens, I’m not crazy about how that goes. It tends to get mucky and takes longer to dry. Regardless, in the southern CA climate, any type of shavings will make your dirt (unless we’re talking about sand/DG) less slippery/slick, not more so. I do exactly as your friend does, mini-flake/wood pellets and then throw the pee spots out to dry. My pen is the best one on the property. Now, having said all that, sand is best when it’s super rainy, it just makes me a tad nervous if it’s going to be where your horse eats. YMMV.

[Texarkana]

@Buster

I don’t understand why folks are saying wet shavings makes mud, wet DIRT makes mud, lol!

Any organic material you add to your soil will eventually turn into more soil.

If you live in a climate with a lot of rainfall and already have thick clay, silt, or loam topsoil, adding shavings is just contributing to that mud-prone topsoil layer. You can see an increase in the depth of mud after a single season as the shavings practically dissolve in all the muck.

Now, if you live somewhere with rocky or sandy soil, your drainage is probably good and you have no competing organic layer to contend with. The shavings will decompose more slowly and even when they do decompose, it will take years before you get enough organic matter built up to make a serious mud problem.