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reactive horse getting more reactive?

Horse Care
#1

I’ve posted about my mare before…7yo home bread Dutch mare. Comes from a mare line that runs a bit hot. I had given her a few months off to give both of us a break to regroup. Back to riding her again…trying CBD and another vet prescribed calming med. Have done every bit of work up possible (vet with nuclear scans, etc…ulcer treatments, regumate, saddle, teeth, nutrition consult/overhaul, etc. etc.).

My question is more what else can trigger a horse to become excessively reactive? Or, instead of being desensitized with exposure, they become more sensitized to the point of not being aware of their own safety/well-being?

A few weeks ago, coming in from the field she reared…windy day, my dad was leading her (he did nothing wrong…she just had a moment and spooked)…she lost her balance, flipped over and took out 3 sections of fence (which probably needed some replacing anyway). Luckily only a minor scratch. That’s what earned her some vet prescribed drugs…apparently CBD wasn’t doing much.

This past week, the pickers came to pick the blueberry farm next to us…mind you she is a minimum of several hundred feet away from the edge of the field. From her stall she can see the field (so can all the horses). She refused to eat and nearly came through the stall wall (and fell down in the stall) from spinning and freaking out. I moved her to a stall where she can’t see them…she wouldn’t eat there as she was afraid of the bucket and stall door opening. Mind you it is the same bucket and door that is in her stall. Outside she was running and head up snorting at the pickers in the field…other horses ignored her and were grazing.

Every other horse on the farm is being totally quiet and could care less. Not her. Attempts to desensitize make her get more wound up and more spooky (let’s assume for the sake of argument, that there is not an issue in the basic training process…though I am sure I could do more, I am not a green owner and she is by far not my first youngster). But, when I try to expose her more (including groundwork)…it seriously becomes a safety issue (for both of us), as she doesn’t stay aware of her own safety (she would freak out and fall off a cliff, if we lived someplace that wasn’t flat!). It’s like she panics blindly…and often for no predictable reason.

I am nearly at my wits end…she is otherwise a lovely horse. I can’t sell her as 1) I worry she would hurt someone, and 2) I won’t let her get bounced around and mistreated. I can’t breed her as we know it’s a hot line…and why breed that (and she would probably freak out during a delivery)? I can ride her with vet meds for right now…but I am doubting whether we will ever be able to come off meds (also expensive), much less show.

The hard part is she is a sweetheart…she nickers, comes right up to me, loves grooming (just don’t surprise her), licks me non-stop. There is no meanness to her…just panic attacks that get worse, not better. I do love her…except when she has her panic attacks.

Any possible things I am missing…do horses this reactive ever come around? Wet saddle pads and ground work don’t seem to impact her reactions much (helps a little, but not a solution). Behavior is the same no matter who is handling her. I am happy to keep trying things as I have already invested a lot of time and money…so it’s hard to know if I need to call it quits with trying to get her to get it together.
Thanks for any thoughts.

#2

Following with interest.

Most commonly I have known owners/trainers to send a horse this difficult to a “cowboy” - someone who specializes in addressing these kinds of issues using Warwick Schiller or Clinton Anderson-type groundwork/philosophies to try to get the horse to stop and think rather than panic. If you post your general area you may get some suggestions for names to contact.

Separately, I read more and more folks discovering neuro and cervical arthritis issues that manifest as behavioral. Perhaps see a specialist as a second opinion to the vet work you’ve already done?

2 Likes
#3

The first two things that popped into my mind were either vision problems or Lyme disease. I had a mare with Lyme and she acted weirdly spooky and also somewhat neuro.
Have you had her vision checked?

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#4

Given that she’s falling down with her reactive episodes, I’d really want to rule out some sort of neurological issue like EPM or progressive c spine arthritis. You don’t list a neuro exam in your workups…has she had one? Has she had one recently?

Another thing to rule out would be vision issues. Has she been seen by a veterinary opthalmologist? Eyeballs are one of those things where you really need a specialist, once you get past the basics.

Horses don’t like to fall…that she’s freaking out to the point that she loses her footing is beyond “reactive.” Sounds like you’ve explored a lot of things! But it may be time to run through the list again, given that she’s escalated. Although, sometimes we just don’t understand why. Maybe something is just miswired in the brain and she’s on the extreme end of a flight or flight response all the time. Horses that truly just have a screw loose aren’t common, but they do exist :frowning:

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#5

We have explored a lot…our vet looked at her eyes a while ago, but we did not have a specialist, so that might be well worth doing.

I’ve been starting to wonder neuro because of the extreme behaviors with no other cause. She does have some mild intermittent lameness that usually can’t even be blocked, with a lot of tightness (we did a diet change in case of PSSM). She’s never had a full true neuro workup as she doesn’t “seem” neurological (though we did rule out kissing spine/wobbler). But this rear up and fall down thing is new. I mean behavior can be strange that every day she puts her head down in the halter quietly, no hint of an issue…then randomly you go to put the halter on and she flings backwards in a panic, eyes popped out of her head. I’ve raised her from the minute she was born, so there is absolutely no reason for that…and it is completely random and unexpected. Maybe I do need to have her head examined for a brain tumor! Or do a Lyme workup again, as that is a major issue in the area.

1 Like
#6

@Critter I could have written a lot of your post.

I have an AWS-registered “home-bred” of Selle Francais breeding, and I went through a lot of the same stuff you’re describing.

I’ve started writing this post several times, but it just gets soooo long-winded when I try to give the backstory. If you’d like me to share our saga via PM, I’d be more than happy to so I can spare the rest of the world all the minutia.

But offering encouragement: I was in your same shoes for many years. My mare ended up getting a hiatus in work from about 8 to 12 years of age because things had escalated to such a bad place and I was scared of getting seriously hurt.

At 12, we made some major changes. A new trainer. New tack. A new ability to understand where this reactivity was coming from. We went back to work. For her 12 and 13 year old years, I kept waiting for her to revert to old ways. While we had a couple bumps in the road, she never reverted to her previous Jeckyll and Hyde self. Now she’s 14 and I finally believe that is all in our past. :yes:

3 Likes
#7

I really think she has a medical issue that you haven’t found yet. From what you describe it is way more than just a reactive horse or bloodlines. I hope you can find the answer as she sounds like a darling otherwise.

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#8

Lyme is certainly an easy box to check!

A neuro exam is also so worthwhile. There are quite a few of us here who have had horses with odd lameness that’s been difficult to pin down only to finally get to a neuro diagnosis. Even if you’ve cleared the neck, something progressive might be happening, or perhaps EPM? Have you ever explored that avenue?

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#9

With my horse, there never was a medical issue that we could find. I didn’t go quite as far as the OP with nuclear scans or anything, but we certainly checked all the usual culprits multiple times.

I always knew my horse was sensitive, but what it took me forever to figure out was that my mare is a major complainer. If I don’t acknowledge her complaint, she goes into spooky/reactive/unpredictable mode. She starts reacting, then she just gets herself worked up in a tizzy and loses all sense of self preservation. Uncomfortable (to her) tack would make her blow her lid, well before she would ever show any signs of soreness or problem from it. She is also incredibly particular about the stupidest little things, like saddle pads, girths, and boots. It took me 12 years to realize that half of her bolting, bucking, and spooking was because of her aversion to jointed snaffles. It also took that long to realize I get similar reactions if the saddle is just a smidge narrow on her. It took me 13 years to realize that she will throw herself to the ground in a temper tantrum if I put fleece-lined boots on her legs or too wide a girth. And if she’s feeling sore or sick in the slightest, she’s going to try to tell you by acting a fool.

It sounds completely ridiculous when I try to explain it. It defied my logic for over a decade, so I don’t expect other people to buy into it immediately, either. It also sounds like I have to cater to her whims-- I don’t. But I do have to listen, because I’ve learned that being an overly reactive spaz is actually not her “normal.” When she gets that way, I have to stop and ask myself what is wrong.

#10

Lyme and EPM can both cause this sort of overreaction. I had one turn into an explosive disaster overnight. Marquis fixed her within a week.

If it isn’t that, I’d try a program that doesn’t focus on desensitizing, but rather on teaching the horse coping skills. My personal favorite is Tristan Tucker. I’m lucky that he comes to the area and I’ve audited clinics, but I believe most of his stuff is online.

#11

It almost sounds like she is hallucinating somehow. I know that sounds bizarre. But if a human did this, that is what my first thought would be. I would seriously consider checking her for a brain tumor. If it is a clean exam, you can rule that out. I did not see you post about what feed/meds/suppliments she is on, but if there are two things that are working together in a bad way, this can also cause a serious problem (again, thinking back to humans that suddenly display bizarre behaviour). Have you considered placing her in a situation where she is not ridden or handled at all, simply let to run loose in a pasture for a while to see how that might work out?
Also, I would seriously consider sending her to one of the vet schools for observation and testing, if you haven’t already. Not knocking your vet, but I have heard and personally withnessed vets in the NC State vet center do amazing things. They simply have more tools and cutting edge research at their disposal.
I wish you the best.

2 Likes
#12

I had a spooky horse with an inoperable bone chip. I could tell how much pain he was in by how spooky he was. So I would be looking at health first.

I now have a horse who tends to anxiety. I bumped into a Warwick Schiller video in which he talks about (human) panic attacks and the cognitive behavioral therapy used to help the person subject to panic to calm themselves. He transposes the idea to horses and suggests inducing mild anxiety and helping the horse learn to calm themselves and let go of the anxiety. I spent the winter working on this with my anxious horse and I have been stunned by how much of a difference it has made.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹This horse has had issues dealing with apparently minor tack, weather, heaven knows what concerns as well.

1 Like
#13

I had a mare that we suspect had some sort of ovary cyst or tumor. Regumate was the only thing that worked, otherwise she’d work herself into a frenzy and quit eating for days.

#14

Have you tried supplementing magnesium? I also assume she is on no grain.

#15

Chronic pain and/or sleep issues would be my top considerations. Have you tried a trial of bute and/or gabapentin? (Gabapentin will also make a horse sleepy though).

I have a gelding who would suddenly over-react to little things: he turned out to have formerly broken his C2. As it heals, the calcification pinched the spinal cord and make him feel unsettled.

You can train a horse to cope with chronic pain and learn better reactions, but probably better to resolve the underlying issue first/concurrently.

#16

What’s her entire diet? Include amounts too :slight_smile: How long has she been on the PSSM-appropriate diet?

Have you ever done bloodwork for Vit E and selenium? All that body tightness could be caused by 1 or both of those.

Someone here ended up finding their increasingly reactive horse had the C6/C7 malformation, and using his head/neck just right resulted in shooting pain which of course made him react inappropriately to whatever caused him to “jerk” his head in the first place. As in - she’d be riding and he’d suddenly turn his head in reaction to a bird in the tree, but that caused the bolt of pain and he’d panic and spook hard. So, similar to what CHT described.

I definitely agree that because of this, and the mild intermittent lameness would have me ruling out Lyme and EPM, just as fast as you can. For EPM testing, you want the Multiplex Sn Antibody Detection, or the Peptide SAG ELISA test which are SAG 1,5,6 tests. You do not want just a spinal tap, and you don’t want any test that looks at SAG 2,3,4.
http://epmhorse.org/Diagnosis/Tests.htm

#17

I do think there is something medical…which is why I have persisted so long and put so much money into trying to stick it out. Plus I really do adore her when she is being “normal”…I don’t ever expect her to plod around like an old lesson horse…I just would like to remove the explosions and panic attacks.

We did a full nutrition consult with a PhD…she is on a small amount of ration balancer (which has more than she needs with magnesium…prior to the switch she had been on a Mag supp). Plus a GI supp that also balances the hind gut, flax for omegas, salt…she’s been on this for 4-5 months. She looks like a million dollars…the nutrition switch helped in many ways, but not with behavior. Selenium was normal, vitamin E a tiny bit low…corrected now with the diet (no behavior change).

Bute trial does nothing. Regumate helps a little, but not significantly enough. Ovaries are normal (work up by a top repro vet at the university).

Spine is picture perfect…not even any questionable areas along the entire length. Not that she might not have a soft tissue/nerve pinch, but certainly nothing even remotely suspect.

My vet has seen her, but she has also been to the University of Penn for several consults with specialists…so we have had multiple vets input…so far they scratch their heads. Her behaviors are the same there as they are at home…they’ve made note of the same over reactions.

@Texarkana you’ve definitely described my mare. Woof boots are fine but sports meds boots cause her to freak and break cross ties. I can clip her legs and chest without a halter on yet don’t go anywhere near her face. A fleece girth is fine, but a leather girth will cause a freak-out. I also don’t coddle her…but I have learned to pick my battles at this point. Some things you can eventually get her to accept (months of work)…like the sports med boots and then she will randomly have a melt down after you thought it was all solved.

We’ve done several stints of several months off completely, just turnout. But she will have a melt down about being left out…she likes to be out, then she likes to come in! She actually craves attention. But time off from work doesn’t change behaviors either. She is worse in the winter (cold and wind are a very bad combo for her)…end of summer is better…but again, doesn’t stop the random explosions and spookiness, just not as hyped up in general.

The vet prescribed med is Trazodone (an antidepressant that increases serotonin), which has made me feel safe enough to ride her again…it has helped more than anything else we’ve tried. The explosions are less intense and less often, but still there.

I think the Lymes and EPM are a good and relatively easy thing to check. I’m at the point that maybe they can CT scan for a brain tumor (not sure I want to find out what that costs).

#18

I think you’d need an MRI of the head to really rule out a brain tumor. A CT might be interesting to evaluate for bony structural issues?

CHT mentioned gabapentin, and that’s another fairly easy box to check. It’s very effective at treating nerve pain. A month of it wouldn’t be overly costly (I don’t think, anyway, it’s been several years since I had one on it!) and could certainly provide some direction if it works.

When you cleared the spine, did you do a myelogram? Or just rads?

#19

MRI would show a better picture…but I think most equine MRI are only set up for legs. CT would still show tumors, but maybe a bit less defined. UPenn has a mobile CT, so it would be more accessible to getting her scanned if I go that route.

Haven’t done gabapentin with her…have used it with another gelding of mine who had a nerve injury years ago. Great stuff. I don’t know that I would be able to layer it with the trazodone. I think the gabapentin is probably cheaper.

We did not do a myelogram, so yes the clearing the spine is limited by that…but the vets felt there was nothing to justify a doing a myleogram either.

#20

This is an interesting article about skull MRI :slight_smile:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/eve.12039

Has she ever been anesthetized? Maybe I am overly cautious, but I always worry about laying down and then recovering a horse with an unknown issue. It’s so much force in weird ways to position them.

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